No worries, CG. I assure you that I didn't click the 'ignore' button today, and don't plan to soon. Not generally my style;-)Now you've done it. You guys have gone and got yer sphincters tied in a knot.That's not going to be good for anybody.
Words to Live By.
- Thread starter Chauncey Gardener
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I've seen what women can do with proper training. I've given them that at the firearms school I volunteer at.
I'm not a brick.
I'd wait until she was done, then bum rush her.
She's 9. If I were a horrific pervert (which I'm not) I wouldn't have to get a bunch of my friends to surround her. I'd be more than enough on my own to snatch a 9 year-old when she wasn't paying attention.
I'm not going to stand a few feet from a little girl, announce my intention to take her, and then slowly approach her. No, I'm going to walk around, hunched over, and in my saddest voice, call out for my poor lost puppy, "Trixie." Then while keeping my distance, ask if she's seen my poor lost puppy. Even describing what she looks like. I'm going to play on her sympathy, and ask her to please help me find my puppy. And if that particular little girl doesn't want to help. I'll just say "Thank you, anyway." In a polite tone, and move onto the next little girl.
Again, just as an example. Not that I actually would. (Once dated a woman who worked for a non-profit Child Safety Organization.) One that educated parents on how to keep their children safe. And unfortunately, all she ever talked about was work. The above scenario? She'd talk about it all the time. And yes, you would be amazed how many children right around 10 years-old (both boys and girls) fell for that predatory act. (Obviously after getting the permission of the parents to attempt it, in a controlled setting that the child had no clue was one.) Why challenge or attack a child when you can easily lure them away?
Again, I'm not a brick. Dan rankings and trophies don't impress me.
I'm just being honest here.
Excellent.
They trained in a safe, controlled environment with men who didn't want to hurt them or r*pe them. Those men were not high on adrenaline nor hatred. If they were, things would have ended up very differently. Technique vs. violent, rage-fueled quick aggression? Technique loses every single time, if we're talking unarmed self-defense.
Violent attackers who hate women, aren't bricks either.
Bruce Lee said it best, "Boards don't hit back."
Same thing applies to bricks.
In a martial arts school setting, in a tournament setting; very impressive accomplishments for young girls. In a self-defense setting, I'm sorry but no.
Genuinely sorry to hear that. Such schools can be very beneficial in terms of morals and building confidence in young people to do their best in Life.
I hope none of them encounter a man who is as big as I am, as strong as I am, possesses none of my morals, and is fueled by rage and hatred towards women. Those girls would realistically get completely wrecked in a matter of seconds. With life-long crippling injuries.
That's one thing the Army is very good at with recruits.
Hooked on Fenix
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13 year olds and up were considered adults at the school. 13 year old girls with a year of training at green belt had to learn how to effectively take down 200 lb. men and adult women who were taking the same classes to pass their tests. Sparring for green belts and up allowed for takedowns. They had to learn how to get out of grabs on the fly and take down larger opponents not completely controlled as on a mat. They learned how to fall correctly before this was allowed for safety. Breakaway techniques (how to get out of grabs) were taught starting at white belt. Hapkido techniques were thrown in for fun. Learned at karate camp and passed on. 7 were taught, two involved a flip. By red 2, they also knew 20 one steps, 13 breakaways, 14 takedowns (3 with knives), and their first weapons form (and 10 other forms). With my passion for weapons, sparring, and breaking they had also had plenty of training with nunchaku, could effectively spar two or three on one, and could break bricks or speed break boards. Boards and bricks don't hit back, but the black belt instructors tend to if you don't block when you spar them, to a degree (we had to maintain our student base by not injuring them).
In all my years of teaching, I luckily only had one incident where two of my young students were nearly kidnapped on their way home from school. Someone grabbed them and tried to get them into a windowless van, but they were able to break out of the grip and escape. It was a brother and sister. Breakaways do work.
In all my years of teaching, I luckily only had one incident where two of my young students were nearly kidnapped on their way home from school. Someone grabbed them and tried to get them into a windowless van, but they were able to break out of the grip and escape. It was a brother and sister. Breakaways do work.
Toulouse42
Enlightened
Has anyone on this site seen the website "nononsenseselfdefense". It contains a huge amount of information about the subject, and in particular, goes into the areas of legal ramifications resulting from violent conflict and the whole concept of the "pre mugging interview".
Most of the site involves not getting into that situation in the first place.
If you do get into a physical conflict, it will be very useful to be able to explain to a judge exactly why you reacted why you did. One person's self defense is another's street fight. The cops don't care. They'll just lock everyone up. I have a family member who fell foul of this. He said it was self defense. The judge disagreed.
Most of the site involves not getting into that situation in the first place.
If you do get into a physical conflict, it will be very useful to be able to explain to a judge exactly why you reacted why you did. One person's self defense is another's street fight. The cops don't care. They'll just lock everyone up. I have a family member who fell foul of this. He said it was self defense. The judge disagreed.
Hooked on Fenix
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That's called situational awareness. One thing we taught was to have complete awareness of your environment. This starts with your attitude, how you perceive yourself and how others perceive you. If you walk around with your head down like you're depressed, you not only don't see what is around you, you make yourself look like a weak, easy to attack target. Bad guys prey on the weak. If you however walk around with your head up and a smile on your face and acknowledge people as you pass them, you show confidence and can see your surroundings enough to spot an attack coming using your peripheral vision. If you know you have to travel somewhere unsafe, bring friends. There's safety in numbers. Let someone know where you're going beforehand. This is common sense to avoid trouble.
Treat people with respect, even if they don't deserve it. It's the comebacks from being insulted that aggravate bullies and gangs into attacking you.
As a victim of gang violence myself, who got a huge beating after flipping off a gang of potheads for insulting my visiting cousin riding my sister's purple bike (I was young and stupid), I made sure to drive this lesson hard into my students' minds. (This incident drove me into starting martial arts).
Treat people with respect, even if they don't deserve it. It's the comebacks from being insulted that aggravate bullies and gangs into attacking you.
As a victim of gang violence myself, who got a huge beating after flipping off a gang of potheads for insulting my visiting cousin riding my sister's purple bike (I was young and stupid), I made sure to drive this lesson hard into my students' minds. (This incident drove me into starting martial arts).
Hooked on Fenix
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Good luck. She was trained how to handle a running choke. She'd have you stopped in your tracks with your elbows straightened out, arms down, kick you as you're hunched over forward, and break both elbows in the process, in half a second. Just how I trained her to do it. (Only takes 6 lbs. of pressure to break a hyperextended elbow.) One steps, breakaways, and takedowns were created from 5th Dan Tang Soo Do Master Steve White, U.S. Army Reserves, last stationed in Afghanistan, now unfortunately deceased.
And everything you mentioned happened with adults cooperating with the children. Yes, children. Sorry, not going to pretend that a 13 year-old little girl is an adult. It becomes a very different story when that adult wants to brutalize that child. When that adult is a rage-fueled monster high on his own adrenaline.
I never once said that children can't break away from an adult's grasp. But that is very different from a child being able to fight off a bigger, stronger adult. Child gets grabbed, they instinctively try with all their little might to wriggle away, run, scream, shout, maybe even bite the hand that's holding them. And, yes; by doing so they can sometimes get away. Thank God! But that has literally nothing to do with martial arts training. Even a completely untrained child can do that.
Also, very happy to hear that both of those children were safe.
Hooked on Fenix
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Look up Ho Sin Sul. You'll get a general idea of the types of things that were taught for escaping grabs. They're effective for all ages.
You trained her well.... To take down a bigger, stronger adult who would happily cooperate with her in the execution of those moves. I hope she never encounters a rage-fueld man high on his own testosterone and adrenaline. One who obviously won't square up to her in a one on one tournament or classroom setting. One who won't give her the opportunity to use any of those techniques. Again, reality has a way of shattering safe classroom training.
One of my students from just last month decided to get her CCW permit and training to use her new Ruger LCR, after an incident involving her 18 year-old daughter. Mom was paying for grociers and asked the daughter to bring the car around to the front. When the daughter got to the car, a man was walking by her. Just as he got past her, he turned around, grabbed her by the back of her head, slammed her face down onto the concrete. Tore her T-shirt away.
Thankfully, another shopper saw what was happening. Yelled at the guy. When he looked over at the shopper; he got peppersprayed. Mom ran over about a minute later. They caught him. And please don't tell me that "If she had been trained...."
No. Let's be completely honest. That very same young woman you mentioned above would have experienced the very same thing, under those very same circumstances. No squaring off with an opponent. No angry, threatening shouts. No thoughts in that moment of having to get ready to defend herself. Just quick, ruthless, violent take-down! And once there, keep her down. Nose broken, orbital bone cracked, bleeding profusely, completely confused about what just happened. That's reality. That's not something you're going to duplicate in a martial arts school where the adults are cooperating with the children who are executing various techniques.
Edit: Clarification.
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No worries. I'm perfectly satisfied to let other CPFers read the discussion that HOF and I have engaged in, and make up their own minds. All the relevant points have been brought up and discussed.
knucklegary
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Luke 6:31
In everything...
Do to others as you would have them do to you
Golden Rule 🙏
In everything...
Do to others as you would have them do to you
Golden Rule 🙏
Where I was raised the doers became the teachers.
The problem wasn't the lack of teachers. The problem was a lack of students willing to learn.
Hooked on Fenix
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Are you dealing with ghosts or a owner yelling in a rent controlled building trying to get more money from new tenants? If the latter, stay.
knucklegary
Flashlight Enthusiast
That movie was based on a true story. Yep, I would have left after first signs of evil!
So your house is possessed by a woman whose angry but refuses to tell you what you did.... I'm so glad I live in a CO-OP apartment building.
All my instructors in my sparky training (civilian / private sector) were retired U.S. military expert 'Doers' (with a capital D). My Dad was also a successful professional 'doer', who also taught. I have no excuses for turning out the way I did;-)
By now monocrom may only see posts by raggie and abtomat.....and maybe mr ed but he too might be on his lengthy ignore list.
