Zebralight SC60

[TooManyGizmos]

~ ... Fair warning from TMG ... I have made a study of several 18650 cells ....

~
EDIT > 9-28-2010 ...... UPDATE NOTICE > BE AWARE ...

THAT THE SC-60 DOES NOT WORK RELIABLY WITH FLAT-TOP CELLS ..... at this time .

BE AWARE IF YOU INTEND TO ORDER IT !

~
Bye the way ..... this is not opinion ..... it is a fact
~

 

[Ratton]

Just got my new SC60, Pila charger and button-top RediLast 2900 today and everything fits and works perfectly!!! :grouphug:

 

[jhc37013]

It seems the Redilast is the way to go not only for the issues with flat tops but the AW negative nubs will eat the tailcap spring up in no time if you don't alter the battery.

I want some Redilast 2900's for my SC60 the problem is I will have to get a new charger because apparently they don't fit in the WF-139 charger. Oh well I really need to update and get a better charger with the Pila.

 

[Alan]

New problem, my Redilast cells fit SC60 but not H60. My flat top AW2200s fit H60 but not SC60. I would carry both lights especially for traveling, it means I have to carry 2 different spare cells:-(

I just ordered 4 of Panasonic NCR18650. I hope this would fit both lights.

Alan

 

[MiniLux]

New problem, my Redilast cells fit SC60 but not H60. My flat top AW2200s fit H60 but not SC60. I would carry both lights especially for traveling, it means I have to carry 2 different spare cells:-(

I just ordered 4 of Panasonic NCR18650. I hope this would fit both lights.

Alan

Yes, H60 is a bit tighter and shorter than SC60.
Right choice as for NCR18650: they do fit both :wave:

As for SC60 and flat top AW2600 (don't have flat top 2200), it's kinda luck. Some fit, some don't.
It seems as if the flat top part is squeezed inside a little bit, they don't make contact..

Also tested in my SC60:

AW2200 Button top: ok
Soshine 2800 mAh (black top): very tight fit, but ok
WOW 2600 mAh: don't fit, too wide, you'd have to push them inside very hard, no guarantee to get them out later
Tenergy 2600 mAh (cyan, old model): ok (fits H60 too)
Tenergy 2600 mAh (cyan, new model): tight fit, but ok (no fit with H60)
TrustFire 2400 mAh (flamed ones): ok
EagleTac 2400 mAh: ok

MiniLux

 

[tre]

I did some temp readings because I think the light gets pretty hot. I used an infrared thermometer and a stop watch. The light is using an AW button top 2200mah 18650 which was measured at 4.07 volts before the start of the test. The light was tailstanding for the first 11 minutes of the test. At 11 minutes, I grabbed the light and held it for 1 min.

Time / Head temp / Body temp
0 min / 77.7 / 77.7
1 min / 87 / 83
2 min / 91.4 / 86.6
3 min / 95 / 89.7
4 min / 97 / 92
5 min / 99.1 / 94.3
6 min / 100.7 / 95.8
7 min / 102 / 97.1
8 min / 103.6 / 98.2
9 min / 105 / 99.5
10 min / 106.5 / 100.6
11 min / 107.5 / 101.4
12 min / 102.2 / 98.7 (I held the light for 1 min)
13 min / 105 / 100 (light was tailstanding again)

I turned off the light after 13 min and it was quite warm. I pulled out the AW 18650 battery and measured it at 98.7 degrees. It would seem the battery is the exact same temp as the body of the light. I am a bit worred about how much heat is transferred to the battery from the light.

 

[MiniLux]

I guess these were degrees Fahrenheit?

I don't think that 100 degrees Fahrenheit or about 42 degrees Celsius are really too hot for a flashlight or a 18650 cell

MiniLux

I did some temp readings because I think the light gets pretty hot. I used an infrared thermometer and a stop watch. The light is using an AW button top 2200mah 18650 which was measured at 4.07 volts before the start of the test. The light was tailstanding for the first 11 minutes of the test. At 11 minutes, I grabbed the light and held it for 1 min.

Time / Head temp / Body temp
0 min / 77.7 / 77.7
1 min / 87 / 83
2 min / 91.4 / 86.6
3 min / 95 / 89.7
4 min / 97 / 92
5 min / 99.1 / 94.3
6 min / 100.7 / 95.8
7 min / 102 / 97.1
8 min / 103.6 / 98.2
9 min / 105 / 99.5
10 min / 106.5 / 100.6
11 min / 107.5 / 101.4
12 min / 102.2 / 98.7 (I held the light for 1 min)
13 min / 105 / 100 (light was tailstanding again)

I turned off the light after 13 min and it was quite warm. I pulled out the AW 18650 battery and measured it at 98.7 degrees. It would seem the battery is the exact same temp as the body of the light. I am a bit worred about how much heat is transferred to the battery from the light.

 

[Alan]

I did some temp readings because I think the light gets pretty hot. I used an infrared thermometer and a stop watch. The light is using an AW button top 2200mah 18650 which was measured at 4.07 volts before the start of the test. The light was tailstanding for the first 11 minutes of the test. At 11 minutes, I grabbed the light and held it for 1 min.

Time / Head temp / Body temp
0 min / 77.7 / 77.7
1 min / 87 / 83
2 min / 91.4 / 86.6
3 min / 95 / 89.7
4 min / 97 / 92
5 min / 99.1 / 94.3
6 min / 100.7 / 95.8
7 min / 102 / 97.1
8 min / 103.6 / 98.2
9 min / 105 / 99.5
10 min / 106.5 / 100.6
11 min / 107.5 / 101.4
12 min / 102.2 / 98.7 (I held the light for 1 min)
13 min / 105 / 100 (light was tailstanding again)

It seems SC60's uni-body heat sink REALLY works! However, its uni-body design make it difficult to assembly.

 

[Alan]

Yes, H60 is a bit tighter and shorter than SC60.
Right choice as for NCR18650: they do fit both :wave:
MiniLux

Did you try NCR18650? My NCR18650 was shipped 2 days ago and hopefully, I could receive it today (only if they're really shipped as the seller claimed).

Alan

 

[MiniLux]

Did you try NCR18650? My NCR18650 was shipped 2 days ago and hopefully, I could receive it today (only if they're really shipped as the seller claimed).

Alan

Yes, I tried NCR18650 2900 mAh in the SC60 as well as in the H60. No problem, working

MiniLux

 

[Alan]

Yes, I tried NCR18650 2900 mAh in the SC60 as well as in the H60. No problem, working

MiniLux

Thanks. I need order 4 more then, and let all the Redi and AW cells for other lights.

 

[TooManyGizmos]

~

I have two older AW cells , 2200mAh , that don't work reliably in the SC-60 .

If you have extremely recessed tabs you should test them for potential loose connections in the SC-60.

Turn your light on - then bump it on a counter top to see if it breaks connection and turns off . If it does ... it has minimal connection and may fail when you need it most .

The brass post on the circuit board is not raised enough to contact all flat-top cells . It seems ZebraLight has used a variation of brass terminals in their production , and some are just not robust enough . I'm hoping they will correct this for future buyers so all 18650 cells can be used. This error could have easily been avoided .

Future buyers should request a beefed-up brass terminal .... pronto .

~

 

[Harry999]

Thank you to the previous posters for raising awareness of the issue of 18650 Li-ion flat tops not being 100% functional with the SC60.

I have no problem with flat top Li-ions (AW brand) in my H60 and H60w. I was looking forward to the SC60 but will now wait until the SC51 is available.

 

[Alan]

Both H60 and SC60 has in-built protection circuit and doesn't require protected 18650. Panasonic NCR18650 - 2900mah fits both and is available in ebay at around $12 a piece.

Unlike SC51 which runs high for around 45 min, SC60 runs high for more than 2 hours.

Alan

 

[Hondo]

I have all flat-topped 18650's, mostly laptop salvaged cells. If I were to have this light now (which I don't, I have the H60 and others), what I would do, given that I KNOW how to solder WELL, is add my own button to the top of the cell. I don't trust running the magnets in most lights, and looking at the exposed components, I would not in this one.

How I would do this is to clean the center of the positive battery terminal thoroughly, including light scuffing with fine sandpaper. Apply a THIN film of rosin flux to this, only at the center for about 1/8" to 3/16" diameter. Then take a well dressed, hot soldering iron tip, wiped on a wet sponge to remove oxidation, and load it fairly well with solder, and apply it to the center of the battery. If you have prepped it correctly, the solder will tin to the battery top and flow on almost instantly, without transfering enough heat to the battery to do damage. If it does not, QUIT, or you WILL transfer enough heat to the battery to do damage.

The resulting blob of solder will solve the issues in this light, and if it ends up too high, don't worry, just let it cool that way and file it down to a reasonable height, it is fairly soft and goes fast.

This is a pretty contraversial technique, applying heat to a Li-Ion, and should not be attempted if you are not an experienced solderer. But if you spend VERY little time with the molten solder on the top of the battery, it can be done safely. I will repeat, if it does not tin out almost IMMEDIATELY, QUIT and let it cool.

Alternatively, you could do exactly the same thing to the brass contact in the head of the light. But due to the way ZL's are made, you would need one very long, skinny soldering iron, and it would be a little like building a ship in a bottle. But if you can reach it, that is the safest cure for the issue.

 

[olrac]

Any more word on when the neutral version will be coming?

 

[Alan]

I have all flat-topped 18650's, mostly laptop salvaged cells. If I were to have this light now (which I don't, I have the H60 and others).

H60 does work with flat-topped 18650 while SC60 doesn't. Did you find that your flat-topped 18650 not fitting H60?

Alan

 

[Hondo]

I've had no problems with my 18650's fitting the H60, as far as diameter goes. They are all non-protected, so they are about as skinny as 18650's get.

 

[tre]

Both H60 and SC60 has in-built protection circuit and doesn't require protected 18650. Panasonic NCR18650 - 2900mah fits both and is available in ebay at around $12 a piece.

Unlike SC51 which runs high for around 45 min, SC60 runs high for more than 2 hours.

Alan

The "built in protection" in the SC60 does nothing to protect against the vast majority of bad conditions. For example shorts causing thermal runaway in an unprotected battery will still go in the SC60 where a protected battery would be ok. Clearly it also does not protect against overcharge when on the charger. A protected 18650 does not have any of these issues. I just want people who are not experienced with LiCo cells to know that using unprotected cells in the SC60 still carries the vast majority of the risk that you don't have when using a protected cell (there is still risk with protected LiCo cells - please educate yourself if you want to use them). The SC60 only has over discharge protection that kicks in at 2.7 volts. Ideally, you don't want to let your cell get as low as 2.7 volts. Also, the light does have parasitic drain so if you leave the cell in the light it will continue to discharge further than 2.7 volts.

 

[pae77]

I agree with the points made about the benefits of using protected cells in the SC60.

However, I think the overdischarge protection is appropriately set at ~2.7 volts. The reason over discharge protection is set to 2.7 volts is because when Li-Co batteries get down to where they are mostly depleted, which is about 3.6-3.7 volts, the voltage tends to quickly sag under load and momentarily drops down to 2.7 or less, which then appropriately triggers the ODP. Then when the drain is stopped after the ODP kicks in, the cell's voltage usually quickly recovers back to about 3.6 or so. Of course it is best to avoid triggering the ODP (or protection circuitry, if using protected cells), but this kind of treatment is usually not fatal or unduly harmful to the cell because due to the aforementioned rapid voltage sag under load (and subsequent recovery when the load is removed) that is characteristic of Li-ion cells when they get depleted down to ~3.6 volts, the 2.7 volt ODP is effectively stopping the drain when the cell's voltage is really at about 3.6 volts.