I really like the light and I am planning on using it for duty carry ie. on a duty belt in a Bianci "stinger" light holder. I have looked at this light at a Cabelas and I was unfortuanatly wasn't impresed witht the light output however it was very bright in there so really hard to judge. Is there any thing better out there or should I just wait for the Blackhawk light that is comming out? Any info would be greatfull I have very limited knowledge in this area. Thanks ahead of time.
New here planning on a SF M3 anything better?
- Thread starter ksshooter
- Start date
Help Support Candle Power Flashlight Forum
CQB
Enlightened
Ksshooter: welcome to CPF!
Firslty, the SF M3 is indeed a beeeautiful piece of kit! I myself prefer the newer combat bezel. In any case, you can upgrade with a turbohead as well - so much possibilities.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Secondly, I will go ahead and ask what others will most likely ask anyways... we need more info when someone is asking if a certain flashlight is a good "fit" or not, with someone's intended application.
I know you've said you're new so dont worry - please feel free to elaborate so other people can better answer your questions.
Duty use is good for starters. Are we using it indoors? Outdoors? Both? Are you usually lighting a target that is farther away, or close by, or both? Do you intend on using it with a firearm? Is runtime a concern? Do you prefer higher output or longer runtime? Have you considered the pro's & cons to rechargeable vs primary cells? Etc...
And maybe mention what your budget / comfort level is as well.
The more info you give us, the better responses you will receive, from my experience. Just brainstorm and we'll do our best to answer.
The M3 and the new upcoming lights from Blackhawk are two completely different animals. Both designed for "tactical" use but are completely different on many levels.
You will eventually get a few tips and pointers from the fine people here at CPF. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
be safe,
CQB
Firslty, the SF M3 is indeed a beeeautiful piece of kit! I myself prefer the newer combat bezel. In any case, you can upgrade with a turbohead as well - so much possibilities.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Secondly, I will go ahead and ask what others will most likely ask anyways... we need more info when someone is asking if a certain flashlight is a good "fit" or not, with someone's intended application.
I know you've said you're new so dont worry - please feel free to elaborate so other people can better answer your questions.
Duty use is good for starters. Are we using it indoors? Outdoors? Both? Are you usually lighting a target that is farther away, or close by, or both? Do you intend on using it with a firearm? Is runtime a concern? Do you prefer higher output or longer runtime? Have you considered the pro's & cons to rechargeable vs primary cells? Etc...
And maybe mention what your budget / comfort level is as well.
The more info you give us, the better responses you will receive, from my experience. Just brainstorm and we'll do our best to answer.
The M3 and the new upcoming lights from Blackhawk are two completely different animals. Both designed for "tactical" use but are completely different on many levels.
You will eventually get a few tips and pointers from the fine people here at CPF. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
be safe,
CQB
Neg2LED
Flashlight Enthusiast
anything better? how about a SF M6 
neg
neg
CQB I thought somone would want me to elaborate. OK. I am a Deputy Sheriff and my uses could be very broad indoor, outdoor, light up targets on night shoots, personal carry off duty.
I like the light output and I wouldn't won't anything less than a good 100 lumens. However I am a little concered about runtime but it isn't that big of a issue just have to carry a lot of batteries. Size is a issue I really like the light output of the M3 however it may be a bit big for daily carry and off duty concealed carry. M6 is not even close to what I need thanks for the idea though. I like the U2 however the price is getting out of my range. I am in the $180 range and this is what I can get a M3 for. I was also looking at the C3 and found that it may be close to what I am looking for however didn't look like the quality of the M3 that I can get for about 40 dollars more what is $40 if you are spending this much on a FL.
One other concern I have is how to carry these lights holsters, clips, etc. Also the run times, most of the time I will be using this light for general purpose so how long will a M3's batteries be good for general 5-10 second bursts? Also what is the main differance from the LED and Incadesents "sp" other than run time why can't they say a LED has a certain amount of lummens? I like the looks of the Blackhawk light and I think the strobe feature would be great just can't wait for it to come out I need a light now. Is there anyone else that makes good tactical lights the BlackHawk looks great but like I said I need one now. Streamline doesn't look like the quality of SF. One thing I forgot is SF web site states that Rechargables wouldn't be a good idea in so many words for tactical or duty carry this is the reason I wouldn't go with recharge and it makes sense.
Well I am at a loss for anything else. Please help me try to do my job with the best possible equipment.
I like the light output and I wouldn't won't anything less than a good 100 lumens. However I am a little concered about runtime but it isn't that big of a issue just have to carry a lot of batteries. Size is a issue I really like the light output of the M3 however it may be a bit big for daily carry and off duty concealed carry. M6 is not even close to what I need thanks for the idea though. I like the U2 however the price is getting out of my range. I am in the $180 range and this is what I can get a M3 for. I was also looking at the C3 and found that it may be close to what I am looking for however didn't look like the quality of the M3 that I can get for about 40 dollars more what is $40 if you are spending this much on a FL.
One other concern I have is how to carry these lights holsters, clips, etc. Also the run times, most of the time I will be using this light for general purpose so how long will a M3's batteries be good for general 5-10 second bursts? Also what is the main differance from the LED and Incadesents "sp" other than run time why can't they say a LED has a certain amount of lummens? I like the looks of the Blackhawk light and I think the strobe feature would be great just can't wait for it to come out I need a light now. Is there anyone else that makes good tactical lights the BlackHawk looks great but like I said I need one now. Streamline doesn't look like the quality of SF. One thing I forgot is SF web site states that Rechargables wouldn't be a good idea in so many words for tactical or duty carry this is the reason I wouldn't go with recharge and it makes sense.
Well I am at a loss for anything else. Please help me try to do my job with the best possible equipment.
Size matters...
I really wouldn't be carrying a M3 if i were you, carrying it daily could dirve me insane /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mpr.gif I would probaly look for a smaller one, but you also said that you wouldn't go for anything under 100lms? I guess that leaves you with a 3batt light(running the P61 in a 6P,120lms, i think, only goes for 20mins) Basically, LEDs are whiter than incads, however the produce more spill than throw, as for the rest of the questions, i'm really not that experienced to answer them, i'm sure someone will help!! Good luck man
I really wouldn't be carrying a M3 if i were you, carrying it daily could dirve me insane /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mpr.gif I would probaly look for a smaller one, but you also said that you wouldn't go for anything under 100lms? I guess that leaves you with a 3batt light(running the P61 in a 6P,120lms, i think, only goes for 20mins) Basically, LEDs are whiter than incads, however the produce more spill than throw, as for the rest of the questions, i'm really not that experienced to answer them, i'm sure someone will help!! Good luck man
pizzajoe62
Newly Enlightened
i'm not a police nor have any similar experience.
but more or less i know a thing or two about flashlights.
for your needs, i think a P61 in a 2 cell body, M2 or C2 maybe, will serve you well to about 20-30ft.
with a P90 & P91 in a 3 cell body, maybe up to around 45ft.
you can throw further with both provided you attach the turbo head & a different set of LAs...trade off is spill- narrower coverage & addt'l bulk.
both P61 & P91 need a lot of spare batts.
P90 can double runtime, 40-60 mins.
the M3's advantage over the C3 is the isolated shock bezel, likewise as the M2 over the C2.
also, the M3 has different LAs w/ a bit more lumens (MN10 & MN11), 125 & 225 lumens respectively.
i also think the incans has a little advantage over the leds
in outdoor use because it can penetrate ambiant light & perhaps fog better.
generally, incans are cheaper than leds too.
joe
but more or less i know a thing or two about flashlights.
for your needs, i think a P61 in a 2 cell body, M2 or C2 maybe, will serve you well to about 20-30ft.
with a P90 & P91 in a 3 cell body, maybe up to around 45ft.
you can throw further with both provided you attach the turbo head & a different set of LAs...trade off is spill- narrower coverage & addt'l bulk.
both P61 & P91 need a lot of spare batts.
P90 can double runtime, 40-60 mins.
the M3's advantage over the C3 is the isolated shock bezel, likewise as the M2 over the C2.
also, the M3 has different LAs w/ a bit more lumens (MN10 & MN11), 125 & 225 lumens respectively.
i also think the incans has a little advantage over the leds
in outdoor use because it can penetrate ambiant light & perhaps fog better.
generally, incans are cheaper than leds too.
joe
Thanks Pizzajoe you are making my decision easier. I think the C3 would prove to be a good light for me also. The shock isolated bezel isn't that big of a deal I don't plan on mounting it on anything right now anyway. Is this the reason the M3's head is so much bigger to accomidate for this compared to the C3? Also when is the "Gladius" suppose to come out and is there any other brands I should be looking at?
pizzajoe62
Newly Enlightened
glad to be of help.
yup, thats why the bezel is bigger.
take note as i edited my post...regarding M3's LAs.
there is a review of the gladius light in the reviews section.
joe
yup, thats why the bezel is bigger.
take note as i edited my post...regarding M3's LAs.
there is a review of the gladius light in the reviews section.
joe
CQB
Enlightened
ok. That's better! Now here's my 2 cents...
To me it sounds like you can get a deal on a SF M3. Regular retail for a brand new M3 is $252 USD. So if you can get it for less (i think you said $180) then that's a pretty good deal - to me at least - especially if it's brand new.
You wanted 100+ lumens. The M3 will deliver.
You said runtime is not that big an issue. So just make sure you keep spare 123s handy, in multiples of 3 of course. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
You also said you'd be using the M3 with 5-10 second bursts. SF advertises that 3 cells should last approx upto 60 minutes of continuous runtime. Most of us here would then say that the actual time would be less since by the end of the 60 minutes the output would be severely diminished. Out comes the new batteries. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
For carrying, I prefer holsters on a duty belt or regular belt. I like nylon. SF of course, sells a special polymer holster for the M3. I'm sure you are already aware of that. It's on their website. The M3 is a very uniquely shaped light so finding an aftermarket holster may be challenging. But maybe someone else can give you better leads for this.
Streamlight (not streamline) makes great lights IMO. But I agree that their overall quality is not identical fo SF's. But their products generally cost less. A light to compare to the SF M3 is perhaps the SL TL3.
Rechargeable vs disposable. For regular duty use I prefer rechargeable. My duty light gets lots of regular use (day and night) so going rechargeable is more cost effective for me. My duty light (I'm in security) is the SF L7. I keep it charged and keep a charged spare batt available as well. For most close and medium range lighting needs the L7 does me proud.
Last point: Size & output. The M3 *is* on the longer/larger end of the scale. And I agree its size doesnt allow it to be the best for off-duty concealed carry. I prefer any of the SF E series for plain clothes use. But you wont get the output of the M3 then. You will have to decide what is important to you right now. Another quick point to make is there are times you dont NEED the output of an M3. Say you only need light for something up close. The M3 would be overkill! So if you still use the M3 EVERYtime you need a little or a lot of light, then you will find your batteries dont last too long afterall. That's why some people carry multiple lights, or a light that has multiple output levels.
I say, get the M3 or the C3 (I have the C3 and I love it) ! Both are durable, bright, & dependable. Use either for when you really need to punch holes in the dark. For other times that are less "critical" maybe get another lower output light that will give you longer runtime. Many LED lights would suffice. I like the Inova X5T. Not too expensive and built like a tank! There are plenty of other LED lights to choose from.
Hope this helped a little. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Either way you go, good luck!
Be safe,
CQB
ps. With all its advertised features, The Gladius is a one of a kind of lighting tool. I cant think of another brand / model that would be a fair comparison. Definitely high end. Definitely one I cannot afford. Definitely one that I *will* end up buying anyways. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/broke.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
To me it sounds like you can get a deal on a SF M3. Regular retail for a brand new M3 is $252 USD. So if you can get it for less (i think you said $180) then that's a pretty good deal - to me at least - especially if it's brand new.
You wanted 100+ lumens. The M3 will deliver.
You said runtime is not that big an issue. So just make sure you keep spare 123s handy, in multiples of 3 of course. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
You also said you'd be using the M3 with 5-10 second bursts. SF advertises that 3 cells should last approx upto 60 minutes of continuous runtime. Most of us here would then say that the actual time would be less since by the end of the 60 minutes the output would be severely diminished. Out comes the new batteries. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
For carrying, I prefer holsters on a duty belt or regular belt. I like nylon. SF of course, sells a special polymer holster for the M3. I'm sure you are already aware of that. It's on their website. The M3 is a very uniquely shaped light so finding an aftermarket holster may be challenging. But maybe someone else can give you better leads for this.
Streamlight (not streamline) makes great lights IMO. But I agree that their overall quality is not identical fo SF's. But their products generally cost less. A light to compare to the SF M3 is perhaps the SL TL3.
Rechargeable vs disposable. For regular duty use I prefer rechargeable. My duty light gets lots of regular use (day and night) so going rechargeable is more cost effective for me. My duty light (I'm in security) is the SF L7. I keep it charged and keep a charged spare batt available as well. For most close and medium range lighting needs the L7 does me proud.
Last point: Size & output. The M3 *is* on the longer/larger end of the scale. And I agree its size doesnt allow it to be the best for off-duty concealed carry. I prefer any of the SF E series for plain clothes use. But you wont get the output of the M3 then. You will have to decide what is important to you right now. Another quick point to make is there are times you dont NEED the output of an M3. Say you only need light for something up close. The M3 would be overkill! So if you still use the M3 EVERYtime you need a little or a lot of light, then you will find your batteries dont last too long afterall. That's why some people carry multiple lights, or a light that has multiple output levels.
I say, get the M3 or the C3 (I have the C3 and I love it) ! Both are durable, bright, & dependable. Use either for when you really need to punch holes in the dark. For other times that are less "critical" maybe get another lower output light that will give you longer runtime. Many LED lights would suffice. I like the Inova X5T. Not too expensive and built like a tank! There are plenty of other LED lights to choose from.
Hope this helped a little. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Either way you go, good luck!
Be safe,
CQB
ps. With all its advertised features, The Gladius is a one of a kind of lighting tool. I cant think of another brand / model that would be a fair comparison. Definitely high end. Definitely one I cannot afford. Definitely one that I *will* end up buying anyways. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/broke.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Too bad there just isn't a easy compromise. Does anyone have any experiance with the U2 Ultra. Seems like it is a bit more expensive but could be a great do all light? I take it I am looking at the right brand then SF? Also is the Gladious going to be available soon?
pizzajoe62
Newly Enlightened
check out this site: http://www.flashlightreviews.com/features/shootout_30th_sec/frameset.html
there are a lot of lights that you can actually compare beams against each other.
also a good place to compare leds against incams.
joe
there are a lot of lights that you can actually compare beams against each other.
also a good place to compare leds against incams.
joe
[ QUOTE ]
ksshooter said:
Too bad there just isn't a easy compromise. Does anyone have any experiance with the U2 Ultra. Seems like it is a bit more expensive but could be a great do all light? I take it I am looking at the right brand then SF? Also is the Gladious going to be available soon?
[/ QUOTE ]
The Gladius is available for preorder at www.strategosstore.com or by calling 888-432-7966. We will be fulfilling and shipping preorders on a first come, first served basis sometime in March. Although we will collect payment info at the time of the order your card will not be billed until we ship your order. Let me know if I can help further.
Sincerely,
Lance Baker
Strategos Professional Products, LLC
888-432-7966 or 816-899-2347
[email protected]
ksshooter said:
Too bad there just isn't a easy compromise. Does anyone have any experiance with the U2 Ultra. Seems like it is a bit more expensive but could be a great do all light? I take it I am looking at the right brand then SF? Also is the Gladious going to be available soon?
[/ QUOTE ]
The Gladius is available for preorder at www.strategosstore.com or by calling 888-432-7966. We will be fulfilling and shipping preorders on a first come, first served basis sometime in March. Although we will collect payment info at the time of the order your card will not be billed until we ship your order. Let me know if I can help further.
Sincerely,
Lance Baker
Strategos Professional Products, LLC
888-432-7966 or 816-899-2347
[email protected]
MrBenchmark
Enlightened
One nice thing about the M3 is that you can put a KL6 LED head on it. I have an L6, which is essentially just what I described. decent spill, lots of throw, couple of hours of really bright light for an LED. You can also go with an M3 turbo head if you really need throw. So the M3 is a very flexible platform. Although this light is bigger than some of the lights here, it is by no means a large light. I carry mine hiking all the time.
[ QUOTE ]
ksshooter said:
Thanks Pizzajoe you are making my decision easier. I think the C3 would prove to be a good light for me also. The shock isolated bezel isn't that big of a deal I don't plan on mounting it on anything right now anyway. Is this the reason the M3's head is so much bigger to accomidate for this compared to the C3? Also when is the "Gladius" suppose to come out and is there any other brands I should be looking at?
[/ QUOTE ]
The Gladius is available for preorder now at www.strategosstore.com or by calling 888-432-7966. We will be fulfilling and shipping on a first come, first served basis sometime in March. Although we will collect your payment info at the time of purchase your card will not be billed until we ship your order. Let me know if I can help further.
Sincerely,
Lance Baker
Strategos Professional Products, LLC
888-432-7966 or 816-899-2347
[email protected]
ksshooter said:
Thanks Pizzajoe you are making my decision easier. I think the C3 would prove to be a good light for me also. The shock isolated bezel isn't that big of a deal I don't plan on mounting it on anything right now anyway. Is this the reason the M3's head is so much bigger to accomidate for this compared to the C3? Also when is the "Gladius" suppose to come out and is there any other brands I should be looking at?
[/ QUOTE ]
The Gladius is available for preorder now at www.strategosstore.com or by calling 888-432-7966. We will be fulfilling and shipping on a first come, first served basis sometime in March. Although we will collect your payment info at the time of purchase your card will not be billed until we ship your order. Let me know if I can help further.
Sincerely,
Lance Baker
Strategos Professional Products, LLC
888-432-7966 or 816-899-2347
[email protected]
leukos
Flashlight Enthusiast
ksshooter,
I'm another non-duty user here, but my vote would go for the C3. I think it is the sleeper of the SF incandescent line. On a duty belt, being an inch or so shorter than the M3 may mean less discomfort while sitting in your vehicle. Here's a list of pros:
3 cell configuration
105 lumens for 1 hour
200 lumens for 20 minutes
SF/Rodgers grip
can run off of 2 Pila 150s rechargable lithiums (big bonus)
can be used with SF turbo heads (KT1, KT2)
shorter, lighter, and cheaper than the M3
can replace the bezel with the M2 bezel if you want shock resistance
lifetime guarantee
HA III finish
Pyrex lens
easy bulb replacement while in the field
can use KL5 LED head
plus most of SF's accessories
Again, I don't use this light for duty use, but it is my go to incandescent light that can be accessorized/modularized for just about any situation. My L2 is for all the other poking around I do. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
I'm another non-duty user here, but my vote would go for the C3. I think it is the sleeper of the SF incandescent line. On a duty belt, being an inch or so shorter than the M3 may mean less discomfort while sitting in your vehicle. Here's a list of pros:
3 cell configuration
105 lumens for 1 hour
200 lumens for 20 minutes
SF/Rodgers grip
can run off of 2 Pila 150s rechargable lithiums (big bonus)
can be used with SF turbo heads (KT1, KT2)
shorter, lighter, and cheaper than the M3
can replace the bezel with the M2 bezel if you want shock resistance
lifetime guarantee
HA III finish
Pyrex lens
easy bulb replacement while in the field
can use KL5 LED head
plus most of SF's accessories
Again, I don't use this light for duty use, but it is my go to incandescent light that can be accessorized/modularized for just about any situation. My L2 is for all the other poking around I do. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Another "sleeper" is the Laser Devices OP-9. Smaller than an M3 but still has a shock isolated bezel and high quality clickie tailcap. Overall build quality is in line with higher end SF's and it has the best beam of all of my flashlights. Downside is that it is priced like higher end SF's as well.
Sorry to muddy the waters.
Sorry to muddy the waters.
Ken J. Good
Enlightened
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2001
- Messages
- 590
Agreed on Laser Devices.
The make excellent flashlights and other laser tools.
The make excellent flashlights and other laser tools.
I'd recommend getting a Shock-isolated bezel for any light that will see serious use.
I have them on both my C3's, and put one on my 6Z.
As an owner of the C3 and M3, I'd recommend you handle both. Don't automatically "settle for" the C3. I much prefer the M3's grip.
Also, look into carrying the M3 when in uniform, with a smaller backup (E2, L4, E1L) which can:
1) perform smaller lighting tasks without too much light, and reserve the M3's batteries.
2) feed off not-fresh batteries so the M3 always has fresh ones.
3) always be with you, even with then M3 is too much.
4) be a backup if the M3 goes down for any reason.
I have them on both my C3's, and put one on my 6Z.
As an owner of the C3 and M3, I'd recommend you handle both. Don't automatically "settle for" the C3. I much prefer the M3's grip.
Also, look into carrying the M3 when in uniform, with a smaller backup (E2, L4, E1L) which can:
1) perform smaller lighting tasks without too much light, and reserve the M3's batteries.
2) feed off not-fresh batteries so the M3 always has fresh ones.
3) always be with you, even with then M3 is too much.
4) be a backup if the M3 goes down for any reason.
Thanks for everyones comments. I think I have made my decision a long time ago I just should have stuck with it, ough well I like to do as much research as possible.
I am going to stick with the M3 for the following reasons. Blikbok pretty much summed my needs up thanks a lot.
*S-isolated bezel "I am hard on equipment and this light can't fail me" I don't have the option of failure. I may also mount on a weapon down the road. Is there any mounts that would work for a pistol however it would be heavy?
*I won't a lot of light for my "main" duty light.
*Very good point I am going to get a small very long run time LED for general purpose use.
*The size isn't really a issue, I think I have found a good holster for it.
*The price is the only draw back considering I am now going to be looking for two lights. I see how you guys get addicted to this. Also I look at some of the SF collection posts, you guys need SF rehab....just kidding..awsome collections to say the least.
*I really really like the M3's grip other than being just a tad heavy at the bezel it has a perfect grip I think.
This is all contingent "sp" on the Gladius not being available by the middle of March. I absolutely need a light in my paws by March 18th.
I am going to stick with the M3 for the following reasons. Blikbok pretty much summed my needs up thanks a lot.
*S-isolated bezel "I am hard on equipment and this light can't fail me" I don't have the option of failure. I may also mount on a weapon down the road. Is there any mounts that would work for a pistol however it would be heavy?
*I won't a lot of light for my "main" duty light.
*Very good point I am going to get a small very long run time LED for general purpose use.
*The size isn't really a issue, I think I have found a good holster for it.
*The price is the only draw back considering I am now going to be looking for two lights. I see how you guys get addicted to this. Also I look at some of the SF collection posts, you guys need SF rehab....just kidding..awsome collections to say the least.
*I really really like the M3's grip other than being just a tad heavy at the bezel it has a perfect grip I think.
This is all contingent "sp" on the Gladius not being available by the middle of March. I absolutely need a light in my paws by March 18th.
