AIM users...chat is "owned" by AOL...

AIM users...chat is \"owned\" by AOL...

food for thought: AOL has right to publish anything written/sent through AIM if you registered or downloaded any of their products in the last year.

http://channels.lockergnome.com/windows/archives/20050314_aol_can_publish_your_chats.phtml

interesting, and certainly odd. i wonder what benefit they will get, if any?

Re: AIM users...chat is \"owned\" by AOL...

This has been updated with:

E-Week:

[ QUOTE ]
Updated: America Online quells public criticism of changes to its AIM terms of service, insisting the controversial privacy clause does not pertain to user-to-user instant messaging communication.
...snip...
America Online spokesman Andrew Weinstein, however, maintained that AOL does not monitor, read or review any user-to-user communication through the AIM network, except in response to a valid legal process.
...snip...
Rob Hyndman, a technology lawyer based in Ontario, pointed out that the terms of service covers the entire AIM product and does not explicitly exclude instant messaging.
...snip...
"To be fair to them, I think the errors are innocent, and more the result of sloppy drafting and a reflexively heavy-handed approach to drafting TOS," he said.
...snip...
In addition, he pointed to the very last line in the terms of service, which reads: "The section headings used herein are for convenience only and shall not be given any legal import." That line, Hyndman asserted, renders Weinstein's explanation weak.

[/ QUOTE ]

-Bill

Re: AIM users...chat is \"owned\" by AOL...

So how are they going to know what you sent through AIM unless it is monitored?

One more reason to get Skype I suppose.

Re: AIM users...chat is \"owned\" by AOL...

Actually, this is not uncommon.

If you were to do a little research, you'd discover that the courts ruled in a case this year that all e-mail and chat passing through a server is property of the owner of that server unless otherwise you have a contract that says otherwise.

A disclaimer from AOL that "we would not do that" is worthless, at the very least, and most likely deceitful.

Unless you can find something to the contrary, every message posted to CPF and every e-mail is property of Sasha. The court case mentioned above was an enthusiasts BBS (I forget what product) that provided e-mail. The person running the BBS was giving copies of the e-mail to one of the members who was a competitor to the others.

AIM probably does not have the time to monitor IMs, but I'm sure you can imagine where it would be a competitive advantage to track IMs coming from a competitor, especially if the IM mentions AOL.

Daniel

Re: AIM users...chat is \"owned\" by AOL...

i dont know about the regular AIM software, but the Mac client for it "iChat" has an option to connect directly to the user in question rather than through the AIM servers. It uses the servers to locate the other person and makes a direct connection to them, which of course means that you have to have the right ports opened up on your firewalls or passed through your router/gateways, but does get them out of the loop with a single click and without requiring any other software or anything. i use this pretty regularly, i'm not sure if I"m really paranoid about AOL watching the stupid links and such that I send around, but I just got into the habit in the very beginning and still use it quite a bit.

I'd love to see more TOS and EULA stuff tested in court, there is some really obnoxious stuff in many of them.

Re: AIM users...chat is \"owned\" by AOL...

You can read more about it at www.snopes.com. Basically, AOL doesn't monitor your IM chat, but retains rights over what you post to their bulletin boards. It really isn't different than any other BBS or forum. I'm sure CPF has the same user agreement over posts here.

RadarGreg

Re: AIM users...chat is \"owned\" by AOL...

Anyone who uses AOL products deserves what they get.

Re: AIM users...chat is \"owned\" by AOL...

I didn't mean to imply they monitor, since that is a different can of worms, but curious as to what benefit they possibly foresee from that particular phrasing. If Endeavor, for example, wished to publish his CPF Centigrade story, he as author retains copyright, normally, but what if, as you say, CPF does because it was posted here?

Not trying to stir up a flame, just trying to figure out how this would work.

Re: AIM users...chat is \"owned\" by AOL...

In the case that went to court, the forum was supplied by a company. For grins, lets say it was a plastics manufacturing forum. The forum attracted some very innovative people who shared design and marketing ideas via private message. The company running the forum was then able to leverage the designs and ideas in making their own products.

In CPF, it would be like Sasha giving Peak access (for a fee???) to the PMs between Mr Bulk and Georges80. Peak could save a bundle in R&D and Sasha could buy a new pair of pretty shoes.


Daniel

Re: AIM users...chat is \"owned\" by AOL...

That's why whenever I plan on overthrowing the government or robbing a bank I use the phone...and talk in code. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Re: AIM users...chat is \"owned\" by AOL...

The concept that "infrastructure" organizations (ISPs, websites, IM providers, email providers, etc) "own" everything that flows across their systems is hardly new. Most claim the right to monitor everything that's transmitted or sent. Many will claim that communications on their system are not secure. Some claim ownership of what's posted.

An entity with either public or private-facing information that claims ownership of content also faces potential liability for its members' behavior.

Microsoft was once so bold as to claim that they owned everything that went through Hotmail regardless of copyright or patent. If MS tried to make it stick, they'd lose many many many many many many lawsuits and likely cease to exist. They'd be a more attractive target than the tobacco and insurance industries.

From what I've gathered, CPF does not claim copyright over the contents of posts.

Re: AIM users...chat is \"owned\" by AOL...

[ QUOTE ]
DarkLight said:
Anyone who uses AOL products deserves what they get.

[/ QUOTE ]

Some say that AOL has a 'niche market' which is only made up of web newbees and that they are only able to hold their market share year after year because of the continuing unprecedented growth of the web -- they have a huge demographic of new users...all the time.

I'm at a loss as to what they could have in mind with this policy. All of AOL's policies are loopy. Where I live they run these ads that talk about all of the things AOL does to make their users more secure, but they have a very poor track record. They have a history of covering up security breaches instead of trying to fix them.

Re: AIM users...chat is \"owned\" by AOL...

They run AOL on Microsoft Operating systems and you expect security? MS has even institutionalized the covering up of security breaches by refusing advance information to any organization that discloses a breach before MS gives them permission. Yup, there's an official sign up list for microsoft security bullitens where you have to sign an agreement to not publish news of weaknesses in microsoft products.

AOL has more than just newbies. They have many long term satisfied customers who think they are getting the best that the net has to offer.

Personally, I don't care for AOL, but I did appreciate the free floppy disks they used to send.

Daniel

Re: AIM users...chat is \"owned\" by AOL...

[ QUOTE ]
gadget_lover said:
They run AOL on Microsoft Operating systems and you expect security?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yikes! I didn't know that. /Looks for wrist slashing Graemlin.

[ QUOTE ]
AOL has more than just newbies. They have many long term satisfied customers who think they are getting the best that the net has to offer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Go figure.