The Grey Peril...or...Sorry I didn't see you!

The Grey Peril...or...Sorry I didn\'t see you!

The Grey Peril is back! Making its debut in the Eighties, and seemingly making a return today!I'm talking about cars! It seems as if every third car is a shade of grey...nice camouflage on the tarmac and a;lmost invisible in the fog! (Do people know what fog lights are for these days...other than pose value dazzling us poor motorcyclists in clear conditions!!)Drivers of these almost invisible vehicles are very strange. They drive around almost invisible in fog and rain, then claim that "they couldn't see you", despite the headlights, the bright chrome and the highly reflective fluorescent clothing! Is it the same elsewhere in the world?Surely we need to be making our cars safer, and they are for the occupants, but if you cannot see them looming out of the fog, they can bee lethal! Us bikers are always being asked to "be seen, be safe, so how about car drivers, using lights and reflective tape... bringing back chrome might be a good idea!So, car drivers... be seen, be safe!

Re: The Grey Peril...or...Sorry I didn\'t see you!

I call it selective Blindness: they do not see anything on less than 4 tires (car, truck, etc.)

Re: The Grey Peril...or...Sorry I didn\'t see you!

Add to that in snowy climates, a white auto without lights during or shortly after a fresh snow is totally invisible. I think that daytime running lights in cars are actually a bit of a danger because people who drive in a car equiped with DRL and then get in and drive a car without almost always forget to turn on the headlights until it is too dark to read the speedometer. DRLs also will hide an auto (and a motorcycle, unforunately) when they are silhouetted against a bright sky. The brightness of the light will be close enough to the brightness of the background to hide most of the auto/cycle.

There is no universally good way to be seen. Thus there is no universally good law to be passed to enhance your visibility. You also can't account for the fact that the human eye actually has a blind spot around the optic nerve connection. People don't percieve it, but studies have been done that show that entire street signs and cars will disappear inside that blind spot if your eyes don't change their point of focus frequently. And more blind spots start to appear as you get older. An elderly person who claims that they didn't see the motorcyclist they just hit usually is telling the truth - they tend to have only small parts of the retina that still don't have blind spots in them. If they have their attention focused on a point down the road or on a sign, that's all that can be seen. What is everybody else's excuse? They only spend about 10% of their time while driving actually paying attention to their driving.

Re: The Grey Peril...or...Sorry I didn\'t see you!

what exactly are DRLs? I drive with my headlights on all the time, is that considered DRLs? They may have saved my life the other day.
I was driving up Mulholland road Sunday, into the Santa Monica mountains to the Paramount Ranch for the fiddle contest. It's a narrow two lane blacktop, the mountain straight up on one side, a long drop down the other.. a red convertible coming downhill in the opposite direction at high speed decided to pass the car ahead of it, swerved into my lane and nearly hit me. Would I have had my first head on collision, (and maybe my last) if not for the headlights (and the horn?)..?
(..as they sped away, the passenger leaned half his body out the window looking back at me -- why? -- to see if I was turning around to chase them? To intimidate me not to? Would the police have responded to a "wreckless guy nearly killed me" call? ..I tend to doubt it.)

Re: The Grey Peril...or...Sorry I didn\'t see you!

DRL (Daytime Running Lights) are headlights that turn on automatically with the ignition switch. I believe they are mandatory for new vehicles in Canada (somebody will chime in if I'm wrong here) and they are standard on many models of cars in the US (and sometimes offered as an option). Typically they run during daylight with the high-beams at 6 volts, and a light sensor will switch the lights to a "nightime" mode (full 12 volts) so that the lights run as normal with manually selected low beam/high beam. The lights cannot be turned off with the ignition on.

Just to clear up, I'm not advocating not having lights on during rainy, foggy, snowy, inclement weather in general. But the DRL's do create lazy habits for drivers that are used to them that can lead to dangerous situations, such as driving without lights when they are needed and not realizing it - because their "other" car turns on the lights automatically.

Re: The Grey Peril...or...Sorry I didn\'t see you!

DRLs are the law in Canada, but not the U.S. It's standard equipment on GM cars, but I don't know if any others have made them standard or not.

Re: The Grey Peril...or...Sorry I didn\'t see you!

I live in Canada and I think they're great. All northern countries should have them due to extended periods of dusk and dawn, plus lousy weather.

Re: The Grey Peril...or...Sorry I didn\'t see you!

We motorcyclists nearly always have our lights on in day or night... it helps to improve visability somewhat.
My Lifan has twin Daylight riding lights wired to the sidelight circuit which gives me improved visability in all weathers.

Re: The Grey Peril...or...Sorry I didn\'t see you!

Aren't daytime running lights required in the UK? They're mandatory in Canada for ALL vehicles.

I haven't seen any studies on the physiological aspects of these lights, but based on my own casual, unscientific observations, they really help. DRL's are quickly spotted in one's peripheral vision.

Without them, your brain would tend to simply 'tune-out' a grey-on-grey shape of an oncoming car out of the corner of your eye in foggy conditions, for example.

Re: The Grey Peril...or...Sorry I didn\'t see you!

It isn't mandatory to use lights in daytime unless it is foggy or raining, but most bikers keep lights on as a matter of course as they do make you a lot more visible. The problem is that motorists don't tend to understand the law when it comes to daytime light usage and you have some motorists driving around with foglights blazing on all four corners of thier car, whilst the next one dissappears into the haze with only his in-headlight parking lights on, which on the move are practically useless as far as visibility goes. Volvo had the best idea with thier 21W daytime lights...

Re: The Grey Peril...or...Sorry I didn\'t see you!

I think daytime lights are required for motorcycles in most/all US states, right? Is this not so in europe? I've never seen much talk in motorcycle circles about having to change *that* setting when moving bikes back and forth. Emissions, turn signals, etc., sure, but not 'always on headlight'.

I hate people who use their light incorrectly. Dark, rainy day (4:00pm) guy drives by with *no* lights on. Cop drives the other way and goes on. *boggle*

Another one I hate is the 'european fog light' problem. Some importers don't realize that the rear-fog light is not legal in the US--it violates the rules for real illumination by DOT standards. But some dealers don't disable it when the car arrives in the states. I mostly see this on Audi's for some reason.

I, for one, hate DRLs, but I run my low beam headlights all the time as well as my 'driving' lights. Both have low angle emissions so as to not cause a hazard, but with still enough 'splatter' to provide an increase in visibility--especially if condition are bad.

Re: The Grey Peril...or...Sorry I didn\'t see you!

Mandatory DRL's are a great idea. Cheap, easy and even if they only saved 10 lives a year, they'd be worth it.

We've had them in Canada for about 10 years and I'm convinced.

Re: The Grey Peril...or...Sorry I didn\'t see you!

I've been driving with my headlights on low beam in daylight since 1966. It's cost me a bit more in headlights, but I'll agree with the studies that the USAF and Bell System quoted to me that it increases visibility to others, and slightly reduces the accident rate.

Re: The Grey Peril...or...Sorry I didn\'t see you!

I didn't WANT to buy a white car. I HAD to buy a white car because they didn't have the blue one I wanted on the lot and my 88 honda accord had caught fire a few days before and I needed a new car! I couldn't wait for them to ship in another one.

I don't drive with my lights on all the time, but am very concious of it in even cloudy days or stormy weather. I always turn them on before the other folks on the road do.

Re: The Grey Peril...or...Sorry I didn\'t see you!

Empowertorch, it is the same in the US as I have read that light gray (normally called "silver" here when referring to car paint) cars are the most popular color, now outnumbering white which was the most popular color a few years back. And styles are more monochromatic these days, removing much of the visual contrast previously offered by differently-colored bumpers, grills, mirrors, side trim, etc. In my opinion, silver or gray is the worst color for a vehicle when you consider the safety implications, but few people on 4 wheels give much thought to safety. Light blue is only slightly better. I agree that drivers should be responsible for their own visibility, but no one is held accountable for it.

I personally drive a white car, which is pretty visible (I never have to drive on snow where I live). I installed a DRL circuit on my vehicle. If I had a gray car I would leave my lights on for sure and I would want to add some contrast to it such as a bright front license plate or something. Most people would not want to add reflective tape to their car, but I found some pin-striping in reflective material that I added to the side trim on my car. Since the color matches my paint, it's invisible in the daylight and improves visibility at night.

Re: The Grey Peril...or...Sorry I didn\'t see you!

[ QUOTE ]
PhotonBoy said:
Mandatory DRL's are a great idea. Cheap, easy and even if they only saved 10 lives a year, they'd be worth it.

We've had them in Canada for about 10 years and I'm convinced.

[/ QUOTE ]

I completely disagree. Manditory DRLs are a hazard and should not be used. They cause more traffic problems than I could imagine they solve. Politicians who advocate them should be put agains the wall.

Re: The Grey Peril...or...Sorry I didn\'t see you!

Lurker,

I drive a white car with black and chrome accents. I drive with my low beams and driving lights on (nowhere near as much glare as half power high beam DRLs), so I should be fine? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Hmmm, pinstriping in reflective material..... I feel a pull towards the auto parts store.....

Re: The Grey Peril...or...Sorry I didn\'t see you!

One thing to remember is while having headlights or DRLs on during daylight hours makes a vehicle more visible, the glare of the lights makes it harder to ascertain distance and closing rate [due to the reduction in definition of the physical attributes of the vehicle]. How's that for a run-on sentence? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Dan

Re: The Grey Peril...or...Sorry I didn\'t see you!

[ QUOTE ]
Willmore said:
[ QUOTE ]
PhotonBoy said:
Mandatory DRL's are a great idea. Cheap, easy and even if they only saved 10 lives a year, they'd be worth it.

We've had them in Canada for about 10 years and I'm convinced.

[/ QUOTE ]

I completely disagree. Manditory DRLs are a hazard and should not be used. They cause more traffic problems than I could imagine they solve. Politicians who advocate them should be put agains the wall.

[/ QUOTE ]

No need to post Willmore, the rest of the country already knows about driving in New Jersey. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif

Re: The Grey Peril...or...Sorry I didn\'t see you!

Heh.

I used to live in Joisey - on da shore.

Bad drivin' 'round there.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

(Really, not TOO much worse than most other places ... )