What is wrong with my new Surefire?

PaulHsu

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I have used my C3 only for very very easy household duties when I picked it up and it was not lighting up. I wish I would have paid more attention to whether it was actually left on - but I assumed i left it on and tried new batteries and checked the old ones with volt meter ( 2.73 ) but it still won't light.

What would be the next step in determining if the bulb is bad or if the button is bad?

Any idea what would typically cause a failure like this?
 

Justin Case

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Are your replacement 123A cells known to be good, i.e., they successfully light up some other flashlight? Put your meter to the SF lamp assembly to check for continuity. Pull out the LA, switch your meter to ohms mode, and put the probes on the center and outer springs. If the filament is blown, then you should not get continuity. Put known-good LA and cells into the battery but remove the tailcap (this test will remove the tailcap from the circuit, in case you have a bad tailcap). Short across the bottom terminal of the exposed battery and the bare aluminum face of the C2's battery tube to complete the circuit. Does the flashlight light up? Again, with known-good LA and cells, this time remove the bezel but keep the tailcap on. Hand press the LA down into the top of the battery tube. Does the LA light up? This test removes the bezel from the circuit, in case screwing down the bezel doesn't press the LA downward far enough to complete the circuit.
 

PaulHsu

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Are your replacement 123A cells known to be good, i.e., they successfully light up some other flashlight? Put your meter to the SF lamp assembly to check for continuity. Pull out the LA, switch your meter to ohms mode, and put the probes on the center and outer springs. If the filament is blown, then you should not get continuity. Put known-good LA and cells into the battery but remove the tailcap (this test will remove the tailcap from the circuit, in case you have a bad tailcap). Short across the bottom terminal of the exposed battery and the bare aluminum face of the C2's battery tube to complete the circuit. Does the flashlight light up? Again, with known-good LA and cells, this time remove the bezel but keep the tailcap on. Hand press the LA down into the top of the battery tube. Does the LA light up? This test removes the bezel from the circuit, in case screwing down the bezel doesn't press the LA downward far enough to complete the circuit.

Crap!

Bulb has ohms.

Removing the bezel and pressing down the LA doesn't light it up.

I tried to "Short across the bottom terminal of the exposed battery and the bare aluminum face of the C2's battery tube to complete the circuit" with the probe stick with no luck ( I hope I am doing it right ).

I also did one last thing. I took off the tailcap and measured between the exposed battery and the bare aluminum body and got good voltage.

Would this mean the tailcap is bad somehow? Can you suggest in better detail how to "Short across the bottom terminal of the exposed battery and the bare aluminum face of the C2's battery tube to complete the circuit"? Would I just use a bit of copper wire? Does the battery need to be pressed down hard somehow while I am doing this?

Thanks for your awesome post too btw :)

edit: I just put a 9v battery across the bulb points and got the bulb to light up - so it is definitely a good bulb

can the tailcap be disassembled?
 
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tsmith35

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I'd contact SF before going too far. Here's their warranty...

THE SUREFIRE NO-HASSLE GUARANTEE
Lamps will burn out and batteries will be used up. Everything else is covered by our no-hassle guarantee: If it breaks, we fix it.
 

Justin Case

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On the press the LA down with the bezel removed test, I think I forgot to mention that you need to turn on the tailcap. Either click it on if it's a clicky or twist it on if it is a twisty. Then when you press down on the LA to complete the circuit, the LA should light up if all components are working right. If the LA doesn't light, it isn't 100% certain that the problem isn't the bezel. It still could be the bezel as well as something else lower down. But to simplify things, I would assume that the bezel is ok, and there is just one problem, and it is lower down on the light (either the LA, batteries, or the tailcap).

On shorting across the battery and the exposed part of the SF battery tube with the tailcap removed test, you already kind of did this test when you tested for battery voltage. But for completeness, switch your meter to the high amps mode (typically 10A or 20A). Put the negative probe on the battery terminal. Put the other probe on the exposed end of the battery tube. If everything is working right, the LA should now light up. You should read about 1A of current draw if you have the P90 LA. If you have the P91, then you might get about 2.5A.

If the problem looks like the tailcap, first make sure all contacts are clean for both the tailcap and the exposed aluminum face on the battery tube. Put one probe from your meter on the tailcap spring. Put the other probe on the aluminum "saucer" part that you can see between the spring and the tailcap inner wall. That's the part that contacts the exposed aluminum of the battery tube when you press the tailcap button, completing the circuit. If the tailcap is a clicky, then click it on and off. When off, you should get infinite resistance. Clicked on, you should get continuity. For a twisty, ,wWhen you put your meter probes on the two areas described above, you should get continuity if the twisty tailcap is working right.

SF twisty tailcaps are very simple and use big chunks of metal, so it's hard to imagine that something has gone wrong with one. SF clickies are generally less robust (mainly under high amp loads), but still usually reliable.

From your test results, it does seem that your tailcap is the potential problem source, though. The one key test is to short across the battery and the battery tube to see if the LA lights up. If the LA lights up, then you know that your cells (and the LA, but you've already determined that) are good. Measuring resting voltage of 123A cells isn't 100% reliable in assessing battery condition (I assume by "good voltage", you measured around 9.0V-9.6V resting voltage).

Assuming that you aren't using an SF clicky like a Z49 or Z59, then I believe that the stock C3 tailcap is the same as the twisty, lockout tailcap on the SureFire 6P. CPF has posts on how to disassemble these tailcaps. Here is one thread on the subject.
 
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kz1000s1

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I'd contact SF before going too far. Here's their warranty...

THE SUREFIRE NO-HASSLE GUARANTEE
Lamps will burn out and batteries will be used up. Everything else is covered by our no-hassle guarantee: If it breaks, we fix it.

They will even replace a lamp if there's a problem with it. I had a P91 lamp with an intermittent open problem and they sent me a new one no charge. Even if you break something and it's your fault they'll probably fix it free. One of my kids dropped my A2 on the floor resulting in a chipped lens and a flat spot on the bezel. They replaced the lens and bezel for free and I had it back in a week.
 

^^Nova^^

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The standard Surefire twisty tailcaps (as found on the 6P, 9P, C2 and C3) are very reliable, I would be surprised if the problem is there. A clicky on the other hand could have an issue.

Cheers,
Nova
 

PaulHsu

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I talked to them on the phone and ran some diagnostics similar to what we discussed here - they decided I had a bad tailcap and sent me off a new one. What a pleasure to deal with their customer service. :twothumbs

I've never had anything go wrong with my surefires before so I wasn't sure what to expect. :D
 

Justin Case

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Did you try screwing down the tailcap all the way to get constant-on operation? In momentary mode, did you make sure that the lockout tailcap was screwed down far enough to disengage the lock out? Have you tried cleaning the applicable metal contacts relevant to the tailcap -- the unanodized end of the battery tube, and the matching metal contact in the tailcap?
 

Search

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I hope the OP lets us know if it really was the tailcap.

I just find it hard to believe a twisty failed. I mean, they are so simple in operation it's very hard to believe.
 

Justin Case

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I can envision how a LOTC can fail, but it would seem quite far-fetched for momentary-on.

For momentary-on operation, if a foreign object gets in-between the plastic retaining ring and the metal button, then the button travel might be restricted such that you can't complete the circuit. However, if you screw down the tailcap all the way, the circuit has to complete eventually and you will be in constant-on mode.

Less far-fetched, constant-on mode could still fail if the electrical contact between the tailcap and the battery tube were gunked up. But simple inspection of the metal surfaces should clarify that issue.

I suppose it is also possible that the center spring isn't making good electrical contact where it seats in the tailcap.

I'm ignoring sources of obvious physical damage that could also cause problems.
 
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