Just MY "A first impression" of the D10

yaesumofo · Jul 7, 2008

OK guys Not to jump on the band wagon or anything but I figured that since I am such a big fan of the PD concept and have been since they became available i figured i better get one of the D10's.
I picked the D10 because I have LOTS of cr123 cell based lights and not many AA based lights.
My absolute first impression is that I like the size. It is a little skinnier than the 1" lights I am used to but that is OK.I bought one of the AW 14500 cells to go along with the light. I have lithium as well as 2700 mAh NiMh rechargeable cells.
I have not yet been able to really tell if there is much of a difference between them. I suspect the Lithium 14500 will give the best light for the longest time but overall a 2700 NiMh should give a lot of light.

Generally the build quality is quite good with nothing but smooth threads and well placed O-rings visible. the emitter is well centered (mind is an all phosphor Cree) To be frank I am not a big fan of the stock Cree beam. I think I would prefer a Seoul beam... But we have what we have.
As a AA light I like the feel. the knurling is pretty good. It could be a little more aggressive. I only say that because the light is a little thinner than the 1" lights I am used to and a little more group can't hurt.

I am not terribly fond of the UI. But then again I don't like the fact that we need a UI in a flashlight. I am more of a KISS kind of guy. That said I recognize there is a great potential for User interfaces and one day a great one will come along and grab my heart. Until then the Novatac will ave to do (If I have to have a UI) otherwise the Lunasol with it's ON and OFF HI and LOW UI will keep me happy.

I am impressed with the fit and finish. I really like the fact that the light is made from 7075 aluminum. IMHO Flashlights should NO LONGER be made from 6061. YES 7075 is harder to work. Hell it is very strong and the fact that the D10 is made from 7075 will insure that it will last for many many years. The Fact that it runs on a AA cell also insures that I will always be able to power this light cheaply.
These are very good advantages for a $55.00 light.

I was thinking about some of the threads related to this light and I was taken back to a light which came out years ago which had a 3 watt Luxeon Starr. I still have one I can't remember what is is called but I think it was the first LUX III light which "caught fire" here on the cpf. I think it cost like $35.00 or so.
I was looking to figure out how far lights have come since the Beginning.
Well the two lights are about the same length. one (the D10) is thinner).
One has a typical Lux III hotspot with it's smooth transition from hotspot to side spill and the other has the typical Cree beam with it's more pronounced hotspot. Yes the D10 is brighter.
If there is interest I will take a picture of the two of these lights.

One is on and off the other has a UI which allows you to set the brightness.
one runs on cr123 cells one runs on AA's.
I don't think that "back then" there was a driver which could pull the power from a single AA and regulate it well enough to keep a Lux III running. the new breed of regulators is pretty good.
I would rather see a light that stays at the same BRIGHT level (when the brightest setting is selected) and have it stay that way until the batter can not support that level anymore. I am not a huge fan is the level constantly dropping as the cell wears down. But that is just me.
Oh a word about the use of the PD. The piston drive is well implemented here. This is just one of many ways of switching the light. This version is not perfect and with wear and tear on the anodizing on the light it does have a potential for failure. (read about this in the McGizmo forum).
IMHO the piston drive is a good system. Now that there are 2 commercial lights made with the PD system maybe we will see more lights with it since it is a very safe way to switch a light. add to it a computer and the sky is the limit. (as they have done in the D10 and the ARC 6 as well as the EX10.

OK I figure that is enough about my feelings about this light there is certainly enough said about it to keep a person busy for a while.
I doubt that this will help or hurt. these are just my ideas regarding the light.
If you must ask a question and I will answer them. Please feel free to comment.....
Whatever.
Yaesumofo

Overall I am pretty impressed with this light.

digitaleos · Jul 8, 2008

Are you thinking of the Nuwaii QIII.

dixemon · Jul 8, 2008

digitaleos said:
Are you thinking of the Nuwaii QIII.

thats exactly the light that came to my mind as well. I still have one, Though it hasnt seen any use in a loooooooong....time..

alibaba · Jul 8, 2008

yaesumofo said:
The piston drive is well implemented here. This is just one of many ways of switching the light. This version is not perfect and with wear and tear on the anodizing on the light it does have a potential for failure. (read about this in the McGizmo forum).
Yaesumofo
quote]

I'm curious about this statement. Could you point me to the proper thread as there are a few regarding McGizmo. Better yet, please tell me what this anodizing wear/switch failure thing is all about. I am a newb but I cannot think of any reason why the anodizing on my D10 in any way affects the function of the PD switch and am wishing to learn.......................TIA

yaesumofo · Jul 8, 2008

Re: PD concept finally spreading it's wings!!
Thanks yaesumofo and you others and good timing on this thread me thinks.

I received samples of the NiteCore from 4sevens today and was trying to figure out which of the many and prolific threads on these lights I should toss my impressions into. Heck, with this thread, I can post them here.

I can also dump some other factoids and trivia as well. :nana:

In retrospect, I think it is ironic that the PD came about because I wanted to move away from the two stage resistor switch, the McE2S in recognition of it being essentially the property of SF. Without Wayne Y's critical participation and his designing of the x2 converters, the PD probably wouldn't have happened. The basic premise was in moving the switching activity to the front or head of the light where it could happen right at the converter. In wanting to keep the lateral displacement tied to low and then high, an initial contact (kilroy) and then second contact (the contact ring) was employed. As with the two stage tail cap, you had push for momentary and twist for constant or latching. KISS and it ended up passing the test of function in the real world.

The Arc6 as mentioned uses the PD and in fact it uses the same kilroy and contact ring. However Peter came up with a much more sophisticated UI coupled to this pair of contacts.

Actually the PD can be used in a number of existing lights with interesting if not stellar or appropriate results. I picked up a Ra Twisty and with some effort, it looks like a PD pack could be made for it that would give you a 3 speed momentary/ twisty combination.

I did a proto a few years back that I showed Peter where the piston had a limit to forward movement which allowed for a hard lock out if you twisted the head off sufficiently. Because of the battery spring tension, lock out has never seemed to be a requirement though.

So to the NiteCore lights. Very impressive, all things considered!! :thumbsup:

The UI is pretty straight forward and the light can be learned. It is more complicated than I would want I think but that is purely subjective. I had a concern after looking at the pics and getting an idea of how these lights work. My concern has been confirmed now in actually messing with the lights but it is certainly something that can be overcome with some familiarity with the lights. My concern was that with the head cracked off that the UI is primarily based on one only making the first contact in the head and not proceeding further and making the second contact. I am so used to pushing the pistons in until they bottom out that I find I push too far with the piston on these NiteCore lights and end up with unexpected results. If I use the lights with the head tightened down, I can avoid any missteps. I would like to think that with some time, I could master the light in either head positions.

Although the NiteCore lights do not have a Kilroy and contact ring assembly, they do function in a similar manner with one contact and then a second contact upon further lateral displacement. They have a floating contact ring that is the first contact and it is sprung away from the converter. As it is pushed forward either by the piston or twisting the head, it ultimately makes contact with the board which sends a signal to the second "channel" for want of a better term. The mechanics of this looks real clean and viable.

I do have one concern though and it may not be significant. It appears to me that the NiteCore lights depend on the anodize film to keep components electrically isolated from each other. I have experienced in the past where the anodize film can be breached and electricity can flow. This seems most likely in situations where you have movement and the potential of abrasion. Let me put it this way. If these NiteCore lights were nickel plated, raw Al or some conductive metal like Ti, I don't think they would function as designed. I believe the contact ring could and would on occasion, pick up ground without actually being in contact with the piston. I say this because it does not appear that the contact ring on the NightCore is physically isolated from the head. It is electrically isolated from the head by virtue of the anodize film but can make physical contact. This unwanted "short" would require continuity (simultaneously) between the piston and the sleeve, sleeve and head, and head and contact ring. That would be a simultaneous breach in the anodize film on four different surfaces. This is probably very unlikely. Murphy has jumped through similar hoops for me but he is a member of my team on a full time basis for some reason. :ohgeez:

As so many have already stated, the build quality and overall assembly of these NiteCore lights is quite impressive and when you factor in the cost, Wow!!

It never fails that a new product comes out and instead of dealing with what it is, one is inclined to discuss what it could be or if you only changed this or made an adjustment to the UI.....

OK, my turn! :nana:

Nope, I am going to stick with the reality at hand which is impressive enough as it is and after all, it is what it is, to use (abuse) that phrase!
__________________
Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) ..In darkness, who better to lead the blind than the blind themselves?

alibaba said:
yaesumofo said:

The piston drive is well implemented here. This is just one of many ways of switching the light. This version is not perfect and with wear and tear on the anodizing on the light it does have a potential for failure. (read about this in the McGizmo forum).
Yaesumofo
quote]

I'm curious about this statement. Could you point me to the proper thread as there are a few regarding McGizmo. Better yet, please tell me what this anodizing wear/switch failure thing is all about. I am a newb but I cannot think of any reason why the anodizing on my D10 in any way affects the function of the PD switch and am wishing to learn.......................TIA

Click to expand...

yaesumofo · Jul 8, 2008

Yes the Nuwai QIII. Cool light was a very hot light back in the "day".
Mine has been living in my car for several years now. It works fine in this capacity.
When I bought the D10 I figured it would be a replacement for the QIII.
Then I realized that the constant current draw of the CPU or whatever computer is in the light will empty the cell. The QIII has been in my car for a couple of years and still has a good charge left in the battery and will fulfill any need I may have for it 5 years from now.
Unfortunately, like it, Love it, or not, neither of the new Nightmare Smart PD series of lights will work for me in a ultra standby mode.
So out of the car it comes and into some other as of this time unknown usage mode. Maybe it will become the "lender" light on my sound cart. you know the light which you tie to a bowling ball to lend to people when they need one of your "cool" flashlights. Ya that one. I happen to have a Bowling ball in my storage for just this purpose.:naughty:
Yaesumofo

digital eos said:
Are you thinking of the Nuwai QIII.

liquidsix · Jul 8, 2008

I'm with you on the KISS UI.. well partially. I just like to set my desired general purpose compromise for output and runtime, and forget about it. I don't need to constantly adjust and readjust my output with one hand (because my hands are always full in the dark?) every time I turn a corner. What I find annoying in a UI is when output changes are unwarranted, like an accidental double tap, or press and hold (don't ask me how), which I can see happening with this light. That's what I like about the original nitecore UI, just set it, forget it, and don't worry about any annoying mishaps.

On the other hand, despite the UI (which honestly I can't judge yet because I haven't received mine), this light looks really nice (yet simple) and I'm eager to find out how a piston performs and feels versus a clicky.

Crenshaw · Jul 8, 2008

the naysayer likes it! :nana:

now i reallly have to get one... :ohgeez:

Crenshaw

alibaba · Jul 8, 2008

yaesumofo said:
Although the NiteCore lights do not have a Kilroy and contact ring assembly, they do function in a similar manner with one contact and then a second contact upon further lateral displacement. They have a floating contact ring that is the first contact and it is sprung away from the converter. As it is pushed forward either by the piston or twisting the head, it ultimately makes contact with the board which sends a signal to the second "channel" for want of a better term. The mechanics of this looks real clean and viable.

I do have one concern though and it may not be significant. It appears to me that the NiteCore lights depend on the anodize film to keep components electrically isolated from each other. I have experienced in the past where the anodize film can be breached and electricity can flow. This seems most likely in situations where you have movement and the potential of abrasion. Let me put it this way. If these NiteCore lights were nickel plated, raw Al or some conductive metal like Ti, I don't think they would function as designed. I believe the contact ring could and would on occasion, pick up ground without actually being in contact with the piston. I say this because it does not appear that the contact ring on the NightCore is physically isolated from the head. It is electrically isolated from the head by virtue of the anodize film but can make physical contact. This unwanted "short" would require continuity (simultaneously) between the piston and the sleeve, sleeve and head, and head and contact ring. That would be a simultaneous breach in the anodize film on four different surfaces. This is probably very unlikely. Murphy has jumped through similar hoops for me but he is a member of my team on a full time basis for some reason.

Thanks for posting this! I only hope he's correct that it might not be significant tho. I wonder if this has anything to do with the "glowing while off" problem reported by a few people. I wonder if keeping the ring well lubed will cut down on abrasion?

EDIT: by the way, you do know that unscrewing the head for momentary mode is supposed to stop the current drain right?

meuge · Jul 8, 2008

yaesumofo said:
When I bought the D10 I figured it would be a replacement for the QIII.
Then I realized that the constant current draw of the CPU or whatever computer is in the light will empty the cell.

If you twist the light off, the MCU will no longer be in the intermittent wake-up mode, and the light will not drain the battery.

That's my impression from the design - can 4sevens or someone with more electronics knowledge confirm?

matrixshaman · Jul 8, 2008

Yes I think 4sevens said that if the head is unscrewed enough there is no current draw. I believe about 1/2 turn or a little more puts it in the tactical mode and I think at that point it is not drawing any current in standby mode.

Good write up and analysis yaesumofo! Goes far beyond what anyone else has covered with this light and I think I've read most of the threads on it.

yaesumofo · Jul 8, 2008

Thanks for the compliment.
As some of you know I call 'em as I see 'em even if it is an unpopular point of view.

I would like to write just a little more about the D10 here for a minute.

With the overwhelming desire here on the CPF for pure power I am surprised that NightCore chose to NOT push the smart PD system to give these lights the ability to run the light at the maximum possible flux.

Personally I appreciate the fact that Nightcore went down this route. There are just so many lights which are designed to bring the (all of them) components to their knees.
I really do not need yet another light which is the brightest on the block.

When looking at the current crop of flashlights on the market today the one light which comes to mind (other than the QIII believe it or not is the HDS twisty. The fact that Nightcore choose to make the light from 7075 elevates this light well above so many others including ALL of the fenix lights. Why? have a look here for some sheer numbers:
http://www.google.com/search?source...&rls=GGLL,GGLL:2007-53,GGLL:en&q=6061+vs+7075

7075 is an amazingly strong stuff. I have a feeling that one could subject the D1 to a significant amount of abuse (ala the hds twisty) and the light would survive. OK I am guessing here and don't feel like destroying mine in for the sake of proving my point. I have no doubt somebody will.

The thing about it is that id compared to a HDS twisty, the light is available, has a dual interface (twisty of button operation) it is as bright, and is likely close to being as heavy duty. oh and at 1/3 of the price. Not bad really.

I am not an advocate of buying lights made overseas. There are design elements which originate here in the form of the Piston actuator, this makes me feel a little better (lets face it most of the designs on electronic equipment do not originate in the country of manufacture).
I have said I don't [plan on edc'ing the D10. I edc a Lunasol 20 and I doubt this will change anytime soon.
That is OK I will carry the light with me for the next few days and on my upcoming trip in order to put the light through it's paces.
I may even do a followup on this thread for those who are interested.

There is a lot of attention on the smart PD series of lights. It is well deserved. Maybe more deserved than all of the hoopla which surrounded the Fenix lights when they arrived.
Nightcore has been around for a while. I will be interested in seeing where they take this roller coaster ride.
Yaesumofo

matrixshaman said:
Yes I think 4sevens said that if the head is unscrewed enough there is no current draw. I believe about 1/2 turn or a little more puts it in the tactical mode and I think at that point it is not drawing any current in standby mode.

Good write up and analysis yaesumofo! Goes far beyond what anyone else has covered with this light and I think I've read most of the threads on it.

adamlau · Jul 8, 2008

A fan of KISS here as well. The UI of the LS27 is simple and neat, so much so that even my idiot cousin figured it out in under five minutes

. LS27 KISS is what I would like to see in the Smart PD series of lights.

Gunner12 · Jul 8, 2008

yaesumofo not disliking a non McGizmo/HDS/Semi-custom/Custom light! Wow. The light is made in China too! Double Wow! That's something you won't see often.

But it does seem like you like the 7075 Al more then any other component of the light though.

It always seem like you picking apart the errors of every light you receive that is under $100 and highlight them. The more expensive and semi-custom/custom lights are the one you praise the most.

I can see why you do that though.

Good review yaesumofo, thanks!

nanotech17 · Jul 8, 2008

dude with

write up.
:thumbsup:

yaesumofo · Jul 8, 2008

You are right it is a rare thing that I will take the time to make note on a light like this.
As I said if this light did not use the PD system designed by McGizmo I wouldn't have even given it a second look.
That said.
Anyway you look at it we all have choices to make.
early on it was between maglite and surefire. That was it pretty much.
Now there is a lot of competition mostly from Asia.

OK the first fenix light that came out (I don't remember the name of the thing But I still have mine) When that first Fenix came out on the outside it looked ok and it functioned. On the inside there were solder blobs the threads were less than smooth and generally the light would NOT be considered acceptable by many on the CPF.
What has happened is that there are a few companies who have learned a lot in a very short time. they have worked very hard on QC THEY HAVE WORKED VERY HARD on driver design looking closely at reference designs and worked them into flashlights that have more features than you can shake a stick at. IMHO this feature rich attitude has just about run it's course and we will be seeing fewer features in favor of efficiency and quality.

Look the point is that these companies are in it to make money and they will.
Yes I am impressed by things like using PREMIUM materials. whether we are talking about LED's (they have become MUCH better and cheaper)Drivers, (they have become MUCH better and cheaper), reflectors they mostly used to be plastic, windows, they too used to be plastic, O-rings, most of the better lights use higher quality )-rings now. Materials used to make the lights are better too. IMHO the use of 7075 is a HUGE step forward. every flashlight maker USA or otherwise would do well to follow this trend (Nothing new BTW Other lights have been made from 7075) just interesting to see it coming from a smaller Chinese manufacture. Really it is a good thing.

The difference between the first fenix lights and the lights they are making today (just a couple of short years later) is HUGE. They are MUCH better the QC is the key and they recognize that they need work in this area and they have invested some of the necessary resources into quality control. This will be more common to companies who choose to survive in this dog eat dog business.

Like it or not coming from a person who loves his titanium beauty's, and will continue to do so I can still be impressed with new Asian made gear.
Are these lights perfect. NO not by any means.
I assume we will continue to see better and better lights coming from the far east.
It is my hope that Domestic companies like MagLight as well as Surefire pay attention since some of these far eastern companies are hell bent on improving their bottom line. High quality product is only one part of an overall strategy required to take market share from the aforementioned companies.

I do not like buying flashlights (or much or anything for that matter) made outside the USA. Like it or not I don't have a lot of choice. I buy lights from SureFire, and custom makers most of the time. once in a while a light like the Nightcore D10 with design elements which I really like comes along.
Hey to be frank I am looking closely at the Nightcore extreme. Being Surefire e compatible is a big plus. I doubt I will get one but it certainly is a step in an interesting direction.

OK so my point is this. I am an advocate of USA made equipment. I support my favorite flashlight builders whenever possible wherever they are. I prefer to buy American Given our current economy it is really important. Lights like the Nightcore aren't perfect but they are getting better and are certainly worthy of keeping an eye on.
I will be continuing to look at these lights. I will also continue to concentrate my flashlight spending on American made product as well as custom or semi custom lights made by my favorite light makers.
Yaesumofo

Gunner12 said:
yaesumofo not disliking a non McGizmo/HDS/Semi-custom/Custom light! Wow. The light is made in China too! Double Wow! That's something you won't see often.

But it does seem like you like the 7075 Al more then any other component of the light though.

It always seem like you picking apart the errors of every light you receive that is under $100 and highlight them. The more expensive and semi-custom/custom lights are the one you praise the most.

I can see why you do that though.

Good review yaesumofo, thanks!

LED-holic · Jul 9, 2008

Good post, yaesumofo. I will buy American if the American manufacturers would get their behinds in gear and offer us some compelling lights that are not years behind the asian lights, and at a decent price.

Free market competition, that's what made America great. If our manufacturers are not willing to compete in this space, of affordable premium lights, then us consumers have no choice but to spend our cash elsewhere.

Beamhead · Jul 9, 2008

Nice review, regarding the failure if the anodize wears off, it will still work with the head screwed down(it will only lose the tactical/momentary/twisty mode) which still may be of concern to some. This is verified by a member who got a bare aluminum model.

litetube · Jul 9, 2008

Beamhead can you link me to that post about the Bare version working? I saw this thread and it was of interest to me because my Ex10 has vertical void lines inside the head/body in 4 places down to bare metal and I want to know definitively if this is an issue or not. I dont want to lose any features and was told this is normal during the anodizing process.

Thanx if you can link .

Gunner12 · Jul 9, 2008

Great post and a good amount of info too yaesumofo, that why I like reading your posts.

I agree with most of the things you have wrote, and the things I don't totally agree with, I can see why that's your choice.

The cram as many modes into a light thing has gotten boring and make the lights too complex.

I hope at least Maglite takes notice. When they aren't finding a way to sue other companies for making flashlights, they should really look into ways of improving their products(performance wise). It won't cost that much.

Just MY "A first impression" of the D10

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