Surefire - CEO

[darkzero]

Correct. I never said it was broken. I lent it to a friend who dropped it and it got cosmetically damaged.

My other 2 lights have been dropped too and not suffered as much damage and also run perfectly. And I can get replacement parts without problem.

I have simply learnt to assess the product I am buying. And I have chosen not to use surefire again.

Are you really serious? You have choosen not to use a brand of flashlight because you can not replace a major component of the light that was cosmetically damaged on the users end?

Surefire offers a pretty good amount of replacement parts for their line of lights. What other quality flashlight companies can you name that does the same & offers more?

 

[looman]

Are you really serious? You have choosen not to use a brand of flashlight because you can not replace a major component of the light that was cosmetically damaged on the users end?

Surefire offers a pretty good amount of replacement parts for their line of lights. What other quality flashlight companies can you name that does the same & offers more?

I have very few products in my possession that cannot be sorted for spares by the manufacturer.

Are you really serious that if you cosmetically damaged your TV or your car door, you would not get it fixed.

Are you serious that you will let Surefire dictate to you what they will sell you as a replacement component.

Are you serious that they will happily sell you a replacement bezel for a much cheaper model and wont support you (in terms of spares) for what was their flagship LED unit

Are you serious that you will allow SF to dictate to you when they may or may not bother to respond to communications or when they may or may not decide to send you a spare part at all.

Are you serious about receiving seriously degraded service if you are outside of the good ol US of A

Are you serious that you would pay ABSOLUTE top dollar and not expect some sort of responsive customer service akin to a beligerant British rail ticket office clerk who cant be bothered to scratch his own scrotum.

Have you never decided not to by a particular make or model of something because of your experience as a buyer either through poor workmanship or (in this case) poor CS?

You bet I am serious. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Surefire are good.........but they aint the holy grail bud.

And take a look at the other kit out there. Some of it is getting really good too and outperforms SF (in terms of output and range and run times) and is better value too.

Suggest you look again at the market place - there are 62 other manufacturers out there - not all of which are crap.

Am I serious..............................have you not read my posts

 

[racerford]

I can appreciate your response to the poor customer service you have received. They should have responded quickly, and if they do not sell the bezel individually, they should have said so up front. They may have a good reason, such as the bezel, glass and head are sealed together to ensure the water/dust/mud/chocolate/whatever resistance of the head. The response may not have been what you wanted but it would have been fast, clear, and concise. It shows they care about you as a customer, but have made an engineering/business decision on the manufacturing of the light.

I had a Lotus Elise, if you got a short crack in the front or rear clamshell (there is not replacable bumper) the repair procedure is replace of the clam to the tune of about $10K on a $40k car! They made engineering decisions that resulted in that kind of repair cost for a VERY minor bumper dinger incident. It resulted from a desire to enhance performance through lightness.

On the customer service side, we have changed cell phone service providers almost everytime my wife has called in to customer service with a problem. She has gotten so infuriated with their lack of service that we change within a few days. The cost to change is merely an emphasizing point to them that we dislike the their customer service so bad we are willing to pay to fire them. We vote with our wallet.

So good for you to be willing to absorb a cost, and rid yourself of the offending companies products to stand on principle, that you deserve good customer service, especially when you thought you paid a premium to get it.

We should also post kudos when we receive great service, as those companies deserve to be recognized.

 

[RyanA]

I have very few products in my possession that cannot be sorted for spares by the manufacturer.

Are you really serious that if you cosmetically damaged your TV or your car door, you would not get it fixed.

Are you serious that you will let Surefire dictate to you what they will sell you as a replacement component.

Are you serious that they will happily sell you a replacement bezel for a much cheaper model and wont support you (in terms of spares) for what was their flagship LED unit

Are you serious that you will allow SF to dictate to you when they may or may not bother to respond to communications or when they may or may not decide to send you a spare part at all.

Are you serious about receiving seriously degraded service if you are outside of the good ol US of A

Are you serious that you would pay ABSOLUTE top dollar and not expect some sort of responsive customer service akin to a beligerant British rail ticket office clerk who cant be bothered to scratch his own scrotum.

Have you never decided not to by a particular make or model of something because of your experience as a buyer either through poor workmanship or (in this case) poor CS?

You bet I am serious. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Surefire are good.........but they aint the holy grail bud.

And take a look at the other kit out there. Some of it is getting really good too and outperforms SF (in terms of output and range and run times) and is better value too.

Suggest you look again at the market place - there are 62 other manufacturers out there - not all of which are crap.

Am I serious..............................have you not read my posts

No one builds modular anymore. Theres no money in it. If you took a modern ford and a modern chevy I'm sure even an experienced mechanic would find it nearly impossible to find a single part they have in common. There are even proprietary fasteners, all so that in order to have a machine worked on the owner must take it to a ford or chevy certified dealer. Modular is dying, if you can find anything that's still built modular get it before its gone.
Also most TV manufacturers of Auto producers do not keep an inventory of old parts that are no longer produced solely for customer repairs. They want you buying new. A lot of dealerships wont work on cars more than four years old. This is the case at the GM dealership where my brother works. If you've got a 93 Ranger or some Daewoo TV and a part goes; if you can't find it in a junkyard then you're SOL.
It is absurd to demand this type of service from most manufacturers. What are the odds that toyota is going to stock a part for an 85 celica?
This is a courtesy that Surfire provides. It is likely one of the factors in the high cost of their lights.
If you're not happy with it that's OK.
But in my opinion we are lucky to have it at all. If the time comes where Surefire needs to trim the fat, this service, unfortunately seems the most likely target.

 

[looman]

No one builds modular anymore. Theres no money in it. If you took a modern ford and a modern chevy I'm sure even an experienced mechanic would find it nearly impossible to find a single part they have in common. There are even proprietary fasteners, all so that in order to have a machine worked on the owner must take it to a ford or chevy certified dealer. Modular is dying, if you can find anything that's still built modular get it before its gone.
Also most TV manufacturers of Auto producers do not keep an inventory of old parts that are no longer produced solely for customer repairs. They want you buying new. A lot of dealerships wont work on cars more than four years old. This is the case at the GM dealership where my brother works. If you've got a 93 Ranger or some Daewoo TV and a part goes; if you can't find it in a junkyard then you're SOL.
It is absurd to demand this type of service from most manufacturers. What are the odds that toyota is going to stock a part for an 85 celica?
This is a courtesy that Surfire provides. It is likely one of the factors in the high cost of their lights.
If you're not happy with it that's OK.
But in my opinion we are lucky to have it at all. If the time comes where Surefire needs to trim the fat, this service, unfortunately seems the most likely target.

Then I suggest you should expect some trimming soon then.

 

[WASF]

Come on People, as Sigmund said: "Sometimes a flashlight is just a cigar"
WASF

 

[looman]

Come on People, as Sigmund said: "Sometimes a flashlight is just a cigar"
WASF

Yeah - your probably right on that LOL.

Though I dont think it was Sigmund, I think it was lewinski !!!!!

 

[WASF]

Yeah - your probably right on that LOL.

Though I dont think it was Sigmund, I think it was lewinski !!!!!

:twothumbs

 

[RyanA]

I think they'll be Ok for now. There still seems to be a lot of demand for their products. If you ever get a chance ask a US law enforcement officer what they think about their 6p.
I think you're being a bit unreasonable.
Maybe you're a little angry with yourself for letting your buddy borrow the light. I know I'd be kicking myself.

 

[looman]

I think they'll be Ok for now. There still seems to be a lot of demand for their products. If you ever get a chance ask a US law enforcement officer what they think about their 6p.
I think you're being a bit unreasonable.
Maybe you're a little angry with yourself for letting your buddy borrow the light. I know I'd be kicking myself.

Well reasonableness is a personal perspective and I am doing what I want. I am not forcing others to do the same - I simply speak my mind. This is a premium and expensive unit (especially when it launched) and the bezel clearly does come off as I have been offerd another models bezel which fits.

A flashlight to me is a tool as are my rifles. They are purchased to do a job and I dont buy kit just coz it looks cool. It goes out to do work. I dont spend hundreds of pounds on fancy stocks because they are going to get contact. I tried it once and the stock was so soft it marked every time so it went as not practical.

My real beef is with the attitude of the SF cs team - some of whom are really quick and others who are not or have the wrong attitude towards the people who put food on their table.

I am simply voting with my feet.

As for loaning the kit - I have no problem with this whatsoever. He is a good mate and I know it was not done deliberatley and it was purchased as a tool not a precious possession to put into a collection cabinet.

However, it would have been nice to have replaced the bezel easily. Instead it was a drama and I dont tolerate foolish or lax practice.

My perspective is clearly shared by many and disputed by others.

Would I loan him anything else - of course I would as he would me. Freeindship is worth a bit more than a Surefire U2 with a chipped bezel.

 

[Niconical]

I know there has been lots of discussion both ways, but does it not just break down to something more simple? You have a product, you damaged part of that product, you asked the manufacturer thousands of miles away if you could buy just that part rather than a whole new product, they said no.

Bad for you and your bezel, but I don't think Surefire have done anything "wrong" as such, they just don't sell replacement bezels. They do however warranty that bezel for life if it is faulty in any way, that in itself puts them well above many companies in terms of support.

It seems to have been a long, drawn out and negative experience for you, hence your annoyance, but I can't help feeling it would have been easier all round if you just asked right from the start "Can I buy just a bezel? No? OK fair enough, bye".

It's not their fault you broke it, and the circumstances that lead to the damage and how much you want a new bezel doesn't change the fact that they don't sell bezels.

Nothing critical meant or implied, I'm just hoping that stepping back and looking at it all again might help you to see it from the point of view of Surefire. They do a lot and offer a lot, they just don't offer the thing you wanted.

 

[looman]

I know there has been lots of discussion both ways, but does it not just break down to something more simple? You have a product, you damaged part of that product, you asked the manufacturer thousands of miles away if you could buy just that part rather than a whole new product, they said no.

Bad for you and your bezel, but I don't think Surefire have done anything "wrong" as such, they just don't sell replacement bezels. They do however warranty that bezel for life if it is faulty in any way, that in itself puts them well above many companies in terms of support.

It seems to have been a long, drawn out and negative experience for you, hence your annoyance, but I can't help feeling it would have been easier all round if you just asked right from the start "Can I buy just a bezel? No? OK fair enough, bye".

It's not their fault you broke it, and the circumstances that lead to the damage and how much you want a new bezel doesn't change the fact that they don't sell bezels.

Nothing critical meant or implied, I'm just hoping that stepping back and looking at it all again might help you to see it from the point of view of Surefire. They do a lot and offer a lot, they just don't offer the thing you wanted.

I didnt damage it - I lent it but i consider that to be irrelevant.

That is exactly what I asked SF from day one - can I have a replacement bezel. I didnt ask for a freebie or claim it as a warranty issue. They said they didnt understand what I meant !!! Even when I made it even clearer. They didnt understand a simple desire to replace a damaged component even though functionality was not impared.

They do sell bezels. Other bezels also fit the U2 (apparently). they dont sell bezels for one of hteir high end expensive units !!! Why not when they do for others. They chose to make it a certain way then dont support one of the two ends where damage is likely.

If I had deliberately damaged the glass, and sent it back, no doubt they would have replaced the glass, bezel hgead FOC.....but that would have been dishonest.

They offer good kit. It aint perfect and they have limitations - some of which are self inflicted. They do have a high opinion of themselves as I see it and I was less than impressed that they could not grasp a very simple request and then got just plain rude.

I will say it one more time. This is a personal decision on my part. I did not appreciate the poop response I got. Period. I choose not to use surefire again. period.

You use them. I have no problem with that whatsoever, It is my money and I will choose whom I spend it on and why.

My only mistake was jumping in the deep end and buying a light that was not really fit for the use. However, it taught me a lot and I dont consider it a wasted experience.

It has taught me that SF has a long way to go before the CEO realises they have CS issues so when he's finished drinking his coffee...........................

I think we shall have to agree to disagree on the SF cs issue. You seem to be happy with waiting weeks/months to get a response. I dont and am not afraid to tell them to stick it where the LED dont shine.

Now this is my last post on the subject.

Thanks.

Looman

 

[Daark]

Looman: I have informed the superior at SureFire about this thread. I hope they will give you a answer here on this forum.

Hope i don't have made "DM-51" angry again because of this? Or is it maybe high time to get me banned now again. (Sorry!)

 

[marinemaster]

Other forums charge $5 a month to be able to post. A lot of topics on this forum have a lot of senseless topics. Wasted bandwidth and space. Is just a flashlight after all . People post a lot of topics completely senseless just because is free. I bet that if there would be a price for posting we would see more mature topics.

 

[Size15's]

Hope i don't have made "DM-51" angry again because of this? Or is it maybe high time to get me banned now again. (Sorry!)

Open forum is not the appropriate place to keep on bring up this topic. We CPF staff are able to have fun without following you around the forums looking for reasons to ban you.

 

[RyanA]

Well reasonableness is a personal perspective and I am doing what I want. I am not forcing others to do the same - I simply speak my mind. This is a premium and expensive unit (especially when it launched) and the bezel clearly does come off as I have been offerd another models bezel which fits.

A flashlight to me is a tool as are my rifles. They are purchased to do a job and I dont buy kit just coz it looks cool. It goes out to do work. I dont spend hundreds of pounds on fancy stocks because they are going to get contact. I tried it once and the stock was so soft it marked every time so it went as not practical.

My real beef is with the attitude of the SF cs team - some of whom are really quick and others who are not or have the wrong attitude towards the people who put food on their table.

I am simply voting with my feet.

As for loaning the kit - I have no problem with this whatsoever. He is a good mate and I know it was not done deliberatley and it was purchased as a tool not a precious possession to put into a collection cabinet.

However, it would have been nice to have replaced the bezel easily. Instead it was a drama and I dont tolerate foolish or lax practice.

My perspective is clearly shared by many and disputed by others.

Would I loan him anything else - of course I would as he would me. Freeindship is worth a bit more than a Surefire U2 with a chipped bezel.

Tolerance isn't an issue when you aren't the one holding the cards.
I think maybe some of your anger about this may be misdirected.
After all you seem the type who shops a product thoroughly before buying. Is there anything about the Surefire site that leads a person to believe they can buy an extra bezel? Theres no sales structure for it, nothing even to suggest it. The entire head assembly is glued together, so buying a new head would not far off the cost of buying a whole new light As far as warranty repairs we've all dealt with warranty issues enough to know that no company warrants cosmetic repairs. This couldn't have been much of a shock. As far as attitudes go its usually like programming. Input usually equals output. GIGO. People can pick up on even slight variations in tonality, whether they realize it or not. These perceptions often inadvertently affect attitudes, and so on and so forth, to infinity and beyond...:duh2: Judging from your expectations you may have spoiled the pot, whether you meant to or not.

 

[looman]

Looman: I have informed the superior at SureFire about this thread. I hope they will give you a answer here on this forum.

Hope i don't have made "DM-51" angry again because of this? Or is it maybe high time to get me banned now again. (Sorry!)

Hmmm......you clearly have other issues yourself but re SF, I have no such expectation of being contacted to be honest.

I doubt they will listen anyway.

Would be nice to be prooved wrong but I doubt it.

 

[HKJ]

I doubt they will listen anyway.

Am i right in assuming that most of your problem is a vague answer from Surefire, if they, up front, had told your: Sorry about your scratch, we do not stock spare parts for this light, but you can get a new head for $xxx, please send a order to us/our dealer, then your would have been satisfied?

 

[RainerWahnsinn]

If I received CS like that, I would react like looman.

Saying that, I own Kroma, L1, E1B, E2DL and I already paid my UA2 Optimus and like their Products. Untill today I had no reason to test their CS.

 

[greenLED]

Me tinks_

unreasonable expectations + no e-mail support from manufacturer =
:scowl:oo::thumbsdow:thumbsdow :ironic: :shakehead