What is the lumens scale? Twice the lumens equals twice as bright?

sqchram

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I guess I'll pick this thread up since it was the closest to what I'm wondering about and see if someone can point me in the right direction.

Looking at a Zebralight H50, high output at 120 degree flood is 66 lumens, if I were to stick two Zebralights on the headband, head to head - would the output effectively be like a higher-powered 132 lumen, 120-degree-flood headlamp? :shrug:

Oh, and whats a 'GID' when talking about headlamps - the holder?
 

gcbryan

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I guess I'll pick this thread up since it was the closest to what I'm wondering about and see if someone can point me in the right direction.

Looking at a Zebralight H50, high output at 120 degree flood is 66 lumens, if I were to stick two Zebralights on the headband, head to head - would the output effectively be like a higher-powered 132 lumen, 120-degree-flood headlamp? :shrug:

Oh, and whats a 'GID' when talking about headlamps - the holder?

GID= Glow In the Dark.

Yes, regarding two 66 lumen lights being like one 132 lumen light (as far as I know).
 

zipplet

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Correct but it wont look twice as bright to you (even though it is) due to how our eyes perceive light.
 

Swedpat

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The perception of brightness I have found is tricky and depends on several factors. Sometimes I find that 4 times brightness hardly looks like twice, other time I can think that the twice brightness seems to be twice. But I agree in that the eyes usually don't perceive twice as twice.

According to my experience it will demand at least 30%, often 50% drop of the brightness until I can notice that a the brightness of a light has dropped, when the diminishing is gradually.
Therefore a light may be considered as practically regulated though the brightness drops 10-20%. You will not notice such a small drop without a side-by-side comparison, and also then the perceived difference is very subtle.

Regards, Patric
 

sqchram

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Thanks all.

Yes, I've read a bit about actual brightness vs perceived brightness.

Now entertain this if you would: If I had say 6 x 100 lumen 1 x AA lights with a reflector pattern similar to say the Fenix TK40 - would the overall throw and perceived illumination be the same?

Or are there differences due to say, atmospheric losses where a single (I guess 4 with the TK40), brighter led is more effective than several smaller ones?
 

Swedpat

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Thanks all.

Yes, I've read a bit about actual brightness vs perceived brightness.

Now entertain this if you would: If I had say 6 x 100 lumen 1 x AA lights with a reflector pattern similar to say the Fenix TK40 - would the overall throw and perceived illumination be the same?

Or are there differences due to say, atmospheric losses where a single (I guess 4 with the TK40), brighter led is more effective than several smaller ones?

I would say yes if the lights are placed together. The beams will melt together and you will perceive it like practically one 600lm light.

Regards, Patric
 

C-Beam

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But no matter how you rate the equation, what is "good"? Does a score of 5000 mean it's bright and floody, or dim and throwy?

Sometimes the constituent components tells a better story than anything else.

Something like, "A 6 degree hotspot at 3000 lux with a 45 degree spill at 145 lux with a 70 lumen total". Not as succinct as rating system but that's pretty much all the relevant info except for the color.
 

c0pasetic

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I just found this thread, and it's very informative. I decided to buy a Ray-O-Vac sportsman extreme, mainly because of the 60 hour rating, more than the brightness. I have a tactical light for that. For what it is (and the $21 price tag), it seems sturdy and rather well made imho...except; What I don't get is the difference between 75 lumens on low, and 180 lumens on high. I can't honestly tell much difference, and after reading this thread I am not sure if I should. I get the difference between 1 and 2, but it's a bigger jump between the original math of 220, etc. It's more than twice the lumens, and you have to work to tell that yes it's slightly brighter. I contacted the company and they were happy to take it back, but I don't know enough to know if the light is bad or not. I compared it to some plastic Ray o Vac 70 hour 3 LED lights, and it's noticeably brighter, against the wall, but they were $7 each, lol. If it isn't broken, I have no reason ever to use the high setting (22 hours).
Thanks in advance. (

*runs off to read about the DB light)
 

StarHalo

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What I don't get is the difference between 75 lumens on low, and 180 lumens on high. I can't honestly tell much difference, and after reading this thread I am not sure if I should.

You should be able to see the difference between 75 and 180 lumens, the high setting should look like it's at least a half step brighter than the low to unadjusted eyes. The best way to see the difference between two output settings is outdoors at night - walk around with the 75 lumen setting for a while until you're used to it, then kick in the 180 lumen setting, only then will you see that it really is twice as bright..
 

MojaveMoon07

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Index.jpg


source:
"Perceived Brightness Index"
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?271967-Perceived-Brightness-Index
 

Cypher_Aod

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i have an XM-L light that has two modes, Max and 10%.

not-particularly-accurate testing shows that the light produces roughly 100 lumens on 10% and 800 lumens on 100%. i can definitely attest that the percieved brightness change from low to high is only a three or four times increase :)
 

sk8brdkd

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is there any way to figure out how many lumens an led flashlight has? i bought a led flashlight that has 51 led's -- it's a very bright flashlight but, am looking to buy a flashlight for a friend and i can't seem to figure out how to differenciate btwn led brightness and lumen brightness -- any ideas?
 

menoceros

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You have received many good answers to your question. I would add one more observation, confirming what the other members are telling you.

I have one light that has a variable output from 6 to 145 lumens. As you increase the lumens on this light, it is very noticable at first as you move up from 6 lumens, at about the 80 lumen level, the change becomes less apparent.

This just confirms what the others have said. Going from 80 to 145 is not as dramatic as from 6 to 80.
 

yifu

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is there any way to figure out how many lumens an led flashlight has? i bought a led flashlight that has 51 led's -- it's a very bright flashlight but, am looking to buy a flashlight for a friend and i can't seem to figure out how to differenciate btwn led brightness and lumen brightness -- any ideas?
A "51 LED" flashlight is most likely using 5mm LEDs. Cheap 5mm LEDs produce around 2-3 lumens while the best ones produce 10 lumens, however 51 premium 5mm LEDs cost quite a bit so i suspect it would be using the cheaper ones, thus it should give about 100 out the front lumens-no very bright for flashoholic standards, since a AAA light produces nearly as much light, and probably better quality light as well.
 

emc.sw.usn.ret

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For the layman/novice flashaholic:

There are a bunch of different variables that play into "brightness", but keeping it in layman's terms, you can boil it down to the beam profile of the light and percentages.

The beam profile (how the light looks on a white wall) can make a light seem much brighter or dimmer depending on how it's arranged. A good way to visualize this is a garden hose: Let's say you turn on your garden hose spigot to 25%, and holding the hose in your hand you just let the water fall freely from the nozzle. Then you put your thumb over the nozzle - now the pressurized water streams far out and away rapidly. In which instance was there a greater amount of water? The answer is of course that there was the same amount/flow of water for both examples, the spigot was always at 25%, you merely changed how it came out of the nozzle. Conceptually, this works with light also; you can let light flow out broadly in a nearby flood, or you can compact it into a far-throwing narrow stream - the stream can seem brighter to the eye just because it goes farther and/or has a more intense beam profile.

This matters in flashlights because a light that's a "thrower" will always seem brighter than a "flooder". A good example would be if you had a Maglite that was perfectly focused for a nice, intense hotspot. You note how bright this looks on a white wall, then remove the head from the Mag entirely and shine it at the wall again - now the wall is completely dim. In which configuration did the Mag output more lumens? Again, it was the same, the light bulb put out the exact same amount of light for each test.

So now that we know the eye can be easily fooled just by how a flashlight throws light, we must devise a way to gauge *total output*, not just the output in one small area. This test is called ceiling bounce.

When you shine a flashlight at the ceiling of a darkened room, the room as you see it is now lit only by the *total output* of that light - you've removed the element of beam profile and can now see, at least roughly, how much light is being emitted. The test goes something like this; Standing in a pitch black room with two flashlights you want to compare, you shine the first light at the ceiling - you have to shine it in such a way that you can't see the end of the flashlight itself or the beam profile, so pointing it up next to your ear works nicely. Now you're seeing the room lit by the total output of that light. Next, close your eyes, turn off or cover light one and switch to light two, and open your eyes - is the room brighter or dimmer? The answer will reveal which light has more *lumens* regardless of *throw*. (This method works very quickly and decisively when the two lights are more than 20% disparate, below that and you may need to view the room for a full minute or so and then switch lights to catch the tiny discrepancies.)

And speaking of percentages, they're something you have to take into consideration when looking a lumen numbers. Your 220 vs 280 example can be used here - Let's say you're outdoors on a moonless night, and you turn on a 220 lumen light; it will appear very bright and you'll be able to light your way easily. So then you increase your light output to 280 lumens, that's just a little bit brighter, enough that you notice a marginal difference. But here's the kicker - let's say in the same situation, you instead have only a 1 lumen keychain light; on fully-dark adjusted eyes, this is actually "about right" for getting around, and you can navigate fine. But then you increase your light output to 2 lumens, and WOW, that's much brighter, what a difference! Why is 1 vs 2 such a profound difference over 220 vs 280? Percentages - 280 is only 27% brighter than 220, so that's a small difference. But 2 is TWICE/100% over 1, so there's literally twice as much light. Tiny number differences make big perceived differences at the low end of the scale, but not at all on the upper end.

Thank you for the illuminating (sorry) and fairly brilliant (sorry again) reply to the question. I'm new to the forum but definitely qualify as having a serious flashlight fetish, to put it mildly. I thoroughly enjoyed reading your reply.
 

StarHalo

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Thank you for the illuminating (sorry) and fairly brilliant (sorry again) reply to the question. I'm new to the forum but definitely qualify as having a serious flashlight fetish, to put it mildly. I thoroughly enjoyed reading your reply.

Welcome to the party :party:

Feel free to ask questions, we're here to help.
 
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