What is time?

[get-lit]

Unfortunately, 1.21 Gigawatts in this case also = 3 Megabytes, which is a lotta bandwidth. Your gifs are excellent (esp. the Hypnotoad) but they are huge in memory terms. I'll have to consult on this, but I think you will have to take them down and replace them with links.

That image is hosted remotely, so it has no affect on candlepowerforums.com bandwidth or memory usage. To the candlepowerforums.com server, the image is the same as just a link. The candlepowerforums.com server only trasmits the HTML code to instruct the browser to reference the image elsewhere, and the candlepowerforums.com server is unaware as to whether or not the image even exists. That's up to the browser and imageshack.us where the image is hosted. The bandwidth and memory is consumed at imageshack.us.

EDIT: Off subject, but as a kid I do remember seeing JC Penny in the movie. I remember because it kind of made the movie more real for me then, kind of like wow that could be happening right around the corner. Here's some info about the location... http://www.seeing-stars.com/Locations/BTTF2.shtml

 

[DM51]

I put it badly by mentioning bandwidth. It's really more to do with the problem some users have with the time it takes to load images. There's no rule on it that I can see, so it's probably OK, but I'm checking just in case.

 

[jtr1962]

Back in the days of 56K some might have complained, but these days practically everyone has broadband of some type. I usually get over 20 Mbps down and 500 Kbps up. The size of those images is a non-issue for me.

 

[DM51]

It is confirmed that the maximum 800 x 800 pixel dimensions are the rule. The file size in kb/Mb is not an issue.

 

[asdalton]

Not according to my understanding of quantum mechanical theory. Not only is it impossible for us to see an underlying exact and deterministic "God" state of the universe, no such state exists. The non-existence of this state has real world observable effects.

In QM, the "state" is the wave function, which evolves deterministically over time. The counterintuitive part is how experimentally measurable quantities come out of the wave function, and that is the subject of ongoing debate (the qualitative interpretation, not how to calculate probabilities based on the wave function).

 

[get-lit]

I'm sorry, I'm confused by that statement. Experimentally measurable quantities? The wave function does not alter quantity, but rather it determines the probability of the speed and position of the particle at the instant of observation.

 

[Patriot]

In science the saying goes that absolutely nothing is 'proven', and that surely goes for quantum mechanics as well. Quantum mechanics is however the current accepted model for what it's worth.

Quantum mechanics is the accepted model in what regard?

If you mean that Quantum mechanics is accepted as scientific theory, yes it is. If you mean that QM giving rise to spawned universes from a multiverse is the accepted explanation, then no, it's really is not.

The current accepted and purely scientific model is that the universe had a beginning and that's about all science can tell us right now. Yes, it's accepted by some some in the AP community but acceptance isn't wide spread. It's still rejected or ignored by others simply because it leaves them no where to go.

QM/QP is a very small discipline in the larger heading of AP. In fact, most astrophysicists are sticking to the known universe or what is testable/verifiable/repeatable. For example, there is far more effort going into the study of sub-atomic particle behavior in relation to the beginning of the universe than multiverse theorizing. QM relating to multiverse theory quickly dead ends since these ideas leave them no where to go in any practical sense.

Even if it was true that QM is the "accepted model" it could be classified as a dogmatic assertion for "science" to accept something that is neither provable or disprovable whatsoever. True science by definition works within the parameters of what it knows is true. Speculation can be part of science but full acceptance of an notion based off of horribly incomplete date is bad science.

 

[get-lit]

With all due respect, quantum mechanics is definitely not bad science. Being consistent with and in combination with the other accepted studies, including relativity, it is a major piece of the puzzle that forms modern scientific understanding of the universe. Quantum mechanics is definitely about sub-atomic particle behavior as well, in the most fundamental regard I might add.

I get the impression that you feel that QM is not a real world study, as you've said that it has little practical use without being testable/verifiable/repeatable etc. To me, the testable/verifiable/repeatable real world observations of QM are absolutely the most amazing observations we could possibly make and I really feel that you are missing out on a lot when you don't appreciate them. As for real world applications, there is no doubt that QM has guided us to where we are now in many significant avenues of the modern world. The affects of QM in our daily life is a big topic in it's own right, but fortunately there's much useful information out there.

This subject is much too involved and amazing to delve into on a thread about time. I suggest that for anyone interested, it would do them very well to really dig into it, at least the basics. Again, I personally find no other observable things in our world more fascinating than those of the studies of quantum mechanics.

Probably the most amazing observations for me, other than those of my children, are the observations of "Spooky Action at a Distance" and the "Double Slit Experiment" to name a few. When you can see first hand that the laws of nature react directly in relation to simply how you observe them, that really says something about the ultimate significance of your consciousness within the world. And really, doesn't it mean anything to you to know that what you are about to do has already been established? Seriously, how is that not amazing!

Everyone finds different things interesting to them and I guess we will have to leave it at that. Now where's my flux capacitor!

 

[asdalton]

When you can see first hand that the laws of nature react directly in relation to simply how you observe them, that really says something about the ultimate significance of your consciousness within the world. And really, doesn't it mean anything to you to know that what you are about to do has already been established? Seriously, how is that not amazing!

QM has nothing to say about consciousness, only how measured values emerge from a particular experimental setup.

The popularized notions of QM are among the worst misuses of science in our culture, perhaps second only to misuses of Darwin's theory of evolution.

 

[Apollo Cree]

The "God" reference is in terms of the concept that there is an underlying "true" state with infinite precision and determination. The concept is that humans can't observe the "God" state, but God can see it.

Quantum mechanics says there is no such "God" state.

I'm not saying the quantum mechanics theory is absolutely correct, I'm saying that's what the theory is.

Quantum mechanics doesn't say there is no God. Nor does it say that we aren't predestined for things to happen a certain way. It just says that the laws of physics don't require that everything is predetermined.

 

[thelightdude]

"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once."

Albert Einstein

 

[Chauncey Gardner]

Very good read.

To be honest I have thought of time spreading in all directions since I was a kid.

Backwards & forwards linear limitations just do not fit my personal concept of time .

Too bad we are limited as man to experience all aspects of the theory, but it was well laid out conceptually.

 

[angelofwar]

Time is a measurement made up by humans...if atoms smashed together faster, our measurement of time would be the same, relativley speaking. We created feet and meters, just like we created minutes and seconds...there is no time, only the relativity of the universe by atoms co-existing and balancing each other out, just as mother nature does...we move faster but time stays the same...

The ice age would have lasted forever if mother nature (and the atoms) weren't naturally inclined towrds balance...much like water molecules atrrating to each other and creating a smooth surface, and when interupted, they try to continously re-create that smooth surface...

Nor do I believe in time travel, even though I have read Einsteins theory...atoms (from which our DNA is created, I might add) can't be in spot "A" and spot "B" at the same time...thats all there is too it...

Great thread BTW, OP!

 

[Patriot]

With all due respect, quantum mechanics is definitely not bad science. Being consistent with and in combination with the other accepted studies, including relativity, it is a major piece of the puzzle that forms modern scientific understanding of the universe. Quantum mechanics is definitely about sub-atomic particle behavior as well, in the most fundamental regard I might add.

Maybe I didn't articulate that correctly, since I didn't intend to convey that QM was bad science. When I said, "Speculation can be part of science but full acceptance of an notion based off of horribly incomplete data is bad science." I meant to convey that QM theory is not the "accepted" model for the ignition of the universe and rightly so. It would be bad science if it was the accepted model since we know so little about anything. Rather than accepted, it should and is being kept in it's proper place as a scientific intangible possibility, weighed and balanced with what we know based on evidence.

I get the impression that you feel that QM is not a real world study, as you've said that it has little practical use without being testable/verifiable/repeatable etc. To me, the testable/verifiable/repeatable real world observations of QM are absolutely the most amazing observations we could possibly make and I really feel that you are missing out on a lot when you don't appreciate them. As for real world applications, there is no doubt that QM has guided us to where we are now in many significant avenues of the modern world. The affects of QM in our daily life is a big topic in it's own right, but fortunately there's much useful information out there.

But I do understand that QM is real world study. It's the application that I take issue with when we start associating it with the multiverse, megaverse, gigaverse...pick your level of infinite regression, without hesitation, as if science fully comprehends what they're mentally manipulating. Wisely, the majority of scientific disciplines don't jump in with both feet and make dogmatic assertions about what they don't fully understand, including the acceptance a universe, spawned from multiverse via QM. We simply don't know and may never, given the physical limitations in space and time.

 

[angelofwar]

Well, I think the term "Can't see the forest for the trees" applies here...you read too much into to something, when the answer is staring ya right in the face. Somethnigs are a science (the human brain, eco-systems, etc.), but time is just what it is. If the rotation of the earth sped up, we'd adjust our measmuremnt of time to match it, so time can be summed up as just that. Until another intelligent life form is found, our measurement of time is what it is...we (humans) make the rules until proven otherwise.

 

[StarHalo]

"She was a fast machine / she kept her motor clean / she was the best damn woman that I ev-er seen"

Albert Einstein