What lamp for the Leef 3x18650s?
- Thread starter cfromc
- Start date
Help Support Candle Power Flashlight Forum
kakster
Flashlight Enthusiast
The 12 volt Surefire M4 lamps, MN60 and MN61 should work.
defusion
Enlightened
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2007
- Messages
- 459
None resonable options.
Only options are M4 bulbs, which are rated for 12v, but startup voltage of 3 li-ions will be higher (high instaflash risk)
The best way i can imagine is having the battery charger cut off at 3.8v per battery or something like that, so you would need one of those fancy chargers.
Only options are M4 bulbs, which are rated for 12v, but startup voltage of 3 li-ions will be higher (high instaflash risk)
The best way i can imagine is having the battery charger cut off at 3.8v per battery or something like that, so you would need one of those fancy chargers.
nzgunnie
Enlightened
I believe you can run an WA1185(?) in a KT adapter that I think FM makes. Someone else may know more.
mdocod
Flashaholic
The WA1185 with the adapter is the best option I know of, the MN60 is being pushed REALLY hard in that config, and the MN61 is being pushed so hard I'm not even sure if it would survive at all. This is the reason I am hoping LumensFactory will come out with an M series 13V lamp for these types of configurations... it could also be used in an M6 with 6 RCR123s.
jumpstat
Flashlight Enthusiast
Why not PM Leef himself? I'm sure he'd gladly help you out. 
Spirit
Newly Enlightened
I don't post on CPF, as usually by the time I get to a post I can relate to, everything useful has been said...
I've got a Leef 3 x 18650 body, running AW cells and driving a MN61 in a SF turbo head. I built it up for an experiment to get a long running, rugged, bright light. Something I could rely on for use in the Mountains.
Well it works and it sure is bright - the same as my M6 - so 500 lumens+ out the front!!! Current draw is 2.8A on fresh cells, straight off the charger at 4.2v. No messing here with rested cells!
I've been running it for a few weeks now, with no blown LA yet. I tend to use the light for constant on periods of 10 - 20 minutes at a time and I get a runtime of 40 minutes to 45 minutes, which is just fine!
I've tried running a MN60 as well and this works really well also. Noticably brighter than a MN16, 1.7A current draw and a runtime of 70 minutes...
Both set-ups are really white, not suprising they are a bit overdriven! But these Surefire LA are tough...
I'm quite happy to rely on the light for extended running, in the high mountains at night. Something I would never do with a ROP or a MAG85.
Hope this helps.
By the way, I really want Lumens Factory to make a 700 Lumen 13V M-series compatible LA as well. In an M6 or my 3x18650, or better still in a up and coming Leef 3 x 'C cell' M series body, it will be a stunning set-up - between the MN60 and MN61 and with 1 hour+ runtime - 1.5 hours with C-cells.
Come on Mark@LF you know it makes sense!
I've got a Leef 3 x 18650 body, running AW cells and driving a MN61 in a SF turbo head. I built it up for an experiment to get a long running, rugged, bright light. Something I could rely on for use in the Mountains.
Well it works and it sure is bright - the same as my M6 - so 500 lumens+ out the front!!! Current draw is 2.8A on fresh cells, straight off the charger at 4.2v. No messing here with rested cells!
I've been running it for a few weeks now, with no blown LA yet. I tend to use the light for constant on periods of 10 - 20 minutes at a time and I get a runtime of 40 minutes to 45 minutes, which is just fine!
I've tried running a MN60 as well and this works really well also. Noticably brighter than a MN16, 1.7A current draw and a runtime of 70 minutes...
Both set-ups are really white, not suprising they are a bit overdriven! But these Surefire LA are tough...
I'm quite happy to rely on the light for extended running, in the high mountains at night. Something I would never do with a ROP or a MAG85.
Hope this helps.
By the way, I really want Lumens Factory to make a 700 Lumen 13V M-series compatible LA as well. In an M6 or my 3x18650, or better still in a up and coming Leef 3 x 'C cell' M series body, it will be a stunning set-up - between the MN60 and MN61 and with 1 hour+ runtime - 1.5 hours with C-cells.
Come on Mark@LF you know it makes sense!
mdocod
Flashaholic
hehe, that's great to hear. I can tell ya that MN61 is being pushed really hard on that setup.
it has been measured to run about 2.5A on primaries, and like you say, 2.8+A on li-ions.
from what I can figure, it's about a 9V, 2.5A, 22.5W, 560 B-lu, bulb on primaries. On Li-Ion, the current re-rate formula suggests it's seeing about 11.1V. So 11.1V, 2.85A, 31.5W, ~1150 B-Lu @~3475K. 750 torch lumens, so yes, it would be at least as bright as an M6 on primaries. I'm not sure how much life the SF M series lamps are truly rated for, But At these drive levels, I guesstimate 5-10 hours re-rated life. Obviously, it only sees these drive levels for the first few minutes, then it settles down as the cells deplete some, so maybe 15+ hours is pretty possible with this setup.
it has been measured to run about 2.5A on primaries, and like you say, 2.8+A on li-ions.
from what I can figure, it's about a 9V, 2.5A, 22.5W, 560 B-lu, bulb on primaries. On Li-Ion, the current re-rate formula suggests it's seeing about 11.1V. So 11.1V, 2.85A, 31.5W, ~1150 B-Lu @~3475K. 750 torch lumens, so yes, it would be at least as bright as an M6 on primaries. I'm not sure how much life the SF M series lamps are truly rated for, But At these drive levels, I guesstimate 5-10 hours re-rated life. Obviously, it only sees these drive levels for the first few minutes, then it settles down as the cells deplete some, so maybe 15+ hours is pretty possible with this setup.
Spirit
Newly Enlightened
If I get chance tonight I'll lash up some leads and measure the Vbulb on freshly charged cells and on 4 x 123s. It might fill in some more lamp data for you.
I'm logging bulb life, so if I see 10 hours, I'll be very happy. I've had way over 20 hours on a old MN61 running on primaries.
I'm logging bulb life, so if I see 10 hours, I'll be very happy. I've had way over 20 hours on a old MN61 running on primaries.
Spirit
Newly Enlightened
Some MN61 numbers...
Vbatt unloaded -> Vbulb loaded
3x 18650 fresh off the charger: 12.6V -> 10.0V @ 2.8A. A sag of 2.6V
3x 18650 after 10 minutes running : 11.7V -> 9.4V @ 2.8A. A sag of 2.3V
4x Brand new Surefire CR123: 12.3V -> 8.2V @ 2.5A, batteries only recover to 11.9 after first use. A sag under load of 3.7V
So the Li-ions hold up their terminal voltage under load better than the Primaries, but we all knew that... And the MN61 is being overdriven, by 1.2 - 1.8V.
Mdocod, do you think the soon to be released Lumens Factory EO-M4 will be able to handle this overdrive?
Hope this helps
Vbatt unloaded -> Vbulb loaded
3x 18650 fresh off the charger: 12.6V -> 10.0V @ 2.8A. A sag of 2.6V
3x 18650 after 10 minutes running : 11.7V -> 9.4V @ 2.8A. A sag of 2.3V
4x Brand new Surefire CR123: 12.3V -> 8.2V @ 2.5A, batteries only recover to 11.9 after first use. A sag under load of 3.7V
So the Li-ions hold up their terminal voltage under load better than the Primaries, but we all knew that... And the MN61 is being overdriven, by 1.2 - 1.8V.
Mdocod, do you think the soon to be released Lumens Factory EO-M4 will be able to handle this overdrive?
Hope this helps
mdocod
Flashaholic
hard to say. I'm suprised to these these voltage numbers, I would have expected to see higher than that... based on the results of Silverfoxes tests on CR123s and various li-ion cells. maybe there is a lot of resistance in switches and connections between cells. I wouldn't expect that much drop.
Your results reveal that the CR123s are delivering about 2.05V under a 2.5A load, silverfox's tests come up with more like 2.2V....
Your results reveal that the 18650s are deliverying about 3.33V under a 2.8A load, silverfox's tests show lots of cells that hold over 3.7V into 3 amp.
So I guess it's all in the resistance.
with those numbers in mind:
primaries: 20.5W, ~500B-lu, ~25lm/w, ~325 torch lumen
li-ion: 28W: ~1000B-Lu ~36lm/w, ~650 torch lumen
CCT and life numbers probably about the same as I estimated previously.
Your results reveal that the CR123s are delivering about 2.05V under a 2.5A load, silverfox's tests come up with more like 2.2V....
Your results reveal that the 18650s are deliverying about 3.33V under a 2.8A load, silverfox's tests show lots of cells that hold over 3.7V into 3 amp.
So I guess it's all in the resistance.
with those numbers in mind:
primaries: 20.5W, ~500B-lu, ~25lm/w, ~325 torch lumen
li-ion: 28W: ~1000B-Lu ~36lm/w, ~650 torch lumen
CCT and life numbers probably about the same as I estimated previously.
Spirit
Newly Enlightened
Yep, I thought the sag was quite high as well. I was measuring V bulb, not V batt, as it is the voltage across the bulb that matters in the end.
The voltages were measured in-situ, with the bulb (in the turbo head just-in-case), connected via 50cm, 14 gauge test leads. I guess with 2.8A the resistance in the test leads, body, tailcap, bulb spring etc takes it's toll.
The voltages were measured in-situ, with the bulb (in the turbo head just-in-case), connected via 50cm, 14 gauge test leads. I guess with 2.8A the resistance in the test leads, body, tailcap, bulb spring etc takes it's toll.
Last edited:
Spirit,
The M6 lamp is pretty hard to make and not many people owns the expensive M6 torch. I will see how the M Series goes and then we will think about making a sample run of the M6.
Once the packaging is done, the M Series will be released.
The M6 lamp is pretty hard to make and not many people owns the expensive M6 torch. I will see how the M Series goes and then we will think about making a sample run of the M6.
Once the packaging is done, the M Series will be released.
mdocod
Flashaholic
After the M series comes out for awhile, I think you'll probably find a thread somewhere, discussing M6 users slapping your M3T lamps into their M6s. The fixture is the same, so if it works in a M4, or M3T, it will fit in an M6.
a 13V M series lamp. (turbo length fixture). would see tons of users.
Also wouldn't surprise me to see people slap M3 heads on these configurations to shrink up the size a bit and run LF M3 lamps. (if 13V were available in the shorter M3 fixture size as well). With your history of cramming a lot of throw into your small lamps people may find the throw they desire in a more portable head size.
Leefbody 3x18500
leefbody 3x18650
M3T w/3RCR123s(up to 1.5A max)
M3T +3 1 cell extenders 3x17670
M4+2 1 cell extenders plus 3x17670s
M4+1/2 cell extender (someone will probably make it lol) 3x17500
M6 w/6RCR123s
M6 w/modified battery carriers 3x14670 and stuff.
There are already a bunch of folks using the MN15(SF M3T lamp) in the M6 to get about 2.5hrs runtime, nicely driven to ~270 bulb lumens.
a 13V M series lamp. (turbo length fixture). would see tons of users.
Also wouldn't surprise me to see people slap M3 heads on these configurations to shrink up the size a bit and run LF M3 lamps. (if 13V were available in the shorter M3 fixture size as well). With your history of cramming a lot of throw into your small lamps people may find the throw they desire in a more portable head size.
Leefbody 3x18500
leefbody 3x18650
M3T w/3RCR123s(up to 1.5A max)
M3T +3 1 cell extenders 3x17670
M4+2 1 cell extenders plus 3x17670s
M4+1/2 cell extender (someone will probably make it lol) 3x17500
M6 w/6RCR123s
M6 w/modified battery carriers 3x14670 and stuff.
There are already a bunch of folks using the MN15(SF M3T lamp) in the M6 to get about 2.5hrs runtime, nicely driven to ~270 bulb lumens.
Spirit
Newly Enlightened
Hi mdocod
That is quite a list of options for 3 x Li-ion!
You can also add Leef's (hopefully soon to be released) AW C-cell modular system, that will allow 3 C-cells to fit a M series head. This is my current favorite rechargeable M6 option 12.6V at 3300mAh in a package about the same size as the M6.
A WA1185 in a FM adaptor will work well, but a 2.2A, 700 Lumens, LF E0-M6R 13V using the bulb capsule from an EO-13 on a MN base would be brilliant!
Hi Mark,
I agree that the M6 running on Primary cells is a expensive (to buy and run)limited market light and I think that a true Primary cell M6 (4.5A, +1000 bulb lumens) LA would be a big design task, for a small market.
For most normal people to use an M6 in a high powered format you have to run rechargeables to make it cost effective.
With AWR not delivering the long promised M6 hotdriver option, there are a lot of people looking for a useable Li-ion M6 option. 6 x R123 (3s2p, giving 12.6V at 1500mAh) running a 1.4A or a 2.2A 13V bulb, is a really good option.
Also all Mdocod's options listed above would use this same Lamp Assembly and these are all quite common set-ups.
You already have designed the EO-13 (and HO13) bulb assembly. "All" you have to do is package it onto your new MN base!!! :twothumbs
That is quite a list of options for 3 x Li-ion!
You can also add Leef's (hopefully soon to be released) AW C-cell modular system, that will allow 3 C-cells to fit a M series head. This is my current favorite rechargeable M6 option 12.6V at 3300mAh in a package about the same size as the M6.
A WA1185 in a FM adaptor will work well, but a 2.2A, 700 Lumens, LF E0-M6R 13V using the bulb capsule from an EO-13 on a MN base would be brilliant!
Hi Mark,
I agree that the M6 running on Primary cells is a expensive (to buy and run)limited market light and I think that a true Primary cell M6 (4.5A, +1000 bulb lumens) LA would be a big design task, for a small market.
For most normal people to use an M6 in a high powered format you have to run rechargeables to make it cost effective.
With AWR not delivering the long promised M6 hotdriver option, there are a lot of people looking for a useable Li-ion M6 option. 6 x R123 (3s2p, giving 12.6V at 1500mAh) running a 1.4A or a 2.2A 13V bulb, is a really good option.
Also all Mdocod's options listed above would use this same Lamp Assembly and these are all quite common set-ups.
You already have designed the EO-13 (and HO13) bulb assembly. "All" you have to do is package it onto your new MN base!!! :twothumbs
mdocod
Flashaholic
exactly, but a 3.0Amp version wouldn't hurt
