Are the Firefly and the ARC AAA hard anodized?

I thought that my Firefly and ARC AAA (2yrs old standard black) were hard anodized but a person who has some plating experience said that they were not. He said that unless it was dyed, hard anodized would come out looking grey like the ARC LS.

Thanks.

When we first started making the Arc-AAA back in 2001, they were black type II. Later that year, we switched to black type III (HA). To achieve this, dye was added to the HA process.

So, you can have black HA. Just add dye to the HA process.

Peter

[ QUOTE ]
Gransee said:
When we first started making the Arc-AAA back in 2001, they were black type II. Later that year, we switched to black type III (HA). To achieve this, dye was added to the HA process.

[/ QUOTE ]
Now that I didn't know. I too thought all black anodizing was type II. This changes everything...well, at least the rating and other text I gave to the original Arc-AAA flashlight. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif
Guess I'd better go on that page and check things. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

(Edit, a short time later)
I updated the page, and uploaded it. I think it will earn a spot in the Trophy Case when I upload my menu page later on.
I think finding out it has a Type III hard anodizing is what will push it over the edge and into the Trophy Case. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I thought black HA III has kind of an ash color to it, it isn't a real shiny jet black like Type II is it?

Hmm. So Type II is dyed after anodizing? and then TypeIII is dyed while anodizing? Makes sense. I know Elektrolumens Blasters are III black...

I have always seen shiny black in HA-II (SureFire 6P) and matte black in HA-III (Arc AAA / McLux).
I don't think that either one is "dyed" separately.
They just add dye to the anodizing bath.

Firefly is type III black but I think it was a little too thick because i have little chips off of mine around the "diamonds" in the knurling. Anyone else have this problem with thier firefly??

I just examined my Firebug -- I mean -- Firefly, and found that the knurling has an overall grey color, while the rest of the head and body is jet black. There is a small chip in the anodizing on the barrel right at the top (where it interfaces with the head), but I'd need to find and use a magnifying lens to see if there are any chips on the knurled areas themselves.

I have my FF on my big keychain in my front pocket 24/7 for about 2 months now, and it is definitely showing some wear under this enormous stress. when comparing these abrasions to my Arc LS1rev2 I carried for about 4-5 months in the same pocket ... well, does not look too good for the FF, it is already a bit beaten with dents here and there while the Arc (which was carried longer) has only one serious dent (because I dropped it to the concrete) and a few minor blemishes.
I could have said that with much less words I think /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/party.gif

The HA3 of the Arcs is the best I ever saw, even better than SF !!!

bernhard

This might explain why my buddy's Arc AAA is almost shiny aluminum now. I bought it right before the black ones stopped production which is when they should have been HAIII but this one must have been an old one that slipped through the cracks. I've always been very displeased with how that light has held up to simple keychain duty.

Oh well...

Mark

Oh and my Firefly has held up awesome to keychain duty. Sure, its missing some annodizing on the knurling edges, but thats going to happen. The ARC LS won't do this as much because it has 'pretend' knurling (very shallow and wide, i.e. useless).

Mark

Hi all,

Since I used to do anodizing of all types, I need to weight in on Hard Anodizing and clear some things up.

I did a 3-year tour of duty at a plating shop just out of high school many years ago. So forgive me if I have forgotten some of the details.

Aluminum naturally oxidizes in the air. This anodic film is what you are accelerating in a vat of sulfuric acid with low voltage/high amps running through the part.

Differences of standard VS hard anodizing are:

Standard anodizing takes place mostly on the surface. When you see bright red and blue anodized aluminum, it's almost certainly STD anodizing that has been dyed. The result is a surface that will resist corrosion and is fairly durable.

Hard anodized parts however take on a completely different character. This is caused by higher amps used to accelerate the oxidation, penetrating below the aluminum surface. The resulting anodized part is hardened by the process, making it much more durable.

Depending upon the amps and time you leave a part in sulfuric acid, results will be most different. A standard anodized part may only require a 15-20 minute run at low amps. Whereas hard anodized parts could require 1+ hour at a much higher amp load. The size of parts/rack(s) loaded affect amps and times required.

To do hard anodizing a part has to be high-grade aluminum. Assuming the part is good aluminum, which most flashlights are. It's relatively easy to strip off the old anodizing and re-anodize to hard specs. Watch out for leakage if you try to mask off the internals. Overall risks damaging the part is minimal.

When anodized parts freshly come out of the sulfuric acid vat, the anodic film is most reactive. Shortly after rinsing off the acid, the part is dipped into what ever color is desired.

I suppose you could dye hard anodizing, but the base color would already be grey, or shades of depending upon how long you anodized the part. You just can't dye it a lighter color than what comes out. I've never dyed a hard-anodized part, because no one ever wanted it done.

My original black AAA ARC is not hard anodized. It has regular anodizing that has been dyed black. The barrel is almost bare aluminum, where the tips of the knurling has worn off. I've never seen the HA black AAA ARC.

I just purchased a Firefly (RH2 MM+ WO) and will be receiving it soon. I'll let everyone know if it's been hard anodized or just dyed std anodizing.

Thanks,
CY

I don't understand. How can, as someone suggested, type III HA be applied on too thick? I would think that the greater the amount of anodization, to a certain extent of course, the more durable the finish. If the Firefly is indeed type III HA, it would be more resistent to chipping than other not as thickly applied HA lights?

I believe HA III is much harder than aluminum, but somewhat more brittle. So if too much anodizing is put on, it could crack or flake in some locations if the anodized area is struck sharply.

To me, all the hype about HA3 is moot. I've had most of the SF's, ARC's, and now the Firefly. In my experience, ALL of them have chipped, scratched or whatever in everyday use. If yours doesn't, you're probably not carrying or using the light much. Personally, I wish manufacturers would give me the option of bare, semi-polished or polished aluminum on all my lights. That way if they got dinged or scratched, I could just polish them out! All brass would be very nice also!

What would be the pros and cons of using titanium instead of aluminum?

[ QUOTE ]
What would be the pros and cons of using titanium instead of aluminum?

[/ QUOTE ]


Aluminum -> $$$

Titanium -> 6.02 x 10^23 $

Cheers!

Gene's comments mirror mine. I have seen Arc AAAs that look like crap, but not as bad as the keys/whatever attached to them.

I highly doubt an un-anodized light would "wear through" in 100 years.

Sorry I took so long to post this. I wanted to be sure of my results.

I've had my firefly with MM+ R2H several weeks now and I really_love it. It has replaced my LSHP as my EDC. But that's not what this post is all about.

1. Yes the Firefly is hard anodized.
2. Specks are chipping off Firefly because; knurling chosen has sharp tips that are breaking off.
3. Premature wear is occurring on the base and lanyard raiser due to sharp edges.
4. Hard anodizing will result in a hardness on Rockwell C of 60-70
5. Firefly was dyed black shortly after anodizing adding to the confusion.
6. Arc AAA original black is not HA, all other Arc AAA tested are HA. This includes CPF version, UV and standard AAA.

There are many testing methods to determine the quality of the anodic film, which will consume many pages and I will not go into.

The method I used is a simple scratch test using a quality knife of a known hardness. Most quality knives will have a hardness of 59-63 on the Rockwell C scale.

The knives I used are Kershaw Scallion and a Newt Livesay, Woo with a hardness of 59-60. Most knife makers will not give spec this close. I will say Newt's knives are equal in quality to Arc flashlights.

The results are:

1. Newt knife feels like it's almost ready to break thru the firefly, but when I looked closely under magnification. It has survived with no damage.
2. Kershaw knife will not even come close to scratching firefly.
3. New Surefire 6p with black anodizing scratches very easily with Kershaw knife.
4. Original AAA is worn down to bare aluminum, I can safely assume it is not HA.
5. Red 2003 CPF AAA resists scratching by Newt knife. The anodic film is harder than firefly.
6. Newt knife feels like it's close breaking thru Arc AA, but it survives unharmed.
7. 1st run #501 survives Newt knife with no problems
8. LSHP #923 survives Newt knife with no problems
9. Light tint AA twisty breaks thru and is scratched (s**t now I have a scratch on my twisty) by Newt knife.
10. Arc AAA recent run easily resist Newt knife.
11. Arc AAA black UV easily resist Newt knife.
12. Brinkman LS easily is scratch by Newt knife
13. Black Mini Mag is scratched by Newt knife, but resist better than other non HA lights

I used fairly heavy pressure on these scratch tests (150-175 in lbs on knife handle, pressure at knife tip would be much higher). I wanted this test to be valid.

If you try this test be prepared to have some scratched flashlights. Oowch!!!

Thanks,
CY

CY, thanks for doing this test (particularly the Firefly!). I ordered black HA3, and AFAIK, that's what I got. It is nice to see it confirmed independently. I am sure you are right about the chipping being due to the sharper edges along the back end of the light. Note that the aluminum is 7075 alloy, not 6061, so it has a little different reaction to the coating as well. My new anodizer says the 7075 is actually easier to anodize (for them), so that's good news as well.

Thanks, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Doug.