A really bad experience with US Bank.

Well, I just feel like venting today. I have always kept an "internet" account open at US bank for paypal stuff only. I have always made a transaction and deposited money the next day. It has always taken 3-5 days for anything to come out of my account so I have never had a problem. So almost 2 weeks ago made a few transactions with paypal and deposited money, then a week after that I get 2 30$ overdraft charges. I go the local office branch manager and argued for almost an hour and only got 1 refunded. She told me now US bank will overdraft you if you have a pending amount that is more than in your account. Now the date shows up on the account not when it came out of your account but when Paypal initiated it, so I'm out that $30, no big deal right? Oh theres more. After talking to her I wasn't happy so I put it off and had like -12$ in my account, well, I had decided to close it and not deal with this BS anymore. I go to close it and come to find out now I owe them $130 dollars because of "continuous over draft". I then proceed in a very bad moood to the closest USbank and they tell me they won't close it til I pay it and the District manager is out of town and my branch manager is out of town and they won't do anyting about it. I also found out the day I talked to my branch manager I was already accumulating the daily fees, she just decided to omit that from me and let me leave, that just infuriated me. I then asked who the acting district manager was and they told me they can't tell me because she can't help me. So this whole time I have been trying to take care of it, I was accumulating daily fees, so with no other options I had to fork over another $125 for absolutely nothing, I mean the only reason I was overdrafted, was purely because of their fees. I paid the stupid people, I am going to write a formal complaint letter to the district and Regional manager. Then after all the runaround I find out they have been lying to me about what branch I open my account at, and they told me before that only the branch manager that you opend your account at can refund fees, but I find out that my branch I opened it at isn't the one have been dealing with, man, I just hate these people, I just want my stupid money back, not like they did anything for me.

I hate to tell you, but the way you were managing your account was not only in violation of the bank's policies, but also in violation of the law. You are just not supposed to take advantage of bank float like that. The fact that "everyone does it" does not really help your case. Also, I can't fault the bank personnel for not wanting to accommodate you, since it sounds like you put at least one of them through the ringer. They are people, too, you know. You may not agree with the policies or the fee structure, but you signed up for the account under it's conditions. Chalk it up to experience and move on. The bank is not going to refund your fees even if you show up at the board meeting. Any more time invested is time wasted. I'm sorry that it was a bad experience for you.

gessner17, I worked in a bank for nineteen years (thank God that's over with), and I can tell you that the banks have become real pricks lately with overdrafts. The main reason (at least in KC) is that they're making less spread from interest income (loans) and trying to pick up the difference with fee income (like checking and overdraft fees). I'm afraid Lurker's right: they won't refund your money even if you go to the board meeting. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif But here's what you need to do (trust me, I've been down the EXACT same road you have): Tell them to take a flying leap, go across the street to the competitor bank and open a checking account with overdraft protection. Thus, if you're ever overdrawn, the system (not stupid bankers) will automatically draw funds from another of your checking accounts or from your credit card account if the first account is ever in need. That way you won't have to worry again about overdraft fees (unless it's tied to the credit card and that's maxed, too). The down side is that you'll still have to talk to one of the yahoo's in the bank lobby initially to set the accounts up. Forget about US Bank. They could give a rat's *** about you. Move on, sell a ton of lights, then a few years down the road, buy that local US Bank branch and fire all the sonsabitches. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I know they have rules in place, but geez, Where did banks change to ONLY take adavantage of you and never give a $##@@ about you or your money. I just have never had this problem with any other bank, It just really ticks me off.

They give a $%&!# about their profits WAY more than us customers. Of course, they'd have you believe they're all about exceptional client service, blah blah blah. What a bunch of horse%$*&@! I understand why you're pissed. I would be, too. But hopefully my explanation above at least helps you understand more.

I know this, I have just never gotten screwd over this bad before... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

You want to write transactions (PayPal) without funds to cover the transaction in your account. I think this is a problem with most Financial Services Companies and carries criminal charges in many states when you do it with a paper check.

The primary reason float is disappearing is WE did not want holds put on our deposits (remember those 4 day holds for check to be collected from some where else in the country) so the Banks were forced to collect the funds faster to give them to us faster or be left holding the bag.

Additionally you want low loan rates and high interest paid on your deposits and no fees for services.

Not sure if all of these services are available without fees.

This is not the $#@&^%$ at the Bank is is US.

Key is the WE have put the Financial Services companies into this mode. WE will shop loan rates for the lowest rates. WE will shop deposits for the highest interest paid. WE want transactions to be processed for FREE and we do not want to keep funds in the account that the bank can invest to make some profits. WE want the Financial Services companies to make us whole when fraud is committed. WE stockholders want return on our investment. WE are forcing all of the banks to do this. So running from one bank to the next is only delaying the process.

Additionally, most stock funds and retirement funds have significant Financial Services Companies holdings, so WE had better hope these companies act this way, or our 401K's Mutual Funds and Stock Protfolios will take a hit.

This is not the old days where you put your money in the bank at 2 to 4%, got the loan at 6 to 10%, and didn't have to worry about 10% of the transactions being fraud and 10% of the Loans being defaulted.

The costs for 'services' continue to increase yet we want more services for less fees.

Check out the fees to even have an account these days at any of the national banks if you do not have significant balances or additional services.....

BTW: The former Chairman of US Bank pissed off one of his employees so bad a while ago that they kidnapped him and tied him to a tree in the woods.

US bank seems to be really messed up. We got a car loan through them and had issues getting plates for the car. Seems they ticked someone off so bad in the Ohio DMV that there are specail hoops one must jump through that the DMV knows about but USBank refuses to acknowlegde. I ended up going back and forth between the two for a long time. I had a similar problem with Bank One years ago. Would make a deposit on Monday and sometimes it would show up on Tuesday, but sometimes took until Friday. Would get a few if I used the bank card on Thursday because Monday's deposit was still pending. Then when I closed the account it was positive but they didn't actually close it so a few months later I started getting overdraft notices so when I called I tried to tell them I had closed the account months earlier but they wouldn't hear of it and kept insisting I couldn't close it until I paid the fees. It went negative due to minimum balance fees on their free no fee direct deposit checking account /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Stick with the smaller banks who care about keeping individual customers and you will be much happier.

Well, anytime a bank has a "goal" of how many overdraft fees need to be charged, theres something wrong.

I got screwed to the tune of $50 on an annual fee for an investment account that was guaranteed no-fee for life. This was after maintianing it for 15 years. My bank had merged with another bank who changed the account fee structure. Yes, I was royally pissed and of course argued the point and ultimately closed the account, but at some point you have to just take your lumps and move on. Apparently they had sent me some sort of notice, but I didn't notice it.

I also once closed a checking account and was told I would receive a check for the remaining balance. When the check showed up it was short the $12 account closing fee. Yes, this was a surprise to me. But actually it is pure evil genius. What better time to slap your customer with an unreasonable fee than whey they are terminating their relationship with you anyway. Ever since, I have drained my accounts before requesting their closure.

These things happend to me even though I have been a bank officer myself and am pretty up on the pitfalls. But there is one thing that is certain: whatever the bank does, they have already made certain that it is all perfectly legal and covered by the fine print somewhere. They have an entire department of lawyers working on that stuff all the time.

I just got hit with a $25 service fee at Chase Bank for a new book of checks. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Credit Unions anyone?
Some only need a $1 bill to join.
Both my credit unions have been great so far. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Never buy checks through a bank. Get them directiy from one of the check printing companies. They are soooo much cheaper.

And yes, thanks for bringing up credit unions. The non-profit alternative to banks. Too bad they are usually (always?) exclusive in membership, but if you can join one, you should take advantage of it! I recently got a foot in the door through a relative and am slowly moving stuff over there. What a breath of fresh air!

I originally got my foot in the door with one through a relative.
When I went to get my new truck; I told the dealer I had a credit union to finance with.
They then offered to hook me up with the biggest one in the county for an even lower rate.
Worked out just fine. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I had a vehicle loan with them at 5.99 percent on a 72 month note.
After I paid some of the principle off, I then refinanced a 60 month at that same credit union for only 3.99 with no problem. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
Long story shortened.
Sorry if I got us a bit off topic. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Well, everyone in the company is now back from vacation, went and talked to another branch manager (who was much more down to earth person) and got another $30,now I am only out $100. I may give up since I have talked to pretty much everyone here. I will probably still write a letter to the District Manager. Oh well, $30 is better than nothing I suppose.

While it's slightly off topic, the second headline story the last few days on the news that I listen to is the Google IPO and the fact that they are bypassing the normal investment banker route and doing a dutch auction for their stock. The investment bankers don't like this because it considerably cuts down on their profit and eliminates the kickbacks that they normally get from their big pocket investors that they usually let in on normal IPO's. I had no idea the system was so corrupt. While they didn't interview any Google people they did interview the CEO of overstock.com and he was hilarious. He explained how the 2 systems worked and how hard a time they had setting up a dutch auction for their own stock. He didn't mince any words when it came to describing the other bankers he worked with either. They found only 1 bank that would work with them, nobody else would even consider doing it that way. He called them "evil" and "spawn of satan" or some such and even the NPR guy doing the interview was laughing out loud.

So yes, banks are corrupt and evil. There's is an exclusive institution with considerable barriers to entry and yet their services are vital to the average person so they are prime candidates for corruption. Not to mention that amount of money that they play with on a daily basis /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Credit Unions seem to be better, and for the most part they are MUCH better than banks, but because they are non-profit and have a 'membership', they are governed by a whole different set of laws. As long as you don't have any financial trouble you should be OK.

Eg: Don't claim bankruptcy and include loans owned by your credit union that maintains your primary money account. I know someone who had to do this after a divorce, and the CU emptied ALL of the money he had in his accounts to 'offset' their losses in the bankruptcy filing. Technically, this is illegal to do, but due to a 'loophole' in the law, the CU got away with it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

In general though, CU's are still better than banks any day. Sometimes the larger CU's get to acting like banks though.

It's all an evil cycle. Just be done with it and bury all your money in coffee cans in the back yard! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Banks also reserve the "right of offset" in which they will apply your deposits against your loans if push comes to shove. This is not a Credit Union thing.

When it comes to checking accounts, you simply don't want to write an NSF (non-sufficient funds) check, which can happen for any number of innocent reasons. You'll lose most every time.

In 2002, NSF fees generated approximately $7 billion in net fee income for U.S. banks. Here's a quote from a well-known banking industry consultant: "Checking accounts are a goldmine [for fee income opportunities]."

Many banks are now offering what's called "overdraft privilege." Works like this: they'll agree to pay your check, rather than return it, even though it overdraws your account. They charge you $15-25, depending on the bank, for this "privilege." Typically, those who charge at low end of range will also charge an additional $5 daily fee if the account remains overdrawn for 3 consecutive business days.

Consider that if your bank pays a $100 check rather than bouncing it, they've made you a short-term $100 loan and charged you at least $15 – probably more – for the use of the money. That computes to one heck of an annual percentage rate. Those banks implementing this program have realized annual increases in NSF fee income of 50% or more, even after factoring in somewhat higher losses.

One last caveat – know how your bank handles "order of payment." When multiple checks arrive at your bank for payment on same day, does bank pay the small ones first, or the large ones first? Makes a difference. You have five $10 checks and one $50 check come same day, but you have only $75 in the account. If they pay small ones first, you have only one NSF check (for $50) and one NSF fee. If they pay the large one first, then two small ones, then you have 3 NSF checks, plus 3 NSF charges. They can go either way (though they have to be consistent).

A retired banker (loved the job, not some of the practices)

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