need a bench mark to move foward

I am just getting into these high end lights. and have posted this question as sort of an add on in my last post but I recieved several answers.

I currently have a 21 led 3 aaa batt light bought at farm and home. Name brand is "Grip" all the packaging said (if I rember correctly) is something x brighter than other flashlights( a lot of lights advertise that way it seems). And it does seem pretty bright. Anyway how bright is it??

I am really going to feel like a fool if I spend $ 50 to $300 bucks on a light that is not as bright or as bright as my current 10 buck light.

I have seen these little cheapo's with as many as 100 led they are all over the place but I never see lumin, candlepower, ect... ratings on them. Why??

thanks
hangn9

ps I am not really looking for what to buy. I took you-alls advise on the Zebra light and its being shipped. I am just quietely reading all of your posts on lights to educate myself before I take the big plunge and purchase my main light. And by the way this is by far the most mature and well informed forum I have ever had the privilage to be a part of.

Well I can give it a try...
The 21 leds are cheap 5mm leds. They're likely being overdriven in direct drive from the 3xAAA (which by the way is the scourge of the flashlight world for power sources!). So due to the fact that 5mm LEDs have no heatsink and are being driven above spec the LEDs will likely start burning out after some use. The tailcap reverse clickie buttons on those are pretty nototious for failing as well.
So from the standpoint of reliability yur ligt doesn't rate very high.

Now then about your specific question of brightness. These 5mm LEDs output around 4 lumens each by my guess. So 4×21 = 84 lumens in theory. But not all of that light actually goes forward. So you loose some of it there. Also the plastic window on the light blocks maybe 20% of the output. So in reality you're getting less than 50 lumens "out the front."

I'm doing a lot of guesswork but I think a generous estimate of usable lumens for that light is under 50. I'd be interested in seeing what some others would guestimate as well.

There's a lot to gain by upgrading to a $50 light.

The 21 led 3aaa light is probably around 20-40 lumens. Depends on the current provided to the leds. Lux is probably between 165-300.

You don't see ratings on those lights because they're cheap and not aimed at high end flashlight buyers. Also their actual numbers are probably disappointing. That 21 led 3aaa is probably equivalent to a good 1 watt led flashlight, though I could be wrong.

Edit: My estimates for the 21 led light are based on these reviews.
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/i2tl_s21.htm
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/muyan_21led.htm

My guess would also be 20-40 lumens. The shower head lights are either very over driven, or very under driven. With 21 LED's on 3xAAA, my guess goes to very under driven.

But either way, the quality is undoubtedly dismal compared to what most of us would consider "decent budget" lights, let alone high end

Marduke said:

My guess would also be 20-40 lumens. The shower head lights are either very over driven, or very under driven. With 21 LED's on 3xAAA, my guess goes to very under driven.



But either way, the quality is undoubtedly dismal compared to what most of us would consider "decent budget" lights, let alone high end

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Actually you could be right about the under driven... I forget that we're probibly talking alkiline cells. Fresh alkiline cells may still overdrive initially. It's so hard to guess with these kinds of lights.

Last Christmas my friend gave his son a Dorcy LED light with like 9 led's. He shined it in our faces saying look how bright it is! And it did appear bright if shined directly in the eyes, but if you shined it at your hand and looked at the output it was noticeably dismal. I went and got my SF 9P with Malkoff M60 and said don't look directly at this one, then shined it at my hand point blank. His dad and son now own one each, you are welcome Gene!

actually, i would say that the standard these days for pocket lights is at least 100 lumens, but the standard for "bright" in any regular (meaing single emitter, 2-3 CR123A kind) is at least 200 lumens, close to 300 lumens. Emitter lumens that is.

showerhead lights are generally frowned upon.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/202032
there is a list of very good value for money lights.

Crenshaw

pp its like your lookin at me, yes the tailcap did fall out. thanks all for the info. yeah I know its cheap and frowned upon here.

I was really lookin @ that new surefire because its high power and very adjustable. I would need to carry several lights for the different types of tasks I am required to do at night. But it looks like I will retire (I am 42) before its released.

Anyway thanks all

hangn

Most conservative singe primary lights such as the Novatac, Surefire L1, and Nightcore EX10 will produce at least 250% more light out the front than the 21 LED light that you're using now.

PhantomPhoton said:

Well I can give it a try...
3xAAA (which by the way is the scourge of the flashlight world for power sources!).

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I have heard this about 3xAAA a few times now since joining CPF, and I was wondering if someone could tell me why it is so bad? I'm a newbie...please enlighten me!

Is 3xAA also bad?? What about 4xAAA?? Thanks!

Badger_Girl said:

I have heard this about 3xAAA a few times now since joining CPF, and I was wondering if someone could tell me why it is so bad? I'm a newbie...please enlighten me!

Is 3xAA also bad?? What about 4xAAA?? Thanks!

Click to expand...

In short, no regulation, poor power density, flimsy carrier, etc.

Do you want the full out soap box rant on why it sucks??

Marduke said:

In short, no regulation, poor power density, flimsy carrier, etc.

Do you want the full out soap box rant on why it sucks??

Click to expand...

Honestly? yes, I would like that. As objectively as possible. Feel free to PM if need be.

Thanks, I am really curious. And also, why is it worse than 3xAA or 4xAAA?

Thanks.

Badger_Girl said:

Honestly? yes, I would like that. As objectively as possible. Feel free to PM if need be.

Thanks, I am really curious. And also, why is it worse than 3xAA or 4xAAA?

Thanks.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure 3xAAA has to be worse than other combinations. In practice it seems to always be the cheapest least elegant solution to driving an LED.

The typical circuit seems to be 3 cells connected direct drive and relying on the internal resistance to limit the current to safe levels. This will possibly over-drive the LED at first and certainly have no regulation and end up under-driving the LED until you get tired of the output and change the battery.

Why worse than 3xAA or 4xAAA? It's easier to theorize why they result in better circuits. The 3xAA will not normally sag enough to limit the current without additional circuit elements. The 4xAAA will have too much voltage to sag enough and again need a more sophisticated circuit. (In both cases the circuit would be at least a resister, which is less variable than just batteries. In the best case you may get a DC-DC regulator of some sort.)

Off the top of my head that's all that I can think of, but surely it's enough to be skeptical of the class.

Several reasons:

1) The battery carrier is one more thing to loose or break

2) 3xAAA lights are almost always direct drive, without regulation (they dim constantly)

3) AAA cells have little capacity, and don't hold up well under high current loads. You can almost replace 3xAAA's with a single AA cell. When you can get a 1xAA light that outperforms a much larger 3xAAA light, why use the inferior format?

4) With 3 cells running direct drive in series, you have an increased chance of over discharging one of them, leading to reverse charging. This can lead to a dead cell, or a messy leak and a ruined light. Worst case with lithium cells, you can have an "event"

5) The battery carrier adds more resistance into the system

6) The 3 cell direct drive design often relies on the higher internal resistance of alkaline cells. Alkaline cells are an outdated tech which don't belong in modern electronics, so most of us here use NiMH or lithium instead. Because of the lower internal resistance, the light is driven harder than it was designed to, and could fail. (In short, it's back to cheap, poor design).

7) Batteries (and chargers) usually come and work in even numbers, so dealing with 3 can be a pain sometimes.

In short, the manufacturer is trying to save a few bucks since Joe Public usually doesn't know the difference anyhow. Ignorance is bliss.

I could go on, but...

4xAAA can lead to many of the same conclusions, but it really depends on the light. Sometimes 4xAAA is done just for the shape in a 2x2 config. It's a rather uncommon format anyhow.

3xAA is rarely seen in handhelds, and more often in the bigger headlamps. It has some of the same issues, but not for the same reasons. First off, 3xAA cells don't sag in voltage under load like AAA cells do, so when using NiMH cells you can get some very decent pseudo regulation. 3xAA is usually still direct drive, but for a very good reason. In headlamps in particular, you don't want a non-shielded, regulated light 1 inch away from your brain unless you want the EMF to give you cancer. But again, the specific pros and cons of 3xAA is much more dependant on the specific light in question.

My guess would also be in the 30-60 lumen range.

As for other lights, remember that there are a lot of lights other then Surefire that have high output and multiple modes. Example, Fenix lights, Wolfeyes(compared by many with Surefire), Olights and so on.

Try to avoid 3 cell(1.5v) lights if possible, unless you know for a fact that that light has regulation and a good name.