New Member that needs help with with P60 Question!!

Hello CPF members!

I have been a LONG time lurker/learner here and have vastly appreciated the immense amount of knowledge and experience held by the CPF members.... I blame all you you as a whole for this uncontrollable "flashaholic" syndrome I currently suffer from! :twothumbs

That being said, I have searched this place high and low and cannot find a direct answer for a question I currently have...

I recently have purchased a Surefire 6p and want to make it my first modded light. It came with the original head as well as a KX4 conversion head (which I really like btw) however, I am looking for more performance out of it.

I want a drop in to put in the original P60 head with the MOST light and the brightest hot spot (measured in lux I guess) as well as the MOST THROW

I am looking at the Dereelight 700 Lumen XM-L T6 series with the Single Mode (which I prefer) and the Smooth Reflector... Is this the best combination for what I am looking for? Can I run this setup with 2 CR123 batteries still? (also I am aware of the heat dissipation issues but that will not be an problem as my usage is not long periods of time but rather short bursts)

Thank you all very much in advance for any help!

The triple XPG at Oveready may be the brightest...but, IIRC, it should only be ran on RCR's, as it will dmaage primary batteries??? It over 1000 lumens though.

Welcome hooyah22,

I don't know anything about the Deerelights, but you might want to check out nailbender's thread, an XML with smooth reflector in the tint of your choice will run fine with (2) CR123's and throw plenty far enough:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-white-XPG-XML-SST-50-90-P60-modules-(part-8)

I apologize, for pouring gas on the flames of your Lumen addiction. For a can of daylight in your pocket check out VanIsleDSM 1654 lumen P60 drop in.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...P60-XPG-Drop-ins.-Up-to-1654-Lumen-OTF!/page1

Spendy but bleeding edge stuff. Sorry about the hit your wallet is going to take.

scottyhazzard said:

I apologize, for pouring gas on the flames of your Lumen addiction. For a can of daylight in your pocket check out VanIsleDSM 1654 lumen P60 drop in.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...P60-XPG-Drop-ins.-Up-to-1654-Lumen-OTF!/page1

Spendy but bleeding edge stuff. Sorry about the hit your wallet is going to take.

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I've got my second Quad from the crazy Canadian (note - I'm a Canuck too, so no offense meant ) on order. These are pretty wild dropins. No traditional hot spot but WALL OF LIGHT.

Thanks for the incredibly quick replies! I have read great things here about nailbenders work and appreciate the link :twothumbs

Any other suggestions out there? Any beam shots of the Nailbender's in the XM-L/Smooth Refelctor combination or the Dereelight?

Thanks again in advance!

The one problem with high power p60's is you gotta wrap the module in foil so it wedges tightly in the light to maximize heat transfer. That being said the XM-L is going to be hard to drive at full power and with such a large die size it won't throw any better than an XP-G. I think for throw in a p60 the best general purpose module is an XP-G with SMO reflector. When these are driven at the full 1.5 amps they throw as well as the XR-E, have a decent size hotspot and good flood.

The quads have low throw.
Most light, and furthest throw would be difficult. Pick on or the other.

Which Drop in would yield the highest lux in the hotspot with the brightest center?

Are you talking brightest tightest hotspot at the greatest distance? There seams to always be some kind of trade off. OMGLumens has the Deft EDC, not a drop in but a complete light with an aspheric lens and an incredible throw without spill. I was wondering if you know how far you want to throw, can your eyes make out the details in the daytime at that distance? Then look for a drop in that hits that distance. My EDC light is 240 lumens & do 85 to 100 yards well but had Cree rings that I did not like. Swapped in an OP reflector smoothing out the rings but cut the throw in half. I love this light @ 85% of the time. The other 15% of the time I want twice the light and 3 times the distance. Yours is a variation of every CPF'ers quest for "The Light". For EDC usefulness I like the option of variable output. Low I can use indoors and read something & I would like 100+ yards saturated with light, high to penetrate 200+ yards would hit the max of what I can see well at my age. Toss in a strobe, preferably random & I'm stoked. When I find it, I'll link you too it. :twothumbs:

hooyah22 said:

Any beam shots of the Nailbender's in the XM-L/Smooth Refelctor combination or the Dereelight

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Check out post #602 of nailbender's thread, brandocommando posted some wall beamshots of XMLs in warm (smooth), neutral (op) and cool (op)

Just today I received a Nailbender coolwhite with smo reflector and regulated at 2.8A for runtime and longevity. It out-throws my brightest P60 XP-G (Thrunite 400 OTF version) at the hotspot and spill.

Voided, how far and how many lumens? BTW where are the pics, dude.

If you want most lux and throw from P60 go for Nailbender XR-E drop-in and Ahorton aspherics lens. Should give you 27K lux. A normal XML light of P60 size has around 10K lux. Note that you can get 400-500 LUMENS from XML drop-in but LUX will be ~10K at the best, multi-led drop-in probably have even less lux. A XR-E has only around 250-270 lumens but higher lux, with aspheric lens you can collimate light and have even higher lux and throw but with minimal or no spill.

scottyhazzard said:

Voided, how far and how many lumens? BTW where are the pics, dude.

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Well, darkness has not yet fallen in the 6 hours since I've received it but my white wall hunting has shown (if applicable to long distances) that my above statement is accurate to my eyes at least. Naturally the spill will often produce the erroneous effect of having more throw due to simply being able to see more area rather than actually seeing further. (Though I made a deliberate effort not to be fooled.) Also the Nailbender is cool white while the TN is noticeably warmer which to some eyes (mine) makes the NB look brighter. The actual OTF lumens for the NB is claimed to be 650 vs 400 for the TN. As I am living in an apartment complex, I have a difficult time testing my toys while not annoying the neighbors, so distance testing is both detrimental and suspicious But to make things clear, the NB does not "blow away" the TN for throw. It merely seems to "win by a hair," but the spill is so much better too it's nice to have both. Perhaps a smooth reflector in an XP-G (it just came to mind that my TN is LOP) will out-throw an NB XML. Perhaps one built by Nailbender

Voider said:

The actual OTF lumens for the NB is claimed to be 650 vs 400 for the TN. But to make things clear, the NB does not "blow away" the TN for throw. It merely seems to "win by a hair," but the spill is so much better too it's nice to have both. Perhaps a smooth reflector in an XP-G (it just came to mind that my TN is LOP) will out-throw an NB XML. Perhaps one built by Nailbender

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So you have Nailbenders XM-L with the smooth reflector, but you think that an XP-G R5 with a smooth reflector would out-throw that? Thats the setup in my stock Quark 123^2 Turbo and it throws excellent, but I was hoping for a little more brightness from the conversion. Thanks again and any pics would be much appreciated, even wall shots comparing the NB and the TN!!!

hooyah22 said:

So you have Nailbenders XM-L with the smooth reflector, but you think that an XP-G R5 with a smooth reflector would out-throw that? Thats the setup in my stock Quark 123^2 Turbo and it throws excellent, but I was hoping for a little more brightness from the conversion. Thanks again and any pics would be much appreciated, even wall shots comparing the NB and the TN!!!

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hooyah,
I seem to have started something more than I can necessarily finish. Although I've been lurking for several years I'm a noob myself. My statements are based on my subjective observations, and I have nowhere near the experience that many or most of the other members have. I am familiar only with the following P60's: Malkoff M60, M61, M61W, M60F, M91, NailBender SST-90, SST-60, XML, Thrunite XP-G (1 and 3-level), and XML, Torchlab Tripple XP-G single level. There are undoubtedly brands and custom builds of which I've never heard that may render my info near-useless. I do know that the ones I've mentioned are highly respected or even revered. That's why I bought them

I can say THIS with 99% certainty: With identical P60 reflectors the smaller die leds will produce more throw (lux) than the larger ones, but they will produce less overall light (lumens). The larger leds require larger reflectors to produce more throw than the smaller leds, and with their additional lumens the larger ones will out-throw the smaller if given appropriately larger reflectors. But since your question is about P60's (having a relatively small 26mm diameter) you would do well to focus on XR-E's for throw. I would look at JKodiak's post (#14) with serious interest. One additional aspect to consider is that not every maker/custom builder powers a given led to the same level. Some hold back due to overheating issues, battery life, amount of current the chosen battery can produce, led longevity, and some things (perhaps many) that I've failed to mention. I would not compare the Quark to a P60 because, in obedience to scientific method, they have too many variables separating them. I would be surprised if a custom build did not give you the most throw. Again, post #14 interests me. Hopefully I've made things more clear than not. Unfortunately my only (cell phone) camera will not do justice to the cause.

In case you are more interested in a small thrower than in a P60 one per se, I have been impressed with the Lumintop TD-15 Terminator (XP-G). It's bezel is notably larger and deeper than a P60, and the overall length is greater, but it puts most of its 420 lumens into a "dot" that is nearly useless at close range. Not trying to change your mind (I love P60's), but I thought it worth mentioning since you brought up the Quark Turbo.

-Tom

Voider,

Thank you again very much for the help and the clarification. I guess I need to clarify as well... I guess what I meant to say I wanted was a drop-in with the brightest hotspot that does not sacrifice in spill (overall lumens).

With this consideration, do you think a good compromise between the XM-L and the set-up JKodiak laid out (because, as I understand it, aspheric lens' all but eradicate the spill) would be a Cree XP-G R5 with a smooth reflector? More lumens than the XR-E, but brighter hotspot (higher Lux) than the XM-L out of the P60...

Thanks again,

Nate

hooyah,

I have just been shining the appropriate lights from my deck into the treetops approximately 200ft away. The $45 Nailbender XML 2.8A potted cool white w/ smooth reflector does slightly out-throw the $30 Thrunite XP-G 1.5A neutral w/ OP reflector. I cannot speak from direct experience how NB's (or any other brand/builder's) XP-G R5 in cool white (6500K) with a smooth reflector would fare, but I would not hesitate to put down the $35 plus $5 for potting to find out. One caveat, at 200ft I could not detect any spill from the TN. I'm not certain about the NB spill since the hot spot was large enough to cover the whole width of the treetop. I will say that the NB has a wider and slightly brighter hot spot and a slightly narrower and noticably brighter spill than the TN when side by side at shorter distances. This apparent discrepancy from my earlier explanation about led size and throw/spill for a given reflector can be explained by the fact that this "study" is not using a "given" reflector. OP will produce a slightly floodier beam as well as a smoother one. Smooth reflectors can produce rings (called Cree rings), but the payoff is greater throw. (BTW, the minor rings in the NB were completely tolerable to me, and I hate rings. You would not notice them under real life conditions vs white wall.) Also the depth of a reflector can vary even within P60's due to the front-to-back depth of the light engine tho I don't know if there was a difference beween these two.

As far as getting the "brightest hotspot that does not sacrifice in spill (overall lumens)," I think your best bet of the ones I'm familiar with is the NB XML due to the brute force lumens. The XR-E definitely sacrifices spill even without an aspheric because total lumens are relatively low. The XP-G is somewhere in between, and you might consider the one I defined from NB or another highly esteemed builder. (I'll repeat here that I have no experience w/ NB or any other custom XP-G module.) Or you can do what any true Flashaholic would do, and I quote, "Get both!"

Hooyah,
Thanks for starting this string. Learning a lot & finding out I had a # of misconceptions. Glad you put your question out there.