What's so great about Surefire?

+1 dell, the z2 is awesome NL, iirc designed around hand gun use with the thin body and grip rings. Although I was a little unsure of the z2 at first, it's soon become a favourite after use . Surefire are timeless , what light made today could you imagine being used in 30yrs time and still hold its own . Can think of the odd few(without going custom/expensive) , but not many mass produced ........ The z2 just feels great in hand, I do like the thin body to my surprise . The z2 gives me a classic look with a modern undertone.......😀

I do wonder when lights like the 6p were introduced and what people thought of these compact lights. Being used to larger maglites with an adjustable focus. Wonder if people just got it, or it took years for people to get on board(maybe ahead of their time).

Very good point mr fixer! and very cool CG, love them both, black C2 is very nice , I don't see that many of those.
 
SF incandescent lights were great - all of them. At a time when torches were dull, had rings and holes and were pretty miserable, the E2 was like a miracle. The M6 - off the scale. Everyone who tried them wanted one - and did not care what it cost. Then we had LED - and SF took it to another level. The U2, still a wonderful design was amazing with its 5 Watt Luxeon kicking out over 100 Lumens of white light and the ring level setting device is still a desirable feature - AND it ran from an 18650!

But lately with the 'melted black plastic' look with limited functionality they have lost the plot a little. I tried a couple and sold them on, shame.
 
Bdm82 said:
This bugs me. (Nothing personal BugoutBoys; couldn't resist the bad pun!)

I get the support for the 6p for the modularity, and I get the overall top notch build quality. Great hosts.

What I don't get is throwing support behind old technology and somehow saying that it's a good thing a company is stuck in the past. Yes, using old tech that has been well-vetted is noble. But so do so many brands we don't like (or even know of); just check the bay of e for examples. Why the double standard for SP lights? The build quality and design makes us look past the tech/output?

Whether it is a quality budget brand or our favorite modder, they manage to test new LEDs and find a way to leverage them for good (or skip them). SF is a big brand with deep pockets and a sizeable staff. If SF wanted to use newer LEDs and/or get higher outputs, they could. But they have such a reputation and following that they don't need to; they can keep riding the wave that formed in the past.

Really not trying to start a flamewar.... really not. But I do want to challenge that a company deciding to stick with the old in an industry that is quickly evolving wouldn't fly with other brands...
Click to expand...

Brightness also isn't everything. Also if you think of it, they really aren't very far behind. The new P2X is 600 SUREFIRE lumens. It's brighter than my Fenix and Nitecore 1,000 lumen lights. It also gets better runtime and doesn't step down to 400 lumens after a half hour. The P3X is rated at 1,000 lumens but I have no doubt that it's more than that. SF isn't behind, they have extremely bright lights. Including a 4,000 lumen light that shines 1,600 meters. They define a purpose for their lights and manufacture based on that. A keychain light isn't supposed to be 5,000 lumens. A crew served weapon spotlight is. They build off purpose rather than just stuffing the brightest crap out there into their lights.

So many people right now are so spoiled by cheap Chinese flashlights boasting high lumens and people get so impressed by that, they forget the fact that a flashlight is an illumination tool. When was the last time you NEEDED 1,000 or 2,000 lumens? Not when you wanted it, but when the task you were doing was not possible without that output? And when has a SF NOT performed for the task at hand? I have personally never run into a scenario where my SF would not cut it.
 
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Lots of things go into some brands of flashlights that the casual user either do not know of or don't understand.

So basically the market these days is saturated with products that sell well based off numbers, price or both.
Quality comes in at a distant third.

SureFire and some other brands stick with what got them a good reputation to begin with. The portion of the market that makes their purchases based off of numbers, price or both see the other guy as lagging.
But a large enough slice of the market sees the tried n true ways are still the way to go, that you do not see these so-called lagging companies going out of business.

Maglite, SureFire, Streamlight, Coast, LED Lenser and others still sell enough products to enough people to remain in business.

So just because the candle power crowd doesn't think they are still relevant does not mean the other 95% of the market agrees. Otherwise Malkoff, Elzetta, HDS, etc would be gone too. We here at CPF make a difference at what the market sees, but we do not play a complete role in what the market purchases... we actually play a smaller role than some realize. But our role is an important role that's for sure.
 
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ven said:
I do wonder when lights like the 6p were introduced and what people thought of these compact lights. Being used to larger maglites with an adjustable focus. Wonder if people just got it, or it took years for people to get on board(maybe ahead of their time).
Click to expand...

I had a Maglite and the Surefire's were marketed as being 4 x brighter, what folk's had difficulty with was the price of a 6P, I think that back in the late 80's early 90's a Maglite was about £25-30 and the 6P was nearer £60. I waited until the G2 was released and they were about £45. They eat the CR123's though so as soon as Surefire released the P60L I upgraded it.

Another bonus was that the 6P/G2 sized meant it was always on your belt, my Maglite got put in my equipment bag and was little used after the Surefire came along.

The last time I saw my Maglite (2D cell incan) the batteries had leaked and done a load of damage inside so it went in the trash. If I'd known then what I know now I would have tried to save it and upgrade it.
 
According to the inventor it took a buncha years for the 6P to catch on.
But when it did it was the atomic bomb of flashlights. That lead to a bunch of other ideas still in use by tons of people to this day. P series, G series, E series, A series, M series etc etc.

SureFire is not the same as they were back then. But a lot of the principles are still in their philosophy.
Principles that are invisible to many these days, but were easy to spot in the days a good whack to the palm got your flashlight glowing brightly....

Some say it was those big fat government contracts that supported them all these years. Well, that is true in one sense but... if it weren't for their design strengths the government may not have stuck with SureFire.
 
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No trick question here guys, but do you think surefire have made the biggest contribution with their innovation in the last few decades , more so than any other manufacturer? Even 25 yrs on or more, their presence is strong with the classics and the p60 is in demand(maybe more so than" back in the day" of incans). Just thoughts, i missed out on their prime and still tying to catch up. But for hosts alone, they are certainly up there as fav lights of all time for me. Their size, flexibility although not class leading at any, but they offer best of all world options IMO. Not to mention all the copies, clones and other ideas taken.

I admit a few years back when i 1st read up on them a little, saw the prices and unremarkable outputs(you know, 60lm WHAT!! kind of thing). Ignorance played a large part, now i see the bigger picture and at the time class leading no doubt. Other than the p60 side, designs.........its hard to nail an exact part of the attraction for me. So it is the package deal, all in USA made, the rest is history(literally).
 
Here's the way I see it Ven,

In 1908 a flashlight was made using a dry cell battery. Ever Ready gets the credit.

In 1910 tungsten was used in a filament. Suddenly lights could stay on for more than a flash at a time due to better runtimes and bulbs running much cooler... ie not poofing after 30 seconds or less.

By 1920 lights had been loaned to policemen, used in coal mines and were in use all over the place.

For the next 50 years quality improved, but production costs made many companies go for cheaper made products to sell them for less.

In the 1960's to 70's Don Keller built lights to withstand the abuse of bashing over a perps skull and keep going. New durability was now available. You had Kel, Mag, Streamlight, Bianchi and some others.

Batteries up to this point dictated what was what.

In 1988 the flashlight that used SLR camera batteries was invented. SureFire gets the credit. To me that was the beginning of where we are today.
Somebody may have done an 18650 at some point if the SLR cell hadn't been done prior, but a tiny (compared to previous offerings) 6 volt flashlight changed it all.

Arguably it is the battery holding back lights from getting mega bright in even smaller packages.

When super capacitors become affordable (read less than $35 each) look for hundreds of lumens from double and triple a lights.

The 6P designer PK may already have designs waiting for the batteries to catch up....
 
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Thanks mr fixer🙂, i like the.... in a nut shell, of the last century. 6v and the p60 format=winning formula it seems for the last 1/4.
 
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In the age of incandescents they were the best, brightest, and most durable. Brighter than the big metal lights that had rings, holes, and uneven patterns. They were the only ones who made weapon light's... for a number of years they were the only ones at all, and even after a few other companies did, they were the only ones who even tried recoil mitigation to protect the lamp.
With the cheap and common LEDs they have fallen aside a little bit. For just a small handheld, 2 cell, tubular, 5 inch light they are now on par with a lot of other companies. For just a daily carry, general use light they might not be the best for many people anymore. You can get the same output for less money.
They do have fantastic customer service even now though. And they do have some lights that are still filling roles others don't do as well. For pistol lights only them and Streamlight have lights with the output. They have more IR options for LE and military use. They are still the only ones making any sort of dedicated forend weapon lights for some long guns. A niche market for sure though, and they have cut down the product line a lot for those.
 
Thankfully mr fixer, i aint even got started yet😉 I think there is many many years left in p60's , after all.............fit the latest LED/s and driver , your bang up to date! if not ahead in many cases compared to production lights. z2 with 20+ mode groups or even 50+ now with pretty much enough options for even the fussy in us. Complement this with your flavour of beam(and pattern)= timeless . Not only that, but lights like the 6p and c2 have a real nice form factor. Not too small, comfortable in hand and decent enough mass for high output options. Granted it will never win the throw championship, but for a pocket light...........its not bad at all😎
 
I was totally taken back Unicorn when i tried the incan 6p out. About as far away as I imagined being honest. Being used to the maglite of beams, i expected similar but ............well not as messy!. Pretty much a perfect tight hotspot, dim spill though, so not much use unfortunately for the majority of my uses. Still its there for a retro night😀
 
Ven- You want a bit more spill than the P60 offers? How about a bunch more brightness? Are one of your 6P/C2 hosts bored? Pop a P90 or P91 in there, with two 18350's. They're both glorious while they last... 🙂
 
scout24 said:
Ven- You want a bit more spill than the P60 offers? How about a bunch more brightness? Are one of your 6P/C2 hosts bored? Pop a P90 or P91 in there, with two 18350's. They're both glorious while they last... 🙂
Click to expand...

Cool , thanks for the info, will have to have a dabble at that! Yes one of the c2's and 6p's are bored, have a few IMR 16340's too for the standard body size.
 
You guys know so much about surefire drop in.. i bought surefire z2 bored with high drai. Switch. I am looking to buy a drop in. I like throw version. Which one u guys recommend? Thanks
 
Newlumen said:
You guys know so much about surefire drop in.. i bought surefire z2 bored with high drai. Switch. I am looking to buy a drop in. I like throw version. Which one u guys recommend? Thanks
Click to expand...
XP-G2 dedomed with smooth reflector should give you as much throw as a P60 can offer..
 
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