A rant on UI

Mikey McMikerson

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Feb 14, 2010
Messages
1
Hello, I recently got into multi-level output light collecting as an interest branch off from collecting multitools. After reading a lot about various brands and having owned (and mostly sold) a Nitecore, Jetbeam, Fenix, Zebralight and Olight, I'm amazed by how poorly interfaces are designed on most of these lights.

I want to put forward some UI principles that I think make a lot of sense. Tell me if they're unreasonable.

***Never have turning the light off for some amount of time be a method of changing modes.***

When you shut something down you expect it to come back on the way it was before being shutdown, or, for lights too good for a memory function, to a pre-set start mode. Turning the light off, then deciding you want it on again within a couple seconds should not leave you staring and a freakin' strobe. Being extra mindful about turning your light on and off is not necessary for good designs, and even if you are this feature can still cause issues with the light in momentary mode. Also, making the off-on timer .2 seconds instead of 2 seconds does not fix the inherently poor idea.

***If the user does not mean to enter SOS mode, he should NEVER see it.***

Putting SOS and strobe on the same function path as high med and low is just stupid. There is no good reason to go through two useless eye-straining modes to get from med to low. I own lights that manage not to do it, there is no benefit to doing it, therefor every light that does just has LAZY PROGRAMING.

***Keep it SIMPLE***

Look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czUxszAf-JU#t=23m29s

That looks like a joke. Like if someone asked how to start your car, and you replied, "put the key in the ignition, turn it back and forth 3 times, get out and do two laps around the car, and on the second lap tap yakety sax on the hood, then get back in the car within 2 seconds of the last note and it will start."

It boggles my mind that an engineer in a workshop somewhere though all that work to get more than 2 light settings was a good idea.

Any light that includes a settings menu is going to have a pretty un-elegant UI because of how hard it is to make sure it doesn't get entered accidentally with only 1 button and a twist cap to utilize for input.


On my Nitecore D10 you can easily select a range of brightnesses, and nothing gets in your way. You don't get strobe when you don't want. You don't have to do ridiculous button combos to make your selection. It is simple, functional, and offers countless light level settings. No other AA light I've come across stands up to it's UI. The Zebralight 501w I have is a functional UI, but not quite is elegant as the D10. Everything else has been pretty disappointing.
 

kramer5150

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Sep 6, 2005
Messages
6,328
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Palo Alto, CA
Life is about having choices. If its strengths match your preferences... you buy it. Its really that simple.

The difficult part is knowing what your preferences and dislikes are. THATS the hard part, and as you have discovered it takes several (sometimes expensive) purchases to figure this out. But thats all part of the hobby.
 
Last edited:

LowFlux

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Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
210
Life is about having choices. If its strengths match your preferences... you buy it. Its really that simple.
2nd. Different strokes for different folks. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean there isn't someone who loves the UI you dislike.
 

jp2515

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Aug 14, 2008
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1,204
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Los Angeles County CA
Life is about having choices. If its strengths match your preferences... you buy it. Its really that simple.

Indeed it is. Some lights are simple to operate (hey its only 1 mode) other than that each manufacturers have their switch own designs that can get confusing. My personal preference is for dual or tri mode lights that are controlled by the head (Surefire) or twist (Nitecore, 4Sevens) or the ring control lights.
 

JaguarDave-in-Oz

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Dec 3, 2009
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Australian bush
Hello, I recently got into multi-level output light collecting as an interest branch off from collecting multitools. After reading a lot about various brands and having owned (and mostly sold) a Nitecore, Jetbeam, Fenix, Zebralight and Olight, I'm amazed by how poorly interfaces are designed on most of these lights.

I want to put forward some UI principles that I think make a lot of sense. Tell me if they're unreasonable.

***Never have turning the light off for some amount of time be a method of changing modes.***

When you shut something down you expect it to come back on the way it was before being shutdown, or, for lights too good for a memory function, to a pre-set start mode. Turning the light off, then deciding you want it on again within a couple seconds should not leave you staring and a freakin' strobe. Being extra mindful about turning your light on and off is not necessary for good designs, and even if you are this feature can still cause issues with the light in momentary mode. Also, making the off-on timer .2 seconds instead of 2 seconds does not fix the inherently poor idea.

***If the user does not mean to enter SOS mode, he should NEVER see it.***

Putting SOS and strobe on the same function path as high med and low is just stupid. There is no good reason to go through two useless eye-straining modes to get from med to low. I own lights that manage not to do it, there is no benefit to doing it, therefor every light that does just has LAZY PROGRAMING.

***Keep it SIMPLE***

Look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czUxszAf-JU#t=23m29s

That looks like a joke. Like if someone asked how to start your car, and you replied, "put the key in the ignition, turn it back and forth 3 times, get out and do two laps around the car, and on the second lap tap yakety sax on the hood, then get back in the car within 2 seconds of the last note and it will start."

It boggles my mind that an engineer in a workshop somewhere though all that work to get more than 2 light settings was a good idea.

Any light that includes a settings menu is going to have a pretty un-elegant UI because of how hard it is to make sure it doesn't get entered accidentally with only 1 button and a twist cap to utilize for input.


On my Nitecore D10 you can easily select a range of brightnesses, and nothing gets in your way. You don't get strobe when you don't want. You don't have to do ridiculous button combos to make your selection. It is simple, functional, and offers countless light level settings. No other AA light I've come across stands up to it's UI. The Zebralight 501w I have is a functional UI, but not quite is elegant as the D10. Everything else has been pretty disappointing.
I'd reckon I agree with most of this. About the only sensible ones I've seen are the ones with a selection ring but then some of those go and complicate it by having a "twist and back" to get to even more modes.

I'm sure that the average torch "hobbyist" that hangs around in places like CPF gets some fun out of playing with all these ones that need multi pressing of the button and programming and half twists with pike and the like but it's all starting to seem just a bit silly to me and I really don't know how the manufacturers actually manage to sell these torches to anyone else. I can see why Maglites sell millions and all these others sell only thousands or hundreds.
 

Stress_Test

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
1,334
This is why my loaner light is typically a simple single mode light. I wouldn't want to have to go through a big explanation when all someone wants is to borrow a light for a minute. They'll give you the WTF?! :thinking: look.

Last time I loaned a light (G2 w/R2) it required nothing more than saying "tighten the tailcap to turn it on".

Most of the time I don't mind multi-press mode selection, but it does get in the way sometimes. My favorite so far is the interface on the Fenix TK12 and TK30, where it's hi/low with a head twist, and a rapid head twist 2X to go to another mode set, and the switch is on/off only. Give it a shot if you don't like multi-mode control with the tail switch.
 

hoongern

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Apr 19, 2009
Messages
435
Location
Cambridge, MA & Malaysia
Hello, I recently got into multi-level output light collecting as an interest branch off from collecting multitools. After reading a lot about various brands and having owned (and mostly sold) a Nitecore, Jetbeam, Fenix, Zebralight and Olight, I'm amazed by how poorly interfaces are designed on most of these lights.

I want to put forward some UI principles that I think make a lot of sense. Tell me if they're unreasonable.

***Never have turning the light off for some amount of time be a method of changing modes.***

When you shut something down you expect it to come back on the way it was before being shutdown, or, for lights too good for a memory function, to a pre-set start mode. Turning the light off, then deciding you want it on again within a couple seconds should not leave you staring and a freakin' strobe. Being extra mindful about turning your light on and off is not necessary for good designs, and even if you are this feature can still cause issues with the light in momentary mode. Also, making the off-on timer .2 seconds instead of 2 seconds does not fix the inherently poor idea.

***If the user does not mean to enter SOS mode, he should NEVER see it.***

Putting SOS and strobe on the same function path as high med and low is just stupid. There is no good reason to go through two useless eye-straining modes to get from med to low. I own lights that manage not to do it, there is no benefit to doing it, therefor every light that does just has LAZY PROGRAMING.

***Keep it SIMPLE***

Look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czUxszAf-JU#t=23m29s

That looks like a joke. Like if someone asked how to start your car, and you replied, "put the key in the ignition, turn it back and forth 3 times, get out and do two laps around the car, and on the second lap tap yakety sax on the hood, then get back in the car within 2 seconds of the last note and it will start."

It boggles my mind that an engineer in a workshop somewhere though all that work to get more than 2 light settings was a good idea.

Any light that includes a settings menu is going to have a pretty un-elegant UI because of how hard it is to make sure it doesn't get entered accidentally with only 1 button and a twist cap to utilize for input.


On my Nitecore D10 you can easily select a range of brightnesses, and nothing gets in your way. You don't get strobe when you don't want. You don't have to do ridiculous button combos to make your selection. It is simple, functional, and offers countless light level settings. No other AA light I've come across stands up to it's UI. The Zebralight 501w I have is a functional UI, but not quite is elegant as the D10. Everything else has been pretty disappointing.

I think at some point or other, you'll have to realize that all this is a lot of what *you* specifically prefer. Unfortunately, people are different, and people like different things. What works for you may not work for others, and what works for others, may not work for you.

That said, I do believe that certain things do make a UI more pleasing to use.

Especially with twisty designs and clickies in the direct electrical path, there's not really any way to switch modes rather than a time-based method. And honestly, I actually like the time-based method. But that's the reason why I own 2 lights, one with a time-based method, and one with a tactical interface (no timers).

So you see - people have different preferences...

Btw, have you tried LiteFlux FUI? Some people consider the UI to be way too complicated, while others (me included) think that it's an amazingly great UI!

Can't please everyone, unfortunately.
 

DHart

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Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
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Location
Sonoran Desert ~ Scottsdale, AZ
Btw, have you tried LiteFlux FUI?

Liteflux LF2XT/LF3XT has my favorite UI (the simple one)

So versatile and simple.

One tap - on

Two taps to min. (a very looow low!)

Tap press to max.

Press hold to ramp up or down continuously until you like it.

One tap - off.

Next time turning on is where you left off.

Add a gorgeous, clean beam of wonderful tint and, voila... Liteflux! :party:
 

McAllan

Enlightened
Joined
Jan 16, 2009
Messages
357
Location
Small town north of Copenhagen, Denmark
Personally I have nothing against the typical reverse clickies. As long as the modes are first the brightness ones and then the blinking ones.
Generally I don't like memory as I then don't know/remember etc. what mode it'll come on in.

The Fenix LD20 etc. is a great example of an indeed very well implemented UI since you'll most likely either start out with the highest or the lowest setting. Here you have the possibility to chose the wanted one very fast. And no need to point the light into you stomach if it start on a high and you want a low and don't want to be blinded or make you noticed etc. And no memory :thanks:

In the other ballpark is the TK40. While really great as a light the UI is a bit annoying since it is slow changing the modes - and again I don't like the memory. If only they would have given the TK40 a control ring like the TA20 for the brightness and their associated blinking modes (4 steps, click tail for turn on/off, double click for the associated blinking mode) that would have been so :twothumbs

Still eager to try the new XL100 UI. If well implemented that could be the geeky UI of the century. They're however very slow to appear here :mecry:
Oh. And a comment about the lockout feature of the XL100. That's could probably be a source for many "broken" lights belonging to non flashaholics. They probably manage to lock the light and have forgotten how to unlock and end up with a "broken" light. Perhaps a small inscription on how to (un)lock the light on the side of the light would have been appropriate. Doesn't need to be much writen just the words lock/unlock and one or two pictograms.
 

victory

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Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
218
I agree with the OP. This is the reason that nothing has been able to replace my gladius for work. I just got a Quark 123 tactical as a backup, set the modes to High and Low and am now content ot never use the rest of the modes. Of course, unlike my gladius, I can't even change between my two presets with one hand, but that's ok since it's a backup.
 

yellow

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Joined
Oct 31, 2002
Messages
4,634
Location
Baden.at
I agree with the OP.
no, You dont ;)
because You realize there are other UIs - ones You dont like - and do not purchase theses lights



and, op, how about mentionning expecially Fenix UI, or Jetbeam, together with that "strobe that the user NEVER has to see, if not want"? Only with remember last setting UI one has to go through all the other - unnecessary (point of view) - levels.
Some ppl prefer that, as well as foward/reverse clicky, high at 1st or low at 1st turning on, or remember last setting, ...

simple answer:
1st: do not purchase something You dont like
2nd: if there is no budget, or premade, light that suits YOUR needs, check with the special makers
3rd: learn to mod/build the light as You want it
(points 2 and 3 mean: special interest, higher cost)


Is this simply a general rant thread with no question, no possible help, no real purpose?
Wonder that it has not already been closed.
:thinking:
 

Flying Turtle

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Jan 28, 2003
Messages
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Location
Apex, NC
Welcome to CPF, Mikey. Lots of good and bad points about some of the UI's. To avoid complaints just do what hoongern and DHart have mentioned and try the LiteFlux. Very close to all things to all people.

Geoff
 

umc

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May 22, 2005
Messages
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Location
Detroit, MI
Is this simply a general rant thread with no question, no possible help, no real purpose?
Wonder that it has not already been closed.
:thinking:


I was wondering the same thing. It seemed more like a bash all UI's except the Nitecore thread to me.:)
 

computernut

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Apr 16, 2009
Messages
647
Location
Canada, eh?
I'm not a fan of multi-mode lights, even the double-tap interface of Surefire's E-series is a bit annoying sometimes. I prefer the two-stage TC of the Surefire L/A series or their U2/Kroma interface for multi-mode selection. Until I get lost someday, the SOS/Strobe modes of my D10 are good for showing off to friends/coworkers ;)
 

LEDninja

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Jun 15, 2005
Messages
4,896
Location
Hamilton Canada
:welcome:

The clock on my 1996 Sony VCR is still blinking 12:00.

The way to set my clocks is all different. My cellphone's auto-update does not work. The switcheroo between standard and summer time drives me nuts.

I was at a GTA CPF meet. Someone asked about the programming of a light. One member pulled out the manual from his wallet. I need a microscope to read it. Another said he had a bigger copy and started to search his PDA. Made a note to myself to NOT buy that light.

The early 5 mode SSC-P7 torches (1st batch) had flaky UI. I had to tap real fast (<1/4 sec) to change modes. Another member had to wait 10 seconds. The bulk of CPF waited a year before getting a light many times brighter than their then current LEDs. Those who have not adopted lithium battery technology waited another 6 months.

I ordered a single mode Ultrafire C3, received a 5 mode. Same 5 modes as my the P7 but this one works better. <1 sec changes modes, >3 sec comes back on in last mode.

It is hard to ignore the enthusiastic posts by members GAGA over modes and programmability to find the posts about KISS lights but it can be done.
If you do not like how the more complicated UI is set up, just buy a simpler light.
Fenix L1T v2.0/L2T v2.0. Tighten bezel for high, loosen bezel for low. The click switch is strictly for on/off. Tactical switch allows momentary or signaling. And its $10 cheaper than the Fenix L1D/L2D/LD10/LD20 with the additional modes.

My goto EDC is a Nitecore EZAA. Screw the body into the head to turn light on, keep screwing for high.
My keychain light is a Millermodded Arc AAA. Identical UI as the EZAA.
My bedside light is a single mode Fenix L1P.
My >BRIGHT< light is a single mode 3C Mag P7.
 

Moonshadow

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Scotland
***Never have turning the light off for some amount of time be a method of changing modes.***

***If the user does not mean to enter SOS mode, he should NEVER see it.***

***Keep it SIMPLE***
Agree 100% with all three of those.

As for memory mode or not - there is of course no absolute right or wrong about this, it depends both on personal preference and how you are going to use the light. So the sensisible thing would be for the light to offer you the choice. Both the Gladius and RA Clicky do this, so it's not that hard, and a great way to keep everyone happy.

For those of you saying "if you don't like it, don't buy it", I'm sorry but that's a crummy excuse for poor design.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean there isn't someone who loves the UI you dislike.
OK, some things like memory or not are a matter of preference, but name me one person who wants to get strobed by mistake.
 

Dave Keith

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about 100 miles SW of Dallas Texas
[That looks like a joke. Like if someone asked how to start your car, and you replied, "put the key in the ignition, turn it back and forth 3 times, get out and do two laps around the car, and on the second lap tap yakety sax on the hood, then get back in the car within 2 seconds of the last note and it will start."]

When I got to "tap yakety sax on the hood..." I was laughing so hard that my wife asked what in the world was I reading. When I read it to her, we both nearly got hysterical.

Oh, by the way, you made a good point about complicated UI's, too!
 

USACelt

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Jul 17, 2009
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Petersburg,Virginia
I agree with simplier is better and I would not cry if blinking modes disappeared forever. On a tactical light, a strobe, if quickly accessed is useful. S.O.S. is pointless. When I hear of lights with a choice of light levels that you lock in, what is everyones choice of levels ? 100%/50%/1% ? Does someone really need "infinate" levels ? I think the UI of my Quark regular is near perfect, perfect if the disco modes were gone. I am anxiously waiting to see the new Eagletac PC series, I just hope it doesnt have the same UI as the T and P series. I want a light that comes on in the lowest mode. I want to work my way through the levels, low to high, not blind myself with high to get to low. I agree there are many lights for many users, but I miss the logic of some UI. But of course this is just my two cents.
shrug.gif
 

bc62010

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Joined
Mar 15, 2010
Messages
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Location
NYC
I was just thinking about this the other day and since have thought about it some more. It would be cool it mgfs could offer a "Programming" service. Imagine ordering you favorite light with a check box of features you wanted or didn't want. And of course mfgs could charge a nominal fee for re-programming. Below are some different scenarios that could be programmed into flashlight heads depending on your needs.

Scenerio 1
Strobe low
Hi
Low

Scenerio 2
Low
Blink

Scenario 3
Strobe
Blink
SOS
Disco
 

shark_za

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Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
651
Location
Johannesburg - South Africa
I don't see much commentary on the UI I am liking the most at the moment.

The iTP S series.

The tailcap is on/off, that is it.
One mode.

A separate side body switch to toggle beteen 3 usefull modes and a flashy, if you dont like them press and hold till its something you like.

I REALLY appreciate the simplicity of it, pity its not getting much respect.
 
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