Saint now

Untizio

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I'd like to celebrate a great man, he invented a piece of our passion, without him we could't talk about flashlight!
Make him Saint now, :lolsign:THOMAS ALVA EDISON!!!

**Edited to remove excessive smilies**
 
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Calina

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If Edison was still alive, he would certainly claim he did
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goldenlight

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T.A. Edison had an extremely bad reputation for stealing other's ideas. The vast majority of his 1800+ patents were from the work of his many employees, (who signed agreements allowing Edison to patent and amass the huge wealth from the patents. They received nothing but reportedly low wages and bad working conditions.) and reportedly from theft of ideas from others.

He had a huge feud with Westinghouse over the superior AC form of electricity (Edison favored DC, which we all know is vastly inferior to AC in large scale distribution, etc.)

But such was the war that Edison waged against Westinghouse that he kept popular opinion on his side....until Fermi invented the vastly more efficient AC electric motor.

DC electricity was history, after that.

Edison was far from a saint, to be sure. He did some great things, but many, many evil things, as well.
 

ringzero

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goldenlight said:
But such was the war that Edison waged against Westinghouse that he kept popular opinion on his side....until Fermi invented the vastly more efficient AC electric motor.

Fermi was a great 20th Century Italian physicist, notable for research in nuclear fission and quantum mechanics.

Maybe you mean Tesla, the great Serbian electical engineer who was a contemporary of Edison?

goldenlight said:
Edison was far from a saint, to be sure. He did some great things, but many, many evil things, as well.

Isn't this a bit over the top?

Edison may have been shrewd, perhaps even underhanded, in his business dealings - but evil, I don't think so.

Edison was a visionary who provided workable solutions to the some of the toughest problems of his day: electric lighting, recorded sound, motion pictures, etc.


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goldenlight

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ringzero said:
Fermi was a great 20th Century Italian physicist, notable for research in nuclear fission and quantum mechanics.

Maybe you mean Tesla, the great Serbian electical engineer who was a contemporary of Edison?



Isn't this a bit over the top?

Edison may have been shrewd, perhaps even underhanded, in his business dealings - but evil, I don't think so.

Edison was a visionary who provided workable solutions to the some of the toughest problems of his day: electric lighting, recorded sound, motion pictures, etc.


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You are correct: it was Tesla who invented the AC motor. My memory is slipping. I studied Edison in High School, many decades ago.

But to put things into perspective: As an alternative to hanging, the Electric Chair was invented by Harold P. Brown for use in capital punishment (more humane...?) It used AC current, of course.

Edison attempted to get Congress to name the Electric Chair the 'Westinghouse Chair', before it could be lawfully adopted for use in capital punishment.

Edison did a lot of very underhanded, and by most standards, very unethical, things like this to try to stifle, discredit, and malign (to put it mildly) his competitors. He was a consummate megalomaniac.

He accomplished many great things, (much through the work of his subordinates, for which he took full credit) but he was a thoroughly unpleasant person.

I remember reading that people who loaned him money early on, reportedly either were never repaid, or did not receive the promised share in the profits his tremendously profitable patents brought.

It has been widely reported that he and/or people acting as his agents, lied, cheated, and stole. And as a wealthy and powerful man, he largely got away with it.

Not a candidate for sainthood. He has a great place in American, and world history.

But he never, to my knowledge, shot an elderly hunting companion in the face with a shotgun, sending him to the hospital, and causing a moderate heart attack. But he likely could have gotten away with it.

Such an egregious disregard for human life, and safe hunting and firearms practices, could never, ever happen with any public figure today, of course.
:barf:
 

James S

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no saint ;)


In order to be a saint you have to have witnesses to miracles that you or your prayer made happen. Everything Thomas did was very good science. They dont make you a saint for figuring out how to use natural laws, they make you a saint for entreating to God to break natural laws and have him listen to you.

Regardless of what you think of his business practices (which were often questionable) and his personality (which was often abrasive) he knew how to keep trying stuff till he figured it out.
 

Untizio

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well I obviously was sarcastic in defining him saint...
that's a bad italian canker...
 

Flying Turtle

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I think that prototypical mad scientist Tesla may come closer to being a saint than Edison. He certainly was a wizard, anyway. Read a biography of him. You'll be fairly amazed.

Geoff
 

ringzero

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goldenlight said:
It has been widely reported that he and/or people acting as his agents, lied, cheated, and stole. And as a wealthy and powerful man, he largely got away with it....Not a candidate for sainthood. He has a great place in American, and world history.

I never suggested Edison be nominated for sainthood, just suggested he wasn't evil. There's a huge gap between beatific and evil, and most humans fall into that gap, rather than being at one of the two extremes.

Evil: Manson, Gacy, Bundy, etc.
Eviler: Hussein, Castro, Kim Jong Il, etc.
Evilest: Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, etc.

Edison doesn't belong on lists like these.

goldenlight said:
But he never, to my knowledge, shot an elderly hunting companion in the face with a shotgun...could never, ever happen with any public figure today, of course.
:barf:

What this little exposition has to do with Edison, I can't quite fathom.

You're implying that Edison was evil, but VP Cheney is even more evil?

I don't think you'd recognize true evil if it bit you in the ***.

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Calina

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A few questions:

Who is "they" in the phrase " they make you a saint for entreating to God "?
What autority do "they" have?

How deep is the gap in "There's a huge gap between beatific and evil, and most humans fall into that gap"?

When you fall into this gap, where do you end up?

Who is etc in,
"Evil: Manson, Gacy, Bundy, etc.
Eviler: Hussein, Castro, Kim Jong Il, etc.
Evilest: Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, etc."
How can he be at the same time, evil, eviler, evilest? I guess he wasn't a nice person.

'Evil, eviler, evilest"; we can judge, of course! Because we are the saintest.

Finally, I agree with this suggestion: let's propose Tesla for Sainthood!
He's Italian! Does that help?

While at it, we should propose etc for evilness.

Who do we propose to???
 

James S

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Who is "they" in the phrase " they make you a saint for entreating to God "?
What autority do "they" have?
Uuhh, that would be the catholic church. Saints are a catholic phenomenon and "they" are the governing body inside the church that votes on such things.

The reason it was a joke is because he was talking in the generic as a saint as a good person, and I thought the dichotomy of calling a scientist/inventor someone who performs true miracles was funny.

how on earth has this discussion fallen into arguments about the nature of evil?

If people want to continue to chat here about the fun and foibles of Edison and his accomplishments, good and bad, thats fine with me. But if we keep knocking each other around I'll have to close the thread. So take all the axes to grind over to the underground and have some fun discussing the topic of the thread here.

I, for one, would have LOVEd to have been a fly on the wall during the time Tesla was working for Edison. I'll bet some interesting conversations and arguments erupted in the lab during that short time ;)
 

Calina

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I thought I was funny. Maybe not...
Sorry!

By the way, I was raised as a catholic (but I'm no saint) (nor evil for that matter).
 

ringzero

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Calina said:
Who is "they" in the phrase " they make you a saint for entreating to God "?...What autority do "they" have?

"They" is a body of the Roman Catholic hierarchy that nominates individuals for canonization. After a very thorough background check, the candidate will be canonized or rejected. The authority is that of the Pontiff.

Being canonized, despite the ominous sound of it, isn't extremely painful: "It'll all be over before you know it."

Calina said:
How deep is the gap in "There's a huge gap between beatific and evil, and most humans fall into that gap"?...When you fall into this gap, where do you end up?

The gap is deep indeed. If you fall into the gap, you may well end up in the slough of despond.

Calina said:
Who is etc?

Etc is always around, in all times and all places, to offer advice and encouragement to evil men. You can guess his true name.

Calina said:
"Evil, eviler, evilest"; we can judge, of course! Because we are the saintest.

We can judge of course, because we are numerate. Rankings are based of the number of dead bodies racked up by each man during his time on earth.

Calina said:
Finally, I agree with this suggestion: let's propose Tesla for Sainthood!
He's Italian! Does that help?

No, actually he's Serbian! Does that help? Don't know if there are any Serbian Saints.

Calina said:
While at it, we should propose etc for evilness. Who do we propose to???

Waste of time. Etc is already widely recognized as the source of all evil.


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Calina

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ringzero said:
Being canonized, despite the ominous sound of it, isn't extremely painful: "It'll all be over before you know it."
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"It'll all be over before you know it." Since you have to be dead to be canonized,
I guess you are right.
 
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