Surefire LX2 XM-L - want a bit more throw

Hello,

two days ago i modded my LX2 and L1 with neutral white XM-L led (T5, 3C tint). Everything worked out great: both light now have better tints (especially L1 which had greenish tint before), more output, but they lost a bit of throw.
But the "problem" is, that now i can't see any difference in brightness, beam quality or throw between L1 and LX2, when i use RCR123 in L1. It is a bit dimmer on primary CR123 cell, but not that much. Before the upgrade, L1 was greenier, dimmer and less focused - LX2 had quite better throw. LX2 stays regulated on all cells, driver only adjust the battery current, so brightness doesn't change when using rechargeable batteries. Tailcap current also dropped a bit on LX2, probably because of the lower Vf of the XM-L. Now the runtime on high should be around 2,5 hours.
But here's the trick: while both lights now have more EDC-able beams and higher output, i think i lost the feature on LX2 which defined it as a great duty light - throw. I use my L1 as my EDC (+ quark mini as a backup), and for that application, wider beam is a real blessing - now i don't have to think where have i put that F04 all the time. But LX2 was always a light i put in my backpack or pocket, when i knew i'll need a bit more throwier and serious light, for walking or hiking in a rural area, where i live. I really miss that throwy beam, shaped with that awesome TIR lens - I find it really nice for spotting object up to 100 meters. Way better than reflectored lights! The only drwabacks are, it uses somewhat obsolete LED (XR-E) and beam tint (which is still nice, but neutral is of course better)
So, i need some advice what would you guys do: Should i buy a stock head for my LX2 and sell the modded one, sell the whole light and replace it with something newer? I really want to stay in the "made in the EU/USA department", but there isn't much choice. Maybe Hound Dog but it is really hard to find, or some custom made P60 style lights, but newer dropins seem to be even floodier than M60 Malkoff modules. M3LT is also a secret desire, but it is a bit large, especially since i already have Varapower 1000 as a high output super thrower (de-domed LED = more than 70k lux). What would be my options?
Don't get me wrong: LX2 with XM-L is a great light with high output, long runtimes and great UI, but lacks a bit of a throw for my needs 80-100m), and most importantly, it is just too similar to my (also XM-L modded) L1. I just don't want have two lights that fill the same niche...

I apologize for language and grammar mistakes.

Any ideas?

Put a neutral xr-e in it and be happy I see you call the xr-e "somewhat obsolete", but in reality there is nothing that will match the old xr-e for it's throw in a small light.

The LX2 is TIR right, so its lens would be dependant on the source emitter. Since you made a drastic change in the emitter it is likely the TIR is not really a good match for it and thus less throw.

In this case I would say the result is exactly as expected. I don't know if you could fix it, but I suspect you'll have to live with it.

Yes, i expected to lose some throw, the thing that i didn't expect is similarity between L1 and LX2. I love the beam on both -but for EDC. I could change the emitter again, but how about a new light?

Ask Nailbender to build you a 1.5 amp X-RE R2 P60 drop in for a Surefire C2 or Z2. It throws better than the LX2. Has better spill too.

The Eagletac T20C2 with XP-E in neutral white is a nice thrower too.

If you don't mind the size 4Sevens G5 outhrows either of the above.

I wonder if XP-G would be better, since the LED is quite smaller than XM-L?

pulstar said:

I wonder if XP-G would be better, since the LED is quite smaller than XM-L?

Click to expand...

Doubt it - the viewing angle for the XP-G is 125 degrees just like the XM-L but max output can't be as high as an XM-L if both are driven as hard as they can be.

You'd be better off with an XR-E or an XM-L driven hard to put out more lumens.

Damn, i was really hoping that XP-G would change something...

Yes, the XP-G WILL be better if you are looking for more throw than XM-L. The die size of the XP-G is smaller then the XM-L, so the beam will be tighter. An XP-E will be tighter still. There are nice neutral R2 4C XP-E's that would do well, but an XR-E neutral would do very well, and still probably best with the TIR optic designed for it. The best neutral XR-E's made were Q4-5C, but they are becoming rare. I wish Cree would use the XP-E R2 4C dies in a batch of XR-Es for us to upgrade our SF TIRs.

It sounds like you're using the stock LX2 and L1 drivers, which are only intended to drive the stock XR-E LED at maybe 1A or less, so they're not driving your XM-Ls very hard at all. A 2.5 hr run-time on high pretty well confirms that. If you want the big flood of the XM-L along with the punch of the stock LX2, you need to drive the XM-L harder, at the sacrifice of run-time.

I'd consider seeing if one of the modders on the Boards can replace the driver in the LX2 with a more powerful one, perhaps 2.0-2.8A. If you do this, you could possibly also use the head with any other E-series body and switch, as the switching would probably be done by the (new) driver in the LX2 head.

Or you could swap the heads on your L1 and LX2. If you put the modded L1 head on the LX2 body it'll run in direct drive on a Li-Ion cell, either a 17670 or a IMR16340 w/ spacer. I have one set up this way on a LX2, and it'll do about 900 lumens at turn-on, dropping to 700 Lumens or so after a few minutes. The throw is greater than a stock LX2 at this output level. Makes for an extremely impressive light. The downside is run-time, which is only about 30 minutes on High w/ a 17670, and heat, as the light does heat up pretty quickly. You need to make sure that the XM-L in your L1 head is well mounted with a good thermal path if you intend to direct-drive it. Also, don't run two CR123 or RCR123 in the direct-drive configuration, you'll fry the LED.

If you try this, running the L1 head on the LX2 body allows you to still use the two-stage switch to give a very usable Low with good run-time from the XM-L.

If you now try the LX2 head on the L1 body with an RCR, you may find that it still gives a comparable level of brightness to the L1 head.

Blindasabat said:

Yes, the XP-G WILL be better if you are looking for more throw than XM-L. The die size of the XP-G is smaller then the XM-L, so the beam will be tighter. An XP-E will be tighter still. There are nice neutral R2 4C XP-E's that would do well, but an XR-E neutral would do very well, and still probably best with the TIR optic designed for it. The best neutral XR-E's made were Q4-5C, but they are becoming rare. I wish Cree would use the XP-E R2 4C dies in a batch of XR-Es for us to upgrade our SF TIRs.

Click to expand...

Thank you for your answer. I'll try to get both leds (XP-G and XR-E).

Hi again,

led's came to me this morning. First, i tried XP-G high CRI 90 and got very dissapointed: It looked like underpowered incandescent light, with no better color rendition than my L1 with neutral XM-L. XP-G R4 (neutral) was a bit better. LX2 had a smaller and a bit more intense hotspot, dimmer spill, and throw wasn't that much better than L1s. Then i tried XP-E R2 neutral white led. Hotspot is a lot smaller, brighter, spill almost disappeared, but during ceiling bounce test, LX2 equipped with XP-E seemed noticeably dimmer, and taken outside, it didn't throw that much better. I am really dissapointed, i expected a bit brighter output. All those three new leds are a bit warmer than XM-L T5 3C, so there might be the reason they all looked even less bright.
I am really interested in your setup: direct driven L1 head on LX2 body seems similar to what i am looking for. I like the beam pattern of XM-l modded L1 head, but miss the throw. how bright is the low mode with your setup? What is the runtime?

Glow_Worm said:

It sounds like you're using the stock LX2 and L1 drivers, which are only intended to drive the stock XR-E LED at maybe 1A or less, so they're not driving your XM-Ls very hard at all. A 2.5 hr run-time on high pretty well confirms that. If you want the big flood of the XM-L along with the punch of the stock LX2, you need to drive the XM-L harder, at the sacrifice of run-time.

I'd consider seeing if one of the modders on the Boards can replace the driver in the LX2 with a more powerful one, perhaps 2.0-2.8A. If you do this, you could possibly also use the head with any other E-series body and switch, as the switching would probably be done by the (new) driver in the LX2 head.

Or you could swap the heads on your L1 and LX2. If you put the modded L1 head on the LX2 body it'll run in direct drive on a Li-Ion cell, either a 17670 or a IMR16340 w/ spacer. I have one set up this way on a LX2, and it'll do about 900 lumens at turn-on, dropping to 700 Lumens or so after a few minutes. The throw is greater than a stock LX2 at this output level. Makes for an extremely impressive light. The downside is run-time, which is only about 30 minutes on High w/ a 17670, and heat, as the light does heat up pretty quickly. You need to make sure that the XM-L in your L1 head is well mounted with a good thermal path if you intend to direct-drive it. Also, don't run two CR123 or RCR123 in the direct-drive configuration, you'll fry the LED.

If you try this, running the L1 head on the LX2 body allows you to still use the two-stage switch to give a very usable Low with good run-time from the XM-L.

If you now try the LX2 head on the L1 body with an RCR, you may find that it still gives a comparable level of brightness to the L1 head.

Click to expand...

pulstar said:

I am really interested in your setup: direct driven L1 head on LX2 body seems similar to what i am looking for. I like the beam pattern of XM-l modded L1 head, but miss the throw. how bright is the low mode with your setup? What is the runtime?

Click to expand...

Hi pulstar, I answered this in a PM to you, but I'll repeat it here for the benefit of any others interested.

I had to bore my LX2 body to use a 17670 cell. I estimate about 30-40 lumens output on low using the LX2 tailcap with stock 10-ohm resistor. I haven't tested the runtime on low, but I would guess it should be several hours at least. I'll try to test that when I get a chance.

Have you tried running your L1 head on the LX2 body? That'll be about the same as what you are proposing, and pretty much the same setup that I have. Boring the body was a big hassle for me, as I had to use a machine shop, but you could test out the setup w/ a IMR16340 and a dummy cell to get an idea of the output before you commit to boring the LX2 body. I wouldn't try it with a regular RCR123 for any extended period, as it is not rated for the amount of amps that will be drawn by the circuit on High. You could try it on Low though w/ an RCR to get an idea of the brightness, and Hi should be ok for just a few seconds of testing, but it still might not be as bright as it would with an IMR due to the lower amperage of the RCR.

I tried your last suggestion and got around 1.8amps at the tail. I'm still not sure if i want to bore the body. I'd really like to still be able to us CR123 batteries bit i don't know if there is any driver, suitable for operation with surefire 2-stage tailcap.
I like the output in direct drive though...

Get a Surefire L1 keep the bezel stock and just use a 2• CR123 aftermarket hosts and it will go DD and net you the 13K-15K lux 300 plus lumens you want

FYI. You can try that LX2 body and L1 head with AW 17670 cell. And 15k lux is possible which is similar throw to a huge Maelstrom s5

That would be nice, i would just have to bore LX2 body a bit.