What is your choice of balance between output and runtime?

It seems these days output is driving the market. Now you can easily pocket 500+ lumens. While I do like bright lights they really are not practical most of the time. I now value a lower longer lasting output. My current favorite balance is the SF E2L, 50+ lumens for 6 hours is perfect for me. Not blinding at full power in tight spaces, plenty of runtime, and a good short range to intermediate thrower. With an extra set of batteries you are set for a long weekend of hiking and camping.

What is your favorite combo and why?

I agree with your preferences. Bright lights have their place of course, but what I look for in a light these days is how long it can maintain a decent output.
I'm thinking of buying an LX2, mainly for the build and toughness, and also for the 15 lumen low. I very rarely use any more than that on a day to day basis, but on the odd occasion I sometimes need a 'blast' of light.
If I was buying something for my 'bag' I would probably buy one of the zeberalights in AA with a ridiculous runtime on low.

I understand your point. While the lumen wars drew me into collecting flashlights, now I am more interested in lower output lights with good run times. I recently bought the now outdated e1b surefire. Created in 2008, this light is now Stone Age by led standards, but I find the 110 focused output very useful and the 5 lumen output very frugal on the battery. I am really enjoying this outdated light. I have my eye on the e2l as well........

kelmo said:

It seems these days output is driving the market. Now you can easily pocket 500+ lumens. While I do like bright lights they really are not practical most of the time. I now value a lower longer lasting output. My current favorite balance is the SF E2L, 50+ lumens for 6 hours is perfect for me. Not blinding at full power in tight spaces, plenty of runtime, and a good short range to intermediate thrower. With an extra set of batteries you are set for a long weekend of hiking and camping.

What is your favorite combo and why?

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i understand the want for more lumens, but for me, i dont like any light that can get too hot for its own good.
i much prefer runtimes over lumens, and i prefer warm tints and high CRI also, so i take another hit in lumens in that regard.
most of my lights also use primaries, so that might be another reason i prefer runtimes.

none of my edc lights produce more than 100 lumens, and so far have never needed anymore.
for my work lights, i realized i dont really need more than 150-200 lumens. and these are the lights that i require have good thermal management, because i dont always have the time to babysit them.
ive actually tried using a 500 lumen work light, and it hurts my eyes. the light was more on the cool side though, and there was alot of glare that actually made it harder for me to see things. what cant i see with 200 lumens, as oppose to 500 lumens? :laughing:

yearnslow said:

I agree with your preferences. Bright lights have their place of course, but what I look for in a light these days is how long it can maintain a decent output.
I'm thinking of buying an LX2, mainly for the build and toughness, and also for the 15 lumen low. I very rarely use any more than that on a day to day basis, but on the odd occasion I sometimes need a 'blast' of light.
If I was buying something for my 'bag' I would probably buy one of the zeberalights in AA with a ridiculous runtime on low.

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Just got mine today, few views on it
-Surefire's quality seemed to be lowered, my tailcap is stained by black paint and cannot be removed, another one in the retailer has a large ding on the tube, >2mm wide
-Both single cell and Double cell is driving it nice, tho i do not have a output/time chart
-15 degree twist before const. low is a good setting, you dont need much force to activate low, but security is still here, no accidental activation
-Much thicker laser-etched words, like they bolded them, slightly unpleasent to me
-On my light the bezel o-ring is exposed, i dont know whether its normal or not.
-Slightly anod mismatch at tailcap
-Strange shape of clip, seems bent upward
-Beam profile is 95% same as E2DL-200lm ver
-Not quite suitable for tactical-usage, Hi mode requires quite a force to keep constant, if not twisted

Turbo: blasting out 800+ lumens for a short period of time
Medium: a moderate 300 lumens for general purpose use
Low: a low 2 lumen moonlight/firefly mode for long runtimes.

I like custom drivers with memory mode because I usually save it on medium.

The lights are like any other tools...one length screw driver is not always the right length, etc.

For key chain-ish lights that are typically only on for a short time, to do a check check on something, etc...they can be shorter run-time, and its helpful if they have firefly lows up to 500-600 lumens of floody light.

High lumens in a concentrated beam is not that useful for close up work though, so that would go for floody little lights...so the massive lumen output is spread out wide, so I see everything at once...but for a brief shot at a time with a wee light.


For a disaster response, I might need BOTH long run times and massive out puts. That means BIG lights. In real life, I simply use more cells as need be, etc. Its a few seconds to swap in freshies.


For inspections, indoors, I might use a long runtime AND max out put too, and also just swap in cells as needed. These might be medium lights in the 4" - 8" range, etc.

I tend to use MOST lights on their max. If I needed fewer lumens, I am simply using a smaller light, etc.

Interesting post,most power i need in work is about 60-80 lumens and for night navigation around the rooms is just a few lumens. Outside at night to check when the security lights come on I need something that throws a bit with perhaps 500 lumens or there about,s.

My lights are in essence pretty good on the fuel cells.

Well, I always take up the extreme low end on these types of threads - as a camper, I love low output and long runtimes and will run 0.3/3/20 lumens as my typical L/M/H from floody 1xNiMh/14500 EDC lights. A single cell is good for a week's camping trip or Hurricane Sandy outage for me. I might have 300-400 lumens on tap with the 14500s, but tend to only use them for showing off and spotting distant animal eyes reflecting back at me - nice option to have, but not really necessary.

If you use your lights for extended periods of time in dark environments, just letting your eyes dark-adapt is about the best free flashlight turbocharger/battery extender there is and will allow you to run a full mode lower than with bright-adapted eyes with about the same perceived brightness. While the added runtime is more than welcome - did I mention changing and charging batts is a PITA? - what I really like, though, is the sense of 360-degree visibility and awareness you get with fully dark-adapted eyes. It's a much nicer outdoor experience than viewing a black world though an 80-degree cone of bright light.

I like output and runtime, so I go for larger, multi-cell lights like the TK41, LD40 and AA battery adapters in my Maglites. Or I use 18650 lights like the MD2 or Fenix TK12 with their 200+ lumens for the duration of a night walk with the dog.

I do EDC a couple of single cell lights (PD20, E11, EO5), but they're there for Justin, you know, just in case I need a light. My PD20 and E11 are both still on their first lithium cells showing more than 70% capacity after nine and six months respectively.

Not a big fan of sub-lumen low modes. If I want to see at night, I like at least 3-5 lumens even when it's pitch black. Once my eyes are light adjusted I prefer 30-70 lumens for might tasks around the house. None of this "I prefer to keep my eyes dark adjusted" nonsense.

When I first turn on my Quark in moonlight mode, it quickly gets ramped up a mode or two once I'm outside my bedroom. I only use it so I don't wake the missus.

My quick answer...I like run time. 100 lumens or much less if inside the house is all I seem to need/use.

I pick the most powerful light in the class of light that I'm interested in, and use the low modes if I want more run time.
If I want to use the high mode a lot, I carry some extra batteries. I find carrying spare batteries in a zip-lock bag is much more convenient and easier than carrying a fatter or longer light that houses bigger battery banks.

Jash said:

...None of this "I prefer to keep my eyes dark adjusted" nonsense..

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Make you feel better taking a dump on other people's preferences when they don't align with your own? Nice.... :thumbsup:

I prefer lights with high levels that can run for hours not minutes.
This usually insures that the light and the hand holding it will not start burning up shortly afterwards.
This also gives better regulation of the high level which I prefer.

I have a friend who loves max output even if its for a short while.
So, to this I say, to each his own, whatever can put a smile on your face.

To my limited understanding of these things, perceived brightness is roughly proportional to the logarithm of lumens while power usage is roughly linear with lumens. So halving the output in lumens would give a fairly modest decrease in perceived brightness (i.e. not as much a decrease that it would be perceived as "half as bright") but with maybe double the runtime. I'd welcome correction of this theory from folks who know more about the tech side of the art.

On a somewhat related note I am in the middle of testing a Photon Freedom using a CR2032 instead of two CR2016s. I read somewhere that this swap would reduce brightness but give very long run time. So I popped in the CR2032, turned it on max, and left it. It's definitely dimmer than with the CR2016s. But after 4 days and 7 hours it's still putting out a useful amount of light, I'm guessing a lumen or a bit less.

The only time I care about runtime is if I will have enough battery power to do what I need to ( get out of the woods ) etc. I use rechargeable batteries. I usually carry 2 flashlights. I figure I need 4 hours of light on max output. 2 18650 flashlights on max usually run 4 hours. If I run them at a lower level I get more runtime. If I only have one light with me, I'll keep it under half of its output so I know it will go the 4 hour mark.

dgbrookman said:

To my limited understanding of these things, perceived brightness is roughly proportional to the logarithm of lumens while power usage is roughly linear with lumens. So halving the output in lumens would give a fairly modest decrease in perceived brightness (i.e. not as much a decrease that it would be perceived as "half as bright") but with maybe double the runtime. I'd welcome correction of this theory from folks who know more about the tech side of the art.

On a somewhat related note I am in the middle of testing a Photon Freedom using a CR2032 instead of two CR2016s. I read somewhere that this swap would reduce brightness but give very long run time. So I popped in the CR2032, turned it on max, and left it. It's definitely dimmer than with the CR2016s. But after 4 days and 7 hours it's still putting out a useful amount of light, I'm guessing a lumen or a bit less.

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No, thats not true.
Lumen varies directly to Current
Current varies exponentially to Voltage(or at least not linear, current increases more rapidly than voltage, and if voltage is larger, the current increases even larger)
By P=VI
So when lumen increase, the power increase even more
And by the experiment done by others, they have shown that Lumen per Watt decreases as power increase
For XM-L, it could vary from 150lm/w to 80lm/w driven at different current

I'm a dim light culture guy. When I need bright I have it but the rest of the time I go for dim lights with longer runtime. It is a learned experience. Physiologically, the more light you use, the more light you need. It's like 'death and taxes'.

Just got mine today, few views on it
-Surefire's quality seemed to be lowered, my tailcap is stained by black paint and cannot be removed, another one in the retailer has a large ding on the tube, >2mm wide

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By 'Lowered' what do you mean? build Quality or Quality control?

-Both single cell and Double cell is driving it nice, tho i do not have a output/time chart

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I wasn't aware you could run it on anything but primaries?

-15 degree twist before const. low is a good setting, you dont need much force to activate low, but security is still here, no accidental activation

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Excellent!

-Much thicker laser-etched words, like they bolded them, slightly unpleasent to me

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OK

-On my light the bezel o-ring is exposed, i dont know whether its normal or not.

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I would be interested to know this too?

-Slightly anod mismatch at tailcap

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Seems to be a common complaint from what I've read so far here regarding certain surefire lights

-Strange shape of clip, seems bent upward

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I think it's a bezel up-bezel down arrangement for pocket carry?

-Beam profile is 95% same as E2DL-200lm ver

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The E2DL seems to be a good light by all accounts.

-Not quite suitable for tactical-usage, Hi mode requires quite a force to keep constant, if not twisted

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Eat more spinach!

reppans said:

Make you feel better taking a dump on other people's preferences when they don't align with your own? Nice.... :thumbsup:

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Well said :laughing: