Words to Live By.

[wacbzz]

Where I was raised the doers became the teachers.

The problem wasn't the lack of teachers. The problem was a lack of students willing to learn.

This is the second time in this thread such a statement has been made (ie, doers became teachers).

I find it incomprehensible that folks can't see that these "doers who became teachers" are precisely the ones to blame for the "lack of students willing to learn."

It's straight BS to blame kids for what adults LET them do.

Somehow, lots of folks here are missing the progression from the greatest generation to where we are now; their kids had it tough, but they learned. The next generation didn't want to be so hard on their kids, so they started to let poop slide. Now, honestly, about three generations removed, those parents are straight turds, the new "teachers," for sure, not doers, and their kids reflect that.

Now, I've opened the door. I can take the heat. Todays kids - in general - are weak pieces of poop and their "teaching" parents are to blame. I'll take that greatest generation of doers any day…

 

[bykfixer]

No argument here. Each generation has gotten softer, no doubt. But the belief system changed too.

We've gone from a "ask not what your country can do for you" to "what has my country done for me lately". How it happened? Eh, I wouldn't put it all on parenting. Not that parenting doesn't have some blame but there are way too many factors involved besides parenting.

One factor is pop culture. Back during the greatest generation days it was "hip" to serve in the military and go off to fight in a war. Look at all of the celeberaties who served back then. A generation later it was "hip" to be a draft dodger. That's not the fault of parenting.

 

[Monocrom]

....Now, I've opened the door. I can take the heat. Todays kids - in general - are weak pieces of poop and their "teaching" parents are to blame. I'll take that greatest generation of doers any day…

Lock them in a room, take away their phones, and in a couple of hours they'll be curled up on the floor in a fetal position going through worse psychological withdrawls than if you deprived an M-head of his fix for the same amount of time.

 

[bykfixer]

 

[Toulouse42]

No argument here. Each generation has gotten softer, no doubt. But the belief system changed too.

We've gone from a "ask not what your country can do for you" to "what has my country done for me lately". How it happened? Eh, I wouldn't put it all on parenting. Not that parenting doesn't have some blame but there are way too many factors involved besides parenting.

One factor is pop culture. Back during the greatest generation days it was "hip" to serve in the military and go off to fight in a war. Look at all of the celeberaties who served back then. A generation later it was "hip" to be a draft dodger. That's not the fault of parenting.

Yes, I kind of agree. There are indeed bad teachers but IMHO the issue is rather more nuanced than stated by wacbzz. The world around us has changed in the last 50 years or so, and "free" stuff is no longer valued. When I was young my parents valued education because they had little of it. My dad left school at age 12 when his father died. He was determined that I did not have to do manual labour for my living. In the UK, education and health care are "free" and generally not valued by parents, pupils or even by teachers. That level of casual contempt means that no one is motivated to learn. It doesn't help that the "state" has generous help for those people when they leave school incapable of contributing to society except to pump out babies.

There are some schools that do very well and those are run by very determined head teachers. Despite a lot of resistance from officialdom, they produce well educated and motivated students. It all starts with old fashioned discipline. In my own words, "Sit down, STFU and pay attention". No mobile phones ever!

wacbzz, I don't disagree with what you say and I think its absolutely right to recognise that society has gone soft. God knows how we make it better again.

 

[Monocrom]

The problem is, with most things in Life, you do get what you pay for. Nothing in this world is ever truly free. There's always a cost. (Sometimes it's not so obvious. Sometimes it's not money.) But with Public School systems? Oh, absolutely! Private schools will attract the best and brightest teachers, because they can easily afford to pay for the best. Public schools tend to attract individuals who became teachers for the insane level of job-security. Basically all the wrong reasons!

When you get teachers like that, it's no wonder students aren't motivated to learn. I attended public school. I remember Mr. Perez, and Mr. Poumari. I remember them because they were very strict, very motivated to teach, and very much cared about their students. But rarely openly showed it. I remember two other teachers' names. But only because they were so miserably incompetent as teachers that they crossed the line into being comically bad. (One of whom was an Asian Spanish teacher, and she could barely speak more than five words of English.) I'm seriously not even joking!

But those two men could have easily worked at a Private school for significantly more money. But chose not to. They chose to stay and motivate their students at Flushing High School back in the early 1990s. Problem is you have two teachers in a massive Public school. The number of students they can reach and motivate is extremely limited.

Compare that to some of the mental midgets we had as teachers. One of whom once went on a half-hour tirade that "None of you matter. None of you will make a difference in this world." What did he expect us to do, cure Cancer? Mr. Motivational Speaker also once bragged how he literally dehydrated himself during a vacation with his two sons in Egypt. They were desperately looking for more water, while he stood around feeling smug and oh so clever. Didn't even try to help his own two sons. Shows you what kind of man he was. And, what type of teacher. When someone like that is the Standard, no wonder kids aren't motivated to learn. Doesn't help that so many parents have no clue, nor desire to actually parent their children. When someone isn't raised right, you can't expect them to do right.

 

[Toulouse42]

Sometimes the changes can be very minor or subtle. Years ago I saw a TV program set (I think) in India. Parents were expected to pay a small sum towards their child's schooling. The amount was deliberately small but the teacher explained that if it were completely free it would not be appreciated.

Also, in New Zealand the mantra for years was that children were "entitled to a University place". As you can guess, that gave rise to all sorts of Mickey Mouse degrees. So they changed it to children were "entitled to earn a university place". That apparently made a difference.

I personally know people who have the attitude that once they leave school, they never have to learn anything new. I've been learning all my life and will do so for ever. For example, I'm learning lots of stuff on this forum.

 

[Monocrom]

Sometimes the changes can be very minor or subtle. Years ago I saw a TV program set (I think) in India. Parents were expected to pay a small sum towards their child's schooling. The amount was deliberately small but the teacher explained that if it were completely free it would not be appreciated.

That teacher was right. Folks in America think that Public schools are free. Not realizing that tax-payer dollars pay for everything, including their own taxed incomes. They can't make that connection.

Also, in New Zealand the mantra for years was that children were "entitled to a University place". As you can guess, that gave rise to all sorts of Mickey Mouse degrees. So they changed it to children were "entitled to earn a university place". That apparently made a difference.

A subtle but important difference. Too many folks just expect life to hand them everything they want, instead of going out and earning it.

I personally know people who have the attitude that once they leave school, they never have to learn anything new. I've been learning all my life and will do so for ever. For example, I'm learning lots of stuff on this forum.

I just never understood that mentality. Some folks just want to remain stagnant, I guess.

 

[PhotonWrangler]

Grief is just love with no place to go.

 

[knucklegary]

Grief is just love with no place to go.

Loving someone who doesn't love back can endure pain and grief.

 

[Hooked on Fenix]

Lock them in a room, take away their phones, and in a couple of hours they'll be curled up on the floor in a fetal position going through worse psychological withdrawls than if you deprived an M-head of his fix for the same amount of time.

I knew one teacher who went to my church that took things a step farther. Once he took away a student's phone, he started casually wrapping it in large amounts of duct tape before putting it in a drawer. At the end of the day, when he was to give the student back their phone, instead, he'd take an old useless cell phone from the drawer of his collection of phones and toss it to them so that it falls on the floor and shatters into pieces. Then he'd give them their real phone still wrapped in duct tape and tell them not to bring it back to class again.

 

[bykfixer]

 

[jz6342]

"Between reputation and character, always choose character. Reputation is what people think of you. Character is who you are when no one is looking."

 

[PhotonWrangler]

Lefties have rights too.

(Left-handed people, not a political statement).

 

[Chauncey Gardener]

Grabbed this from Flashlight Fanatics -

 

[PhotonWrangler]

Be modest. A lot was accomplished before we were born.

 

[bykfixer]

"Between reputation and character, always choose character. Reputation is what people think of you. Character is who you are when no one is looking."

I used to tell my boys coming up "the ship of character is rarely sunk by a large hole but rather by numerous small holes". I forget where I heard that but eventually they understood what it meant.

 

[Monocrom]

"It'll get worse.... before it gets much worse." ~ Anonymous.

 

[Chauncey Gardener]

There but for the grace of God, go I.

When our sons were teenagers we happened to find ourselves stuck in traffic at the Port of Tacoma. There were a lot of people present that were living underneath the freeway overpass. As traffic inched forward we had what seemed like an eternity to observe them.

I asked our sons, "Why do you think these people are living like this?" Our oldest replied, "They've probably made a lot of bad decisions during their lifetime."

I agreed but also cautioned them that sometimes a person only has to make one bad decision to ruin their life.

When I was a teenager and then into young adulthood I made a lot of bad decisions. There but for the grace of God, go I.

 

[Monocrom]

Quote from the radio, this morning....

Backstory: Female teacher with a 3rd-grade student wants to date no, not the student! The student's recently divorced dad. She was asking for advice if she should ask him out. All the men thought it was a great idea. All the women thought it was a terrible one!

During the discussion, someone said the following:
Don't eat your red meat at the same place you always buy your bread.

Make of it what you will.