Darell
Flashaholic
Am I dreaming here, or does it seem that Cree has gone from P4, up to Q2, 3, 4 and now Q5... while SSC's best offering is still the U-bin? This can't be right, can it? Somebody set me straight.
Why Cree advances, but not SSC?
- Thread starter Darell
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BentHeadTX
Flashlight Enthusiast
Since SSC gives such a broad range (87 to 119 lumens at 350mA I think) One would think the V bin SSC would come out when the R bin Crees roll. Just a guess from me... take it for what it's worth.
Darell
Flashaholic
Ah... certainly a logical thought. Yeah, that's a pretty big lumen range, certainly (I'm not sure what you have is exact, but I'm also not going to bother looking it up either... it is close enough!) Being the skeptic, I just assumed we'd be lucky to see them much over the minimum rating - but maybe they're constantly improving and are just about to hit the upper limit???
Ah... and I still well remember my first Q-rank Lux1 low dome. In fact, I still have some in my museum.
Ah... and I still well remember my first Q-rank Lux1 low dome. In fact, I still have some in my museum.
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LEDcandle
Flashlight Enthusiast
Seoul may be busy developing their "420 lumen" emitter :-
http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/070919/0304121.html?printer=1
Although it doesn't look like it's flashlight friendly, anything is possible. If that works out, forget the V-bin.. :laughing:
http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/070919/0304121.html?printer=1
Although it doesn't look like it's flashlight friendly, anything is possible. If that works out, forget the V-bin.. :laughing:
BentHeadTX
Flashlight Enthusiast
Ah... and I still well remember my first Q-rank Lux1 low dome. In fact, I still have some in my museum.
I still have a Minimag with Q4L Luxeon running off a BB400 (actually 416mA) current regulator board. The Minimag is fully pimped out with an extended bezel to hold an IMS 20mm reflector, crystal lens (window) and Kroll tail clickie.
Funny thing though, people are still wowed by that minimag. It is not for sale, just a cruise down memory lane circa May, 2003 as it sits on a shelf.
3rd_shift
Flashlight Enthusiast
Last I heard, the SSC P4 led was based on a Cree die.
It looks like SSC is advancing in other directions on thier own now.
It might be silly now for Cree to help them too much further imho.
Too bad nobody has a 4die, single package emitter like the Luxeon5 does, but at over 100 lumens per watt.
That's what I'm waiting for.
It looks like SSC is advancing in other directions on thier own now.
It might be silly now for Cree to help them too much further imho.
Too bad nobody has a 4die, single package emitter like the Luxeon5 does, but at over 100 lumens per watt.
That's what I'm waiting for.
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With Cree providing the EZ1000 chips to other manufacturers it does make strange bedfellows considering Cree's XR-E package which in turn competes with these other manufacturer's packaged products.
Since Cree was providing chips first and not in the final package business their history and customer base for the chips is older and likely well established. I have no idea if there are departments within Cree like the raw chip division VS complete package solutions where there would be presumed infighting or not.
It has never been established to my knowledge if Seoul or Cree have clearly done a better job in getting the EZ1000 chip to perform. By factory specs, Seoul seemed to be ahead.
At this point in the game who knows if Seoul is getting the premium or high flux chips from Cree or not. :shrug: We also don't have a feel or insight into just what the yield of the dice that go into the Q rank XR-E's might me. Is it possible that Seoul is also getting some of these dice but not in numbers that they make them available to the market at large? Could Seoul have some premium contracts where all of their cream is going, unannounced?
So much potential for speculation!!! :green:
Recently there was a press release about one of the premium flashlight manufacturers going heavy with Seoul. Could this be based in part with an understanding or agreement on getting premium yield? :shrug:
I would guess that the behind the scenes goings on at both Cree and Seoul are behind the scenes and not likely to get public exposure without some marketing control and possibly even spin.
I have seen indication that Cree looks to bottom line at the expense of keeping square with previous agreements; at least at the small end of the spectrum. There have been some marketing games and press releases where IMHO, high end product has been released and touted but not on the high road. In this comment, I include Cree and Lumileds but this is an impression from outside and I understand that business is business and not necessarily friendly in nature. :thinking:
In high stakes poker, the players are not inclined to share their hand with the audience unless it fits in with their game plan I would guess.
Since Cree was providing chips first and not in the final package business their history and customer base for the chips is older and likely well established. I have no idea if there are departments within Cree like the raw chip division VS complete package solutions where there would be presumed infighting or not.
It has never been established to my knowledge if Seoul or Cree have clearly done a better job in getting the EZ1000 chip to perform. By factory specs, Seoul seemed to be ahead.
At this point in the game who knows if Seoul is getting the premium or high flux chips from Cree or not. :shrug: We also don't have a feel or insight into just what the yield of the dice that go into the Q rank XR-E's might me. Is it possible that Seoul is also getting some of these dice but not in numbers that they make them available to the market at large? Could Seoul have some premium contracts where all of their cream is going, unannounced?
So much potential for speculation!!! :green:
Recently there was a press release about one of the premium flashlight manufacturers going heavy with Seoul. Could this be based in part with an understanding or agreement on getting premium yield? :shrug:
I would guess that the behind the scenes goings on at both Cree and Seoul are behind the scenes and not likely to get public exposure without some marketing control and possibly even spin.
I have seen indication that Cree looks to bottom line at the expense of keeping square with previous agreements; at least at the small end of the spectrum. There have been some marketing games and press releases where IMHO, high end product has been released and touted but not on the high road. In this comment, I include Cree and Lumileds but this is an impression from outside and I understand that business is business and not necessarily friendly in nature. :thinking:
In high stakes poker, the players are not inclined to share their hand with the audience unless it fits in with their game plan I would guess.
mudman cj
Flashlight Enthusiast
Hmmmm, ViReN seems to know something... oo::huh::huh::huh:
oo::huh::huh::huh:
KingGlamis
Banned
All I can say is WOW! I'm surprised this news isn't all over CPF. It says available in the fourth quarter of 2007, which is pretty much anytime now. And the article does say they could be used in torches. :twothumbs
easilyled
Flashaholic
This has been commented on a few times already.
Not as good as it looks since the article also states that the power
outlay to achieve this is 8W. 50lumens per watts is not as efficient
as Seoul's existing U-bin !!!
Going back to the original poster's question, in my experience the
SSC-P4-U-bin leds have been brighter than all the XRE-Crees until
they started to get to Q4 or Q5, so I'd say its more a case of
Cree catching up with Seoul rather than the other way round.
This may seem strange since the SSC-P4-U-bin uses Cree's EZ1000
die, but it certainly has been the case from my observations. :shrug:
LEDcandle
Flashlight Enthusiast
Yeah we have no idea what the Vf of the LED is like, but it looks like it might be rather high. Still, the new emitter could be likened to the Lux V, requiring more voltage but putting out more power. Maybe it can be driven with lower for more efficiency and hopefully still put out 200+ lumens at 3w?
We'll have to wait and see I suppose
We'll have to wait and see I suppose
Calina
Enlightened
I believe, at the beginning, the difference in performance between CREE and Seoul, had to do with the phosphor they used and the way it was applied.
The better output we now see in the new bins from CREE might be mostly due to their better handling of phosphor and not so much to the improvement of the dies. If that is the case Seoul still receives the same dies from CREE and cannot do much better with them that they already do.
The better output we now see in the new bins from CREE might be mostly due to their better handling of phosphor and not so much to the improvement of the dies. If that is the case Seoul still receives the same dies from CREE and cannot do much better with them that they already do.
"Seoul Semiconductor Unveils World's Highest Brightness Single LED at 420 Lumens, 4 Times Brighter than Conventional LEDs"
If they drove those at 4 amps like cree is doing with its famous R&D 1000 lumen LED, thats something in the order of 2000lumens, is that possible?
and considering that CREE's is only going to be available possibly in the later part of next year, seems like SSC will take over the lead soon(?)
Crenshaw
If they drove those at 4 amps like cree is doing with its famous R&D 1000 lumen LED, thats something in the order of 2000lumens, is that possible?
and considering that CREE's is only going to be available possibly in the later part of next year, seems like SSC will take over the lead soon(?)
Crenshaw
skalomax
Flashlight Enthusiast
Hmmmm, ViReN seems to know something...
:candle:
I don't see anything regarding ViRen.
Wrong link perhaps?
mudman cj
Flashlight Enthusiast
Darell
Flashaholic
Ah, but I'm starting from TODAY... where the Q5 availability seem huge and reasonably priced. In my experience the Q5s are pushing out more photons than the U-bins that I have. But as I said - I don't know if SSC is inrementally improving their emitters within that relatively large lux range. May well be - it isn't like I buy a new emitter off the line every week to test!
Sounds to me like Don is just trying to stir up the hornet's nest.
ICUDoc
Enlightened
I agree Darell- I put most of my LEDs on the photon box and see that the Cree Q5s seem on average well above the SSCs in terms of output- but I have had a couple of excellent SSC performers: IMO the problem is partly that enormous binning range SSC uses- maybe narrowing that up will let us get their better stars- at a price, of course!!
Darell
Flashaholic
Yeah, that wide SSC brightness range is an interesting marketing strategy, isn't it? For "normal" use, nobody would really care. But for guys like us? Forgeddaboutit.
I appreciate it. It simplifies things and has no negative side effects. The Cree binning madness is slowly starting to be annoying while it is refreshing to have just "The SSC" for now ... and if there's the V-bin, it will be a step of at least a limited importance as opposed to Cree, where going from Q4 to Q5 ... well ... you know ... is just as important as the dust on my shelves.
bernie
bernie
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