Personal Defense

What lights do you recommend for personal defense?

I had a few ideas:

1) SF E2D -- 60 lumens + crenellations (sp?)

2) Large D-cell Maglites --they're bright and good clubs but difficult to carry

3) SL batonlight -- it's a kubotan and a light

4) Gladius -- I suppose the strobe action might be useful as a weapon

My personal opinion using a light for self defense should be used as a setup for some other kind of weapon. You might buy yourself a few seconds blinding the person be he will adjust to light. In this case the mag could be used as a club.

The one hanging off the bottom of my Sig .40

I wouldn't consider a flashlight for personal defense. The SF crenalations are a joke, unless one is training in pain compliance (most of us are NOT). Shining a tactical light at someone only has a temporary effect, if they really want to hurt you the light won't stop them.

My opinion says to use a true personal defense weapon for defense (firearm for example, or whatever you are comfortable with), and use a flashlight as a deterrent (criminals tend to avoid lighted areas and don't want to be seen).


If you REALLY insist on depending on the flashlight as a weapon, I vote for option 2 or 3. At least these options have SOME teeth. A D Maglite size 4D and up packs a modest punch...

Hi, Totem. Welcome to CPF! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I did give out my humble opinion about pros and cons of E2D as a EDC (double as a 'last resort' weapon here):
New to light

E2D or simply flashlight as weapon and excellent discussion here:
How much damage can an E2D do?

As I always say, the first line of 'self defense' should be what between your ears, and that should always stay sharp.

And use common sense, do not ask yourself how to handle a conflict, but why going down that dark alley at the first place...common sense/calm mind could be save your day. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Think about the elements of staying safe:

1. Avoidance
2. Escape and evasion
3. Fighting

Unless you are a cop or soldier, you want to start with #1 and work your way down. A very bright flashlight allows you to see into possible hiding places for bad guys. It allows you to identify a person from a distance, their demeanor, numbers, equipment and other information. A flashlight may have some deterrent effect on bad guys--particularly large aluminum club style lights.

A flashlight can be flashed on and off to gain the attention of police or security or good samaritans.

Finally, flashlights can be used as basic clubs when fighting is your last recourse. However, you should look into more convienient and effective weapons for this purpose.

A heavy C or D Mag's usefulness is debatable in such circumstances. A heavy object (like the Mag) takes more effort and longer arc to swing with the desired effect, (although the kinetic energy is high) it makes it easier to avoid/duck or anticipate. Being light, fast and nimble is the key.

Having used flashlights (as a civilian) for a dozen or so "close encounters", I strongly concur with Lightraven's and mclu2's thoughts.

Think, first, of AVOIDING trouble. By using flashlight(s) as a kind of tactical "early warning" system (searching the shadows where predators hide-in-wait) you'll avoid being surprised and often "preempt" some attacks. Now, that's just for starters.

(Warning: this gets kinda political. I've seen the movie, and I ain't talkin' Michael Moore's. No flaming intended here; no apologies, either.)

Survivors anticipate. They're never surprised, because they live in "Condition Orange" alertness (considered "paranoia" by the P.C.-conditioned pacifist Sheeple who preach Zero Tolerance for ANY weapons or "aggression" and live in "Condition White" let's-all-sing-Kumbaya-for-the-common-good/niceynice-think). That also means one needs to read/study the teachings of the great self-defense pistol-craft gurus, like Jeff Cooper, Massad Ayoob, and John Farnam, etc. -- and pay the price to (a) develop skills with certain weapons, and (b) cultivate a warrior Mind-Set and (c) integrate it all into your lifestyle... with the opinions of mommies, teachies, girlies, and rave-clubbies, etcetera, be damned.

A flashlight, by itself, is a poor weapon. However, when woven into your own "force continuum" (O.C./pepper-gas --> baton impact weapon --> Gun; knife back-up) the flashlight literally shines.

Every time I deployed a flashlight in a "crunch" scenario -- without showing any other weapon, I believe my body language ("command presence") strongly suggested that I was one mean MoFo with blue steel under my jacket. One is not born with such a demeanor, and societal conditioning strives to eradicate any whiff of it. However, waving some flashlight like Woody Allen waving linguini at a N.Y. taxi and hoping it'll scare a coven of Hells Angels on PCP twirling Bali-Song knives in your girlfriend's face is just a wet dream.

Flashlights can be fun techy-toys AND useful tools. However, like the immortal Dirty Harry said, "A man has got to know his limitations." As survival tools, flashlights have a key place... within tactical AND user-imposed limitations.

The one time I actually used a flashlight (a MAG-charger) as a weapon: I was first (civilian) on the scene of a fatal head-on crash... caused by a drunk who was hardly injured himself. As no cops had yet arrived, I began to direct traffic and then attempt first-aid on the critical victim. Then, the drunk-driver attacked me! One stiff gut-whack with the MAG made him "see the light" immediately.

By the way, when the cops and para-meds did arrive, I was the only guy with a potent-enough flashlight to guide the Flight-For-Life helicopter clear of power-lines and into a safe landing at an adjacent cow-pasture!

Seriously, like others have said...using a flashing as a "defensive" tool, is more for marketing purposes. I feel the same way with the word "tactical" in flashlights.
Unless the flashlight is designed to withstand the recoils of a weapon and truly bright enough to be used in combat, "tactical" is overrated.

Blah, just my 2 cents.

A streamlight m6 with a glock 21c attached /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
or for a little bigger light a streamlight tl3 with a m4 attached...No thats self defense

Large D cell lights

When I go jogging at night I bring my 21 inch ASP Airweight baton and attached to it is their ASP TRIAD light makes it about 26 inches fully extended. The whole thing weighs less than a pound but sure does pack a wallop !!!! God Bless. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

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totem said:What lights do you recommend for personal defense?

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Probably none - well, maybe a 6 or 8 D-cell maglight if you can't get a hold of anything better for personal defense than a black anodized battery tube with a light tacked onto the front. I use my lights to temporarily blind and disorient while I send other 'objects' flying downrange at very high velocities for my personal defense....

Currently, my light of choice for causing 'bumps in the night' to see white spots while I get ready to introduce them to some flying dark spots is an L4 overdriven with some of AW's Protected/Rechargeable R123's. I swear I must be getting 80+ lumens out of that thing now.

The only flashlight i would consider for personal defense is a tigerlight with pepperspray.
i would not only rely on a huge amount of light output or crenelation.
marc

Hi,
I'm afraid I agree with most of the previous posters about the value of a light as a self defense device. If that is valid then we must have to discuss the value of a firearm as an illumination device...see what I mean. In their advertising blurbs, companies in trying to sell a product will tell of all the things their product can do. What they don't tell you though is that Steve Tarani (Surefire instructor) could mortally wound you with a coca cola bottle top. If you are trained well enough, any weapon will serve you well but MOST people either are not trained enough or, more critically, are not even interested in training enough to be even minimally efficient.
If you are thinking of using a light to momentarily impair the vision of an assailant so you can nut kick him, hit him on the back of the neck with a club flashlight and then run like hell then by all means use a light but realize what you are using the club to do.
A scrape or two across the face with a crenellated flashlight bezel, unless you know what you are doing, is only going to **** someone off.

If defending yourself or your loved ones or even innocent strangers is your purpose then, by all means, enroll in a balls out gun course taught by a reputable instructor (beware there are charlatans out there) and learn how to use a firearm. And then, practice, practice, practice.
Remember, too, run from a knife and stand and fight a gun.

This is too lengthy a subjectto cover in a column but if you are concerned about your safety, NOW is the time to train to protect it when it is threatened. Training will separate the sheep from the goats.

Respectfully,
vhyper

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vhyper007 said:Remember, too, run from a knife and stand and fight a gun.

[/ QUOTE ]Those are truly words to live by. You all might laugh, but a knife fight scares me more than an exchange of gunfire. Even with an untrained attacker, it's hard to get out of most knife fights w/o some pretty serious wounds....but in a gunfight, at least the other guy could miss !

... WOW /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif soumeone on the head with a light has aways been discuraged by every traner that I have ever spoken to... On the outher hand they also say "do what you need to do to go home at the end of the night" and "beter to be juged by 12 then careyed by 6" so on that note look for soumthing called the AirTazer X26,It has nice red lazer and two white LEDs. Probley my favoret tool, varey unnerving to be infront of. I carey it on and off duty (security gurd) along with a surefire E2E and a Sig P229. Aways were the two in a varey difrend place IE one on the belt and one in a sholder holster so that you dont pull the wrong one. Just my thoughts.

I fall into the a flashlight is an illumination tool not a weapon camp. Best case scenario is flash, bash and run like hell.

I also fall into the camp that I am not convinced a flashlight should be mounted on a firearm unless absolutely necessary or unless you are in a situation where you are expected/encourage to use force as the first option (House clearing in Iraq/Military operations/SWAT Shield Bearer,K9 unit etc.) The problem with having a mounted weapon is that you must use the weapon to point the flashlight and therefore sweep the unidentified target in my normal Joe Sixpack life chances are somebody coming in late at night could be a family member or some such incident that you may want a firearm ready but you want to illuminate before you point a firearm at them. This is why I prefer handgun and a seperate flashlight.

Now should you use an E2D to flash and bash the bridge of somebody's nose or temples then it will hurt them and it should buy you a couple of seconds to run. You should never want to injur anybody anymore then is necessary to save your own or loved ones skin. Same with a BAM (Big Assed Maglite). You smack somebody with a BAM you will most likely stun them for a second or two but unless you get really really lucky they are not going down.

Always remember, humans are incredibly resilliant to damage/pain and death and in most cases people go down not due to physical damage but due to a psychological imperitive that tells them they have been seriously wounded and therefore must go down.

The only way to be almost sure to incapacitate somebody almost instantly is to disrupt their central nervous system in a tramatic way and I just don't see any flashlight doing that.

Course if you could lug around one of those sunfire's or whatever they are called that hang under helicopters that would probably work to burn the retina's of an assailent at 30 to 60 yards or so. Technically I guess that would make a passable weapon but think of the battery cost and finding a holster for it Fughetaboutit.

Chris (Well armed and ready to run away screaming like a little girl) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

One more thing my primary defensive mechanism that has served me well for many years is let go of your pride and buy them a beer. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Of course this doesn't work for muggers/rapists/killers etc. but it does wonders to de-escalate most real world stupid stuff in bars or elsewhere.

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Mednanu said:
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vhyper007 said:Remember, too, run from a knife and stand and fight a gun.

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Those are truly words to live by. You all might laugh...

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/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif That's a new one to me. I think I'm denser than usual this morning. Could you explain this?

Britt