What's the best knife for self-defense?

[Reno]

Re: What\'s the best knife for self-defense?

I wonder why nobody has advocated a combined-arms type of approach? This is CPF, everybody has a light handy...

I had a situation like this just last night! Gangsta type, drunk as hell, takes off his shirt and threatens me with a crap knife and his tattoed flabby out-of-shape self.

Emerson commander comes out (that thing is soooo fast), E2e unclipped w/ left hand (lives on my belt), photonic phaser-blast in the eyes, no more fight! This is good, because I don't like to wreck my stuff. Had to hear a lot of cussing in Spanglish, though.

That said, my demeanor probably did more to stop that from escalating than anything else. Instead of getting all bunched up and scared, I just gave him a "you're screwed" look and did my thing.

It's always better to avoid those situations, and nobody wants to begin a fracas with knives after getting blinded.

 

[BlindedByTheLite]

Re: What\'s the best knife for self-defense?

[ QUOTE ]
ygbsm said:
one of those knives with a scary name and a blade that looks like a Velociraptor claw:

[/ QUOTE ]
the Dodo? heh heh heh. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[tsg68]

Re: What\'s the best knife for self-defense?

Oh, holy crap guys! Do you think criminals train in fighting techniques? No, they just ignorantly manage to kill you, that's all. If you are facing death, any option is viable! To tell someone that only "qualified" professionals are able to accurately defend themselves is complete and utter BS! You have instincts, you have a brain and hopefully you possess some common sense! You use the means at your disposal and the more means you provide yourself, the better off you are, trained or not. Self defense should have no disclaimers because all the rules are suspended, anything goes. It is simply you and your assailants with no referee and no "this is the proper reaction for that scenario" because really there are no scenarios in mano a mano. You have to decide when an appropriate use of force is neccessary and it's tough but hopefully you have some wisdom and luck's on your side.

Any one with a decent semblance of common sense knows you should avoid confrontation and also exploit any avenue of escape but what are you gonna do when you are trapped, give up? Tell yourself "hmmm, I guess I'm not qualified to proceed beyond N-th degree of force." Hell no you are gonna fight tooth and nail, and dirty! The fact of the matter is no training can properly prepare you for what you may encounter. Training has benefits that weigh in on your side such as building your fitness and reflexes and learning how to manipulate body mechanics to your advantage and against an opponent, but they are not the end all be all. Some assailants are actually stupid enough to not recognize that you have put them in a "death grip" and they'll manage to stick a knife in your ribs or sever your hamstring WHILE you are choking the crap out of them. People can take alot of damage and still be effective fighters.

I once witnessed a guy drop a poo-poo degree blackbelt with one punch and begin to stomp the living crap out of the guy till I (the untrained one) pulled the idiot off of him and delivered my own beating. I still got a concussion and stitches in the back of the head and the blackbelt had some broken ribs, a broken nose, black eyes and a very bruised ego because the guy who dropped and kicked the crap out of him was a seventeen year old, untrained, kid who stood about a foot shorter than him but didn't seem to know or care that he was "out of his league". The kid left as an unconscious mass being dragged by his arms across the floor and out a fire exit by his friends and was later arrested for assault. He went into the Air Force to avoid prosecution (he had since turned 18 and once upon a time you could do that). I myself once bent up a blackbelt simply by overpowering him, lifting him over my head and slamming him down so hard onto a parked car hood that it knocked the wind out of him, he was finished (see I didn't realize I was supposed to flip when he tried to flip me) I found out he was a blackbelt when someone I met at a bud's birthday party related the fight story from the blackbelt's perspective back to me and I had the pleasure of telling the guy that I was the guy that had stomped his buddy. Many, many more fights before and after that and a few years as a bouncer in several clubs have taught me that all fights are unpredictable, missteps are common, gauging your opponents, impossible, damage to you, highly likely. You may even lose and still manage to survive, I have! The only thing that helps is, staying aware and keeping your head, thinking all the way through the encounter and taking advantage of every opportunity that presents you favor. Your mind is the best weapon and everything else is a tool to achieve your end, survival. The point is, if you don't believe you can win, you've already lost! I can actually remember thinking in some of my more unfortunate moments "Jeez this is not going well!" and later having either managed to live through the beating or having been rescued by others, kicking myself for having wasted precious moments for such a defeatist thought when I should have remained focused on winning.

Anyhow, if I had to chose between nothing and a knife it wouldn't be a difficult choice.

My preference is obviously Strider knives, sure they look intimidating and scary but that in itself could be an advantage.

Tad /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[BIGIRON]

Re: What\'s the best knife for self-defense?

I didn't make myself clear. By training, I'm not referring to formal, stylistic techniques, etc. That too often provides a false sense of ability (not to mention reality) that gets a lot martial arts practioners hurt. I mean basic skills and instilled attitude , "here's how you hold a knife and here's where you cut the m-----" type stuff. Wildly screaming and stabbing can certainly have a serious effect, and may well be the best thing at the time, but eye slashes and tendon cuts will for sure give you time to leave the area. Knowledgeable use of a stick or spray may keep you far enough away to avoid getting blood on you. Remember, if you are close enough to cut the BG, he's close enough to cut you.

Attitude and knowledge are by far the most important factor.

 

[Reno]

Re: What\'s the best knife for self-defense?

tsg68 has got a lot of free time /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[tsg68]

Re: What\'s the best knife for self-defense?

[ QUOTE ]
Reno said:
tsg68 has got a lot of free time /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL! Just flappin' my mental gums! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

Tad /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[MichiganMan]

Re: What\'s the best knife for self-defense?

[ QUOTE ]
Reno said:
tsg68 has got a lot of free time /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

And lives in a bad, bad neighborhood. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif

 

[Sinjz]

Re: What\'s the best knife for self-defense?

[ QUOTE ]
You're making sense, for someone who claims not to know anything about this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I read, I learn, I have common sense. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Like the great Homer once said, "I am smart. I am smart. S-M-R-T, I mean S-M-A-R-T...." -Homer Simpson. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

So how about making a recommendation for a fixed blade.

Scary Dodo?! Hehehe... that IS funny!

Thank you Tad for saying what I've been thinking the whole time. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Now which Strider do you carry? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[ygbsm]

Re: What\'s the best knife for self-defense?

[ QUOTE ]
BlindedByTheLite said:
[ QUOTE ]
ygbsm said:
one of those knives with a scary name and a blade that looks like a Velociraptor claw:

[/ QUOTE ]

the Dodo? heh heh heh. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Dodo? That's not a scary name, that's a dumb one. HA HA /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif I'm thinking of the "hawkbill" types. Spyderco or MOD (or some cheap POS knives I've seen).

I happened to run into tsg68 recently at Paragon Sporting Goods in NYC -- he owns a Strider GB and I believe now has a new Gen 5 SnG. If you get one (or a Strider AR which is what I have) you should ask him about the custom kydex sheaths he makes for the Striders. But depending on how blade lengths are measured, the big Striders may be over the length limit identified above (the Strider site itself lists blade length for the GB and AR at 4 in.).

Striders offer some very nice fixed blades also -- I have their HT, EB-LS, EB-S, DB and SA (though I don't make a practice of carrying any of them in the City). Like I said before, I've heard some people say fixed blades are NOT legal for carry in NYC. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif


If you want another perspective on avoiding or limiting potential liability and costs that you may incurr even when you act in self-defense and are in the right, you might take a look at one of Mas Ayoob's recent articles on the subject (I can't recall which magazine). In the article Ayoob says that to head off pitfalls in potential defending lawsuits, he was careful not to give his dog a "scary" name and was careful to use only the standard "Beware of Dog" sign -- no mention of an "attack/vicious dog" etc.

In the same article Ayoob also relates the story of the difficulties faced by an Heckler Koch employee who defended himself and his fiance with the licensed full-auto assault rifle he had in his truck against three armed "bad guys" who had chased him right into the HK facility. The HK employee ended up out tens of thousands of dollars on legal fees for defending himself, in a situation which, from the way Ayoob tells it, there would have been no criminal suit, but for the use of an automatic weapon -- the prosecutor attempting to capitalize on the fact that even licensed, full-auto weapons are "scary" to the average juror.

If you have ever watched a skillful prosecutor or plaintiff's attorney in action, you'll realize that Ayoob's advice is really just common sense...

 

[Phaserburn]

Re: What\'s the best knife for self defense?

Seems to me, if you aren't proficient with a knife, you'd be better off with pepper spray for defense. If someone does take it from you, you aren't dead. And, most guys are proficient with a water pistol or spray paint, so you're half way there.

 

[Muppet]

Re: What\'s the best knife for self defense?

You know, I'd never count on any crook or thug being a poor fighter. If you're the kind of person who gets drunk and gets in knife fights, and you're still breathing, the odds are that you know what you're doing. Similarly anybody who doesn't immediately stand down or run when confronted with a knife is either insane, ballsy enough to be dangerous even if inept, or far, far better than the person they're facing.

Nobody wants to be in a knife fight. Nobody sane, anyway.

What that means for your defensive carry? I don't know... My conclusion from what I've read is that, basically, knife fights have three basic conclusions:

1> You pull a knife, the other guy backs off, you put it away again.
2> You pull a knife, injure or kill the other person severely, and wind up in court.
3> You pull a knife and wind up in hospital or dead.

I'm really not sure that's ideal for anybody who isn't in a dangerous profesison like a cop. For more general self-defence, I'd look at something with a greater scope for non-lethal outcomes.

 

[Sinjz]

Re: What\'s the best knife for self defense?

4> You try to be compliant and they kill you anyway.
5> You take out Pepper Spray, the guy takes it from you then kicks your ***.
6> You run, they catch you, they stick objects up your butt.
7> You try to be compliant, give them your money, they grab your wife/girlfriend and rape her.
8> You run, your mother can't keep up, they kill her.
9> etc.....

There are a billion possible scenarios. Just because you want to run doesn't mean you can. Just because you want to play nice, doesn't mean they do.

BTW, I understand Muppet is talking about knife fights. I'm talking in a general situation, you never know.

 

[usair]

Re: What\'s the best knife for self defense?

Good manual and sharp thinking ... and also this knife fight /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[yuandrew]

Re: What\'s the best knife for self defense?

I'm not really good with true "knives" but as 9/11 shows, even a simple box-cutter or ultility knife would be useful for any purpose. (I personally keep my "knife" in the garage!)

 

[Reno]

Re: What\'s the best knife for self defense?

The only thing 9/11 shows us is that you can't anticipate anything. You will respond, anyway. Good or bad.

A man with a knife is exactly what he appears to be.

 

[Reno]

Re: What\'s the best knife for self defense?

It's about Attitude, dude.

Pull off a shoe, ball it up in your weak hand, and give him a 'f-k you' look.

 

[Reno]

Re: What\'s the best knife for self defense?

Or, do what I advocated in the first place, and blind him.

God, how stupid is this topic when nobody brings up the benefit of blinding an adversary.

Sucks to brandish a knife when you can't tell where it will end up.

 

[js]

Re: What\'s the best knife for self defense?

This was mentioned already a couple times, but it still bears repeating and I didn't catch any reason why it isn't the best option:

A CANE OR WALKING STICK. ???

Why not? I am a complete novice at any kind of self defense and I have no training in knife or stick fighting, so keep that in mind. Take it as a question. But from what I've read on KnifeForums, there are some pretty good arguments that a walking stick is far better for self defense than a knife because,

1. It's already in your hand and deployed.
2. No legal issues or problems with how it will look after the fact to a juty.
3. Long reach.
4. Not as deadly but every bit as effective.
5. Can be used with no training in an intuitive manner, but will become very much more potent as a defensive tool with a bit of training.
6. Doesn't need sharpening. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Just kidding about that last item. Personally, I don't know. I do EDC a knife, but not for self-defense. I don't think I would pull it in a fight. I have found, exactly as tsg says, that the person who wins the fight is the one who just up and punches, kicks, jabs, etc. without wasting time on pushing, drawing, posing or brandishing. My one rule is simply this: avoid a fight at ALL costs, but if that is not possible don't look for a middle ground, don't wait, don't trade pushes or insults, just start the fight as fast and ferociously a possible and get out of there as soon as possible and as fast as possible.

I learned this the hard way by being an idiot while traveling in Mexico. Odd, but the only trouble--or even mild rudeness--that I ran into down there was from another US citizen. I was at the post office waiting in line, and this guy grabs me by my backpack to make his way past and around me. This is never a pleasant feeling, so I turned around and gave him a dirty look. He stopped, turned back, came right up to me and said "Do you have a problem?"

AND LIKE AN IDIOT, I said "No. Do you?" Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. Too many stupid movies and the whole machismo thing in my head and out comes this STUPID response. Well, the guy starts going off on how he came down to Mexico to avoid having to kill punks like me and starts yelling at me to stop looking at him "like that." What I should have said was "Listen, I'm sorry. You're right. You just startled me by grabbing my back pack from behind. I apologize for scowling at you." That's what I should have said, but I didn't. I just stood there and didn't back down and just took him poking and pushing me and verbally accosting me. Fortunately, I was lucky, since I didn't escalate things further, he ended up just saying his piece and pushing me a bit and walking off. But it pretty much ruined my day and probably the next. I can't remember.

But I do know this: don't walk around with an attitude; don't walk around with a "ef you" look; don't anticipate what you are going to do in these types of situations. I disagree that looking "bad" will keep trouble at bay. Of course, don't look like a scared rabbit either!

In any case, in a dark alley (where you should NEVER be in the first place, as we all know) I'd much rather have a good stout walking stick than a knife any day. But that's just my uninformed gut feeling, so take it with a pound or two of salt.

 

[clarky]

Re: What\'s the best knife for self defense?

IMHO knives are a very bad idea for self defense. You have to get too close to an attacker to defend yourself, the walkingsticks are a very good choice especially when confronted with someone with a knife, they can never get close enough to use it if you don't let them. I am a CCW permit holder and generally carry a Glock, but I have never even thought about drawing on someone because I have always been able to talk/run my way out of the situation, which ALWAYS has the better ending.

 

[Muppet]

Re: What\'s the best knife for self defense?

Let me second the cane/walking stick option. The big distinction (for me) is that you can fairly reliably whack somebody without a serious risk of killing them, unlike a knife. There's almost nowhere on a human body you can stab or slash somebody and not risk hitting an artery or some other vital system but you can take a stick and flail away and, as long as you steer clear of the head, it's unlikely you'll do more than break a bone.

And, you can still be a gear head:

http://www.google.com/search?q=newt+whup-***+stick&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Myself? I'd make something out of an old ski pole. Cut it down to size and stick a rubber tip on it. Nearly unbreakable, light, and cheap.