Anything out ther brighter at a distance than our flashlight?

[LukeA]

^I agree. This forum has a higher-than-normal incidence of cerebral technical threads that maintain good critical thinking and don't devolve into ad hominem flaming.

 

[Gene43]

What He Said!!! :twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs

 

[get-lit]

I'm not sure what is more amazing, this new and novel concept, or how strangely it was introduced to us. Put those both together and it's one hell of a wild ride.

edit- Too bad this could never apply to short arc HID lights for search lights. The light source is in the middle of gas which can't reflect light from the collar to the aperture, and the cathode does not have a surface than could ever have consistent surface angles anywhere near the center of intensity to direct the light from the collar to the aperture :mecry:

 

[TorchBoy]

I'm not sure what is more amazing, this new and novel concept, or how strangely it was introduced to us.

A clear explanation straight off certainly would have been nice, but I'd say the concept isn't really so novel. HIR incandescent bulbs use a similar basic principle; infrared light is reflected inward to make the filament hotter and therefore more luminous, and more light for the same power means more efficient. The difference is that HIR bulbs really are more efficient, not just more throwy. (If anyone wants to use that idea - a thin-film coated lens dome for example - to reflect just blue light back in to an LED to possibly make it really more efficient, be my guest.)

 

[saabluster]

edit- Too bad this could never apply to short arc HID lights for search lights.

I have been announcing the imminent downfall of HID lights by LEDs for some time. They laugh and laugh but the end is nearer than they think.

I'd say the concept isn't really so novel.

Hmm... that's a hard one. On the one hand the idea is absurdly simple and obvious. On the other hand LEDs have been around for quite some time and it hasn't been thought of before. (that we know of)

 

[kramer5150]

interesting!! great thread!

 

[kramer5150]

I have been announcing the imminent downfall of HID lights by LEDs for some time. They laugh and laugh but the end is nearer than they think.

I'm a fan of HIDs... but I agree with you, and can forsee such a time in the future as well.

 

[Bullzeyebill]

I'm a fan of HIDs... but I agree with you, and can forsee such a time in the future as well.

Me, I'm enjoying the present, and HID's and Incan's are just fine with me.

Bill

 

[saabluster]

Me, I'm enjoying the present, and HID's and Incan's are just fine with me.

Bill

OK I probably should not have made comment on the HIDs.Sorry. Sufficed to say your future in my now though.(wink wink) Before we go way off on tangents lets leave it at that. We can leave the "vs" conversations elsewhere.

 

[ama230]

Man I give kudos to this guy for keeping his cool early on because you guys were quite harsh and showing no or little remorse. lovecpf What happened to the welcome, so and so. Where's the love?lovecpf.

Anyways from the photovoltaic's aspect of this(PV panels and LEDs are very similar but different processing(Photons In/Photons Out) and the help of Albert Einstein I will hopefully explain this a little better. As the law of conservation states, there is no extra energy being created here its just being transferred and thus projected in a more useful way(efficiency).

Then for the photons being slapped around here:whoopin:, when you concentrate a source of photons when striking a PV panel you increase the efficiency and thus more work is being provided. This is then concerning diffusion, diffraction and reflection and when at least two of these are kept within a limit you will have almost 2-3x better results than before, and it almost seems like you are creating energy but you simply can not. Electricity, water and air all have the same general characteristics if you want to picture what is going on here. If you can relate to this crazy smart guy, til the end of days, has this theory of relativity that clearly states what is going on here. Then from what this kind gentleman describes still proves valid. Whether it be channeling electrons, protons, voltrons(just a joke), photons when directing these in a manner that applies to modern day physics(and undiscovered physics, as we have yet to find out) it has proven to be successful.

Also I would like to see a new technology take off as leds are still an infant technology and deserve their spotlight. This is just like the new electric bike that has twice the torque of a ducati race bike and is lighter. These things are just around the corner and I am psyched as well as this led that will beat incandescent technologies like HID, flourecent, etc...(I am just relating the glass and vacuum technologies and I know how they are different but are ancient but still are good) Some use a filament and some use a charged gas and some plasmatic.



Please keep these minds flexible as the "world is flat" comments are getting old and whats the fun in believing so. No one is saying your wrong but please give some slack as this guy has some stuff to back up his claims.

Also I don't think you are seeing the main point is that the big wigs on here are being asked politely if they will first answer a question and two give their opinion. Also there is a little of mis-communication going on here as you guys have your lingo on here and some have to maybe catch up(me included):duh2:. This guy is not showing off but rather consulting with experts to validate his findings which I would consider as a huge compliment. Also, just like the few gifted, are bad at explaining what they are thinking so give them some time and both parties can learn.

If it hasn't been mentioned :welcome:Enginyr.

 

[TorchBoy]

Hmm... that's a hard one. On the one hand the idea is absurdly simple and obvious. On the other hand LEDs have been around for quite some time and it hasn't been thought of before. (that we know of)

I should make clear that I draw a distinction between the concept and the implementation of it, especially applied to the quite different light source.

 

[saabluster]

Man I give kudos to this guy for keeping his cool early on because you guys were quite harsh and showing no or little remorse.

Yes he does set a good example of how to comport oneself when challenged doesn't he? The fact remains that if you come to this site with "cutting edge tech" you better know what you are talking about and you had better be prepared to explain.
People were harsh because the claims that were made were unsubstantiated and frankly impossible. That deserved some degree of criticism although some comments got out of hand.

Anyway I think we are all on the same page now so we can get on with things.

 

[Bright+]

Our main patent is the "DPR" Dual Parabolic Reflector. We put two parabolic 1/2's together and it will yield double the lifetime of arcing bulbs.

When a typical arc burns the electrode away it reduces output.

http://spie.org/x8812.xml?ArticleID=x8812

Why is the lamp lumen depreciation perfectly linear when its paired with your "technology" but follows the traditional exponential decay for the earlier parts of life with "traditional technology" reflectors

 

[Machete God]

Thank you so much for doing that for me. I've never had much success making gifs. That turned out perfect.:thumbsup:

Thank you for your kind words, and you're welcome, but the pleasure was mine I'm new to flashlights, and it was nice to be able to contribute in some way to a thread about cutting edge flashlight tech!

Also, +1 to the post below:

Ah, this thread has been awesome.

...

What is gratifying to see on cpf is the level of knowledge and discovery that is shared here, along with the standard level of scepticism.
Look at other forums that you may be on and think about what you can see in this one. This thread has all the traits of a good teledrama.

Event, Surprise, disbelief, support, counter claim, calculations, negotiation, peer review, support, argument, explanation ( close male bonding through calculation ) turning point for one of the protagonists and a successful conclusion which sees potential for the future.

Everyone seems genuinely happy and have learned stuff.

...

Well done, gentlemen.

 

[get-lit]

I have been announcing the imminent downfall of HID lights by LEDs for some time. They laugh and laugh but the end is nearer than they think.

That's pretty enthusiastic. I'm quite confident that LED will not exceed short arc HID throw in my lifetime, unless there becomes a new magical compound that can withstand the heat from 200,000+ cd/cm^2 luminace. Once you've reached those values, it becomes more about compounds that can withstand high temperatures and about methods to cool them.

 

[saabluster]

That's pretty enthusiastic. I'm quite confident that LED will not exceed short arc HID throw in my lifetime, unless there becomes a new magical compound that can withstand the heat from 200,000+ cd/cm^2 luminace. Once you've reached those values, it becomes more about compounds that can withstand high temperatures and about methods to cool them.

I don't know how many more years you have left but I'm confident LEDs will be beating short arcs in throw very very soon. Perhaps even as soon as already. Really it all depends on what particular light you are talking about. The maxablaster? Yeah that might take a little longer but it will happen. Keep in mind that LEDs do not need to reach the same luminance levels to have equal or more throw. We just need to be close. Because of the nature of the LED and its radiation pattern it can use an aspheric which is a better way to collimate.

 

[elumen8]

All this technical discussion is fascinating and educational....BUT...Saabluster, I call 'first dibs' on your prototype if you decide to put together a DEFT utilizing the collar in addition to your already proven design. :twothumbs

JB

 

[Mjolnir]

Wow, I can't believe I just read through all 7 pages of that thread! I sure was an interesting read, especially since it seems like this tech actually works.

Saabluster, are you saying that you would use this collar device instead of the pre-collimator that you currently use (assuming you could devise some way for it to work with the smaller domed LEDs)? So instead of using some of the wasted light to make the light source appear larger before the main lens (as the pre-collimator does, if I understand correctly), you would simply have the original light source with more surface brightness?

So you would have a warmer and more intense (albeit smaller) hotspot coming out the front? This seems like a very good development, even if it isn't yet completely compatible with the LEDs that most of our lights currently use.

 

[get-lit]

I don't know how many more years you have left but I'm confident LEDs will be beating short arcs in throw very very soon. Perhaps even as soon as already. Really it all depends on what particular light you are talking about. The maxablaster? Yeah that might take a little longer but it will happen. Keep in mind that LEDs do not need to reach the same luminance levels to have equal or more throw. We just need to be close. Because of the nature of the LED and its radiation pattern it can use an aspheric which is a better way to collimate.

That depends upon which collimation method utilizes more of the light based upon the radiation pattern. Parabolic reflectors can already utilize 85+% of DC short arc light in large search lights. I definitely agree that LEDs may soon overthrow smaller hand-held HID lights. The more powerful that HID lights are, the more efficient and intense the central hot spot. Smaller HID lights don't take advantage of HID's true intensity capability, so LED can easily gain ground there. The problem for LEDs is that as they produce more light, they do not gain luminance, and lately they've been losing luminance while producing more light. But even if there were a way for LED to produce the intensities of the big guys, the emitter surface would need to be comprised of a compound that can withstand that kind of heat. As it stands, there is no such compound, and without it it's not possible without burning itself up. Keep in mind, we're not talking about cooled glass having to be an inch away like for large HID lights, for LED were talking the about glass-melting and metal-welding intensities, brighter than the surface of the sun, having to come directly from the emitter surface itself. So such a compound is needed just as much as an LED technology that could produce that kind of intensity. It would take some real marvels. Anything is possible I guess, and I hope it becomes possible in my lifetime. I want to play with it. Unfortunately as it stands I do not see any possibility.

 

[saabluster]

That depends upon which collimation method utilizes more of the light based upon the radiation pattern. Parabolic reflectors can already utilize 85+% of DC short arc light in large search lights. I definitely agree that LEDs may soon overthrow smaller hand-held HID lights. The more powerful that HID lights are, the more efficient and intense the central hot spot. Smaller HID lights don't take advantage of HID's true intensity capability, so LED can easily gain ground there. The problem for LEDs is that as they produce more light, they do not gain luminance, and lately they've been losing luminance while producing more light. But even if there were a way for LED to produce the intensities of the big guys, the emitter surface would need to be comprised of a compound that can withstand that kind of heat. As it stands, there is no such compound, and without it it's not possible without burning itself up. Keep in mind, we're not talking about cooled glass having to be an inch away like for large HID lights, for LED were talking the about glass-melting and metal-welding intensities, brighter than the surface of the sun, having to come directly from the emitter surface itself. So such a compound is needed just as much as an LED technology that could produce that kind of intensity. It would take some real marvels. Anything is possible I guess, and I hope it becomes possible in my lifetime. I want to play with it. Unfortunately as it stands I do not see any possibility.

I'm not going to continue down this off topic path here in this thread. Sufficed to say the materials do exist and it is not if it is when. You are also missing some very important aspects that will allow this to be possible. See if you can find a thread dealing with this topic and if not make one and we can continue there.