What's a cheap and good charger for 17670 batteries?

[Tessaiga]

Hi, looking for a charger as above and does it make a difference if the 17670 batt is protected or not? cos mine is a protected one.

What does "protected" actually mean?

I know these are very basic questions but newbie here.. thanks..

 

[cy]

Welcome to cpf.... depending upon who you ask... there may not be such a charger that's cheap and good (safe?).

silverfox would be the one to ask that question.

start here: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=152013

most newbies to li-ion usage are not truly aware of where dangers of li-ion usage are. and that a large portion of dangers of li-ion usage occurs during charging.

charger failure to terminate charge after reaching li-ion's narrow 4.15v to 4.25v range could possibly burn down your house.

edit: a plia charger $43 from JSB is not exactly cheap, but is the lowest cost li-ion charger that I could recommend. terminates charge at 4.2v, instead of reverting to a trickle charge after 4.2v. http://www.jsburlysflashlights.com/...rod&ref=Pila_IBC_battery_charger&cat=&catstr=

Titon charger $89 is a much better buy and will charge a slew of other type cells too. but you will need a power source and charging clamp.

expensive? .... yes, but ask yourself. is it worth the extra costs to reduce risks of burning down your house?

 

[Nebula]

Tessaige

+1 to Cy's recommendations. I have both of the chargers he mentions, and I purchased them for precisely for the reasons he mentions. You would be very wise to follow his advice. KK

 

[matrixshaman]

cy - what is required for input on the Triton? best place to buy a Triton?

 

[zx7dave]

I am interested in a charger that will do 17500, 17670, 18500 and 18650's (all protected) Will the charger mentioned below do all that? Is there a charger out there what would charge more batteries at one time that is just as good? My batteries are from Lighthound.

edit: a plia charger $43 from JSB is not exactly cheap, but is the lowest cost li-ion charger that I could recommend. terminates charge at 4.2v, instead of reverting to a trickle charge after 4.2v. http://www.jsburlysflashlights.com/...er&cat=&catstr=

 

[LuxLuthor]

Great information posted by cy, and I agree. A number of us are sort of a Lithium battery dangers - posting spree - because it is not as well known as some might think.

zx7dave, I don't know of any Lithium cell chargers that do more than 2 cells at a time with independent voltage monitoring of each cell. The Pila charger will do all those size cells.

 

[cy]

new pila charger are designed to charge 18650, 18500 and 17500 sized cells with included adapter.

pila charger doesn't allow you to chose charging rates. but will properly terminate charge.

note these notes are for NEW pila charger only. older pila chargers are for pila cells only and will charge cells at 4.7v. pila cell has to terminate charge.

unfortunately..... it seems triton selling for $89 may be gone unless you find some old stock. they've been discontinued in favor of triton 2 for $124.

there's a triton jr for $79 that I have no experience with. but it's looks to be a good inexpensive charger with triton excellent reputation. main drawback to triton is lack of setting for A123/saphion type cells.

loads of folks are using old PC power supplies to deliver 12v to triton. depending upon what loads you charge at a larger 12v wall wart can be ample.

here's a link to current lineup for triton. tower hobbies ran out of $89 tritons...

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0093p?&C=PKL&P=7

 

[Coop]

Get a Triton and a DSD charger. Take apart the DSD and re-wire it so that you can use it as a batteryholder for the Triton.

 

[cy]

just found this triton listing that apears to be in stock for $85!

edit: Rats... not fast enough.. out of stock.

someone needs to jump on this... that is if they still have stock.

http://secure.hobbyzone.com/catalog/HZ/catalog/atalog_chargersnimh/GPMM3150.html

 

[Coop]

You're lucky if you can get a Triton anywhere... They are out of production and have been replaced with the Triton2, which will set you back about $125

 

[LuxLuthor]

Get a Triton and a DSD charger. Take apart the DSD and re-wire it so that you can use it as a batteryholder for the Triton.

MayCooper & Cy, what is the advantage of using the Triton over the Pila if you are just doing single cells? Is it just a faster charging rate? It seems that the benefit of faster C of Triton would be somewhat offset with 2 independent slots in Pila @ 600 mA rate each.

Even using an old DSD, I'm not seeing how to set that up to INDEPENDENTLY charge two cells. Is it just a matter of having separate leads going to each slot? If so, then you could rig up 2 DSD chargers to have a 4S setup, and use a balancer to monitor each cell voltage?

The Hyperion 1210i charger I got has the option of getting the optional HP-EOS-LBA10 Lithium cell balancer, but I have not seen a way to setup the wiring to use it yet. I wonder if the DSD slots would work.

This was a good way to show the wiring....I just don't know if you also need a PCB at the battery pack level to make that work.

 

[cy]

no advantage in using pila charger over triton or any other high end charger that lets you select charge rates, except for costs difference. and of course more compact, allowing you to take pila charger with you traveling.

most 18650 cells are 2400 mah range, so for example 1C would be 2.4amps. VS 600 milliamps. so pila charger would be much slower.

note if you charge faster during CC phase to reach CV stage, which will take longer to finish final 20% or so of charge.

 

[LuxLuthor]

CY, do you know about the typical RC packs that have taps to each cell? Is it just a matter of running a wire harness to this Hyperion Balancer

And using that diagram above, you could just have the wires go into a connector like this for each of the 4 Lithium cell slots on the two DSD's?

Actually, this Hyperion balancer can accommodate up to 6 cells in series, so I could use my 3 DSD chargers to a single harness that plugs into the balancer.

 

[Nebula]

Here is where I purchased my Triton2 - towerhobbies.com. It is listed at $125.00 at this time. However, they have a $20.00 coupon on the home page for purchases made through 3/31. BTW - Tower also sells the ICE charger as well.

 

[65535]

You could charge 4 cells in a DSD modded cell holder by using an equinox or similar balancing device. It's just a matter of the correct wiring. although it may require dummy cells or some type of short switch to make it work with less than 5 cells.

 

[LuxLuthor]

I started this thread at the RCGroups forum. Basically the question with the harness for the balancer is whether you need a PCB sensing circuit in the battery pack, or if you can just use a straight wiring into the harness that plugs into the balancer.

That would allow me to use my Hyperion 1210i charger and it's load balancer to safely charge at least 6 Lithium Ion cells in series at one time.

 

[Coop]

Here is where I purchased my Triton2 - towerhobbies.com. It is listed at $125.00 at this time. However, they have a $20.00 coupon on the home page for purchases made through 3/31. BTW - Tower also sells the ICE charger as well.

Pay close attention... the coupon is NOT valid if you just order the Triton2... coupon is for orders $125 and up, and the Triton2 is $124.99
But ofcourse most of us would order the optional $8.99 thermalprobe too, so then you can use the coupon...

 

[SilverFox]

Hello LuxLuthor,

The RC people are using battery packs that have taps attached to each cell. This allows you to use a balancer while charging multiple cells in series.

You can do the same thing. It is just a matter of wiring everything correctly. Remember to take care to minimize the resistance of your set up. Lead wire and contact resistance can interfere with your charge and balancing set up.

Traditionally, the tap wires are all the same length and are spot welded or soldered to the battery terminals. You will be adding additional resistance by using a battery holder, so you may end up with less than a full charge.

I would still recommend keeping a close watch on things while charging to make sure the balancer is doing its job.

Tom

 

[Tessaiga]

Hi guys, thanks for the wealth of info on chargers. Can I check what is the difference between unprotected and protected cells??

 

[LuxLuthor]

Hi guys, thanks for the wealth of info on chargers. Can I check what is the difference between unprotected and protected cells??

It's a great question. Basically, an unprotected "raw" cell is just a sealed cell that contains the Lithium Ion chemistry to make the battery work.

The protection is an actual small circuit board ("PCB") that is put on the bottom or top of the "raw cell" and underneath the plastic wrapper. The PCB then has the + & - connections come into it, so that if you are using the battery, the PCB will interrupt the circuit connection if the voltage drains down too low.

Other styles of PCB protection (such as in the Pila brand of Li-Ions & not sure if AW's also have this) additionally have an over charging interruption of the circuit so you don't trigger a Lithium battery venting/fire/explosion.