Am I the only one who drives the speed limit?

[alpg88]

I knew there would be someone who couldn't grasp the concept. It has nothing to do with the speed of any one vehicle.

Well your concept is a fallacy the way you presented

 

[alpg88]

That was back in 2017.
The city learned from its error.
Nowadays, such cases aren't getting dismissed.

honestly i have not heard of such cases, even the ones in the article were not argued due to false readings, but the lack of info needed to make it legit.
I have about 6 cams around my house that i pass daily, not once i got a ticket i did not deserve, i got 2 tickets, 3 and 2 years ago, both times i did go well above, the camera that caught me was actually installed between an exit and an entrance of a highway, so you get off the highway still doing 40+ or you get on it, and you speed up to merge, so lot of people wrote complaints, and they moved that camera. So to me, based on my experience, if you drive 25 or 27, you will not get a ticket.
Now what i did learn from those 2 tickets is that it only catches you in 1 spot, it doesn't follow you, the spot where picture was taken is the spot they monitor, so you know where it is , and as long as you drive 25 at that spot, you are fine, before or after it you can go above, everywhere but that spot is a blind zone for that cam.

 

[DRW]

Well your concept is a fallacy the way you presented

No, it's the law in many states. Your post described the hazards. The flow of traffic is an average of what's happening on a specific section of road under a specific set of conditions. It's a representation of what most of the traffic is doing. Now here is the hard part, it depends on how well someone can articulate the moment, while giving testimony in a court of law.

One guy posted he always drives 4 mph under the speed limit. On a nice sunny day, where the speed limit is 55 mph, if all the cars are going 65 mph, until they catch up to the slowpoke. 15 cars all pass the slowpoke, the slowpoke is obstructing traffic by driving almost 15 mph less that everyone else, other vehicles feel they must pass. The passing increases risk to all of vehicles on the road. The slowpoke is the (proximate cause) hazard, and there is a good chance an obstructing traffic offense would result in a conviction.

 

[alpg88]

No, it's the law in many states. Your post described the hazards. The flow of traffic is an average of what's happening on a specific section of road under a specific set of conditions. It's a representation of what most of the traffic is doing. Now here is the hard part, it depends on how well someone can articulate the moment, while giving testimony in a court of law.

One guy posted he always drives 4 mph under the speed limit. On a nice sunny day, where the speed limit is 55 mph, if all the cars are going 65 mph, until they catch up to the slowpoke. 15 cars all pass the slowpoke, the slowpoke is obstructing traffic by driving almost 15 mph less that everyone else, other vehicles feel they must pass. The passing increases risk to all of vehicles on the road. The slowpoke is the (proximate cause) hazard, and there is a good chance an obstructing traffic offense would result in a conviction.

Can you site the law that you are referring to?
If 1 guy going slower then limit, (assuming he not left lane squattering) which is not a crime, i have no idea why you mention a conviction, is creating a danger in your opinion, maybe it is not him who is a real danger.
in real world when a limit is 55 most go 55-65, few do 70-80, and few more go under 55. passing slower cars is a normal driving condition, any driver should be able to do that. Hazards are the ones who can not do it safely. most likely you will have to slow down too, to let faster traffic pass, until you see a safe window. It is normal traffic conditions the way i see it.

 

[DRW]

..which is not a crime...

I would think it's a civil infraction in most cases, not a crime.

Can you site the law that you are referring to?

I found a search tool that works great for this sort of thing.

obstructing traffic - Google Search

 

[alpg88]

I would think it's a civil infraction in most cases, not a crime.



I found a search tool that works great for this sort of thing.

obstructing traffic - Google Search

Lol, cops are not enforcing civil cases especially on the road. cops issue moving violations, which has nothing in common with civil infractions, not even sure where you got such idea.
Obstructing traffic does not apply to slightly slower moving traffic. Seems like you coming up with hypothetical cases, that have little to do with real world.

 

[DRW]

Lol, cops are not enforcing civil cases especially on the road. cops issue moving violations, which has nothing in common with civil infractions, not even sure where you got such idea.
Obstructing traffic does not apply to slightly slower moving traffic. Seems like you coming up with hypothetical cases, that have little to do with real world.

Are you pulling my leg? Most of my adult life I've spent as a LEO or protecting critical infrastructure from terrorist attacks.

Maybe try that google thing again and see what relationship civil infractions have with minor traffic offenses.

I agree that obstructing traffic does not apply to "slightly" slower traffic. When multiple hazards are grouped together, it absolutely does apply. If an LEO can paint the picture with their testimony, there will be a conviction. The real world is different from what you imagine.

 

[alpg88]

Sure, whatever you say

 

[knucklegary]

And here I thought all slow traffic (heavy loads, wide loads, grandmas, etc.) on US interstate highway stays to the right lanes.
So, if someone speeding in slow lane jams up to your rear tailgating, and in effect causes a pile-up.. How in the fricken heck is that the slow drivers fault!?

 

[DRW]

I'm not following your example Gary. Can you put it another way?

Heavy/Wide loads fall into a separate category, typically with extra safety requirements (good weather, daylight, speed, escorts).

 

[knucklegary]

I was just categorizing, all slower traffic stays to right lanes here in CA.. I've seen more than a few jerks passing to the right, at high speeds, nearly causing accidents, while quickly maneuvering to avoid slamming into a semi truck.
Very rarely do I see CHP on those jerks tail..

 

[alpg88]

And here I thought all slow traffic (heavy loads, wide loads, grandmas, etc.) on US interstate highway stays to the right lanes.
So, if someone speeding in slow lane jams up to your rear tailgating, and in effect causes a pile-up.. How in the fricken heck is that the slow drivers fault!?

Rear end are almost always fault of the driver who rear ended another car. i see tons of reports in our body shop, and talk to insurance investigators. Things that drivers say to justify them rear ending someone sometimes are hilarious, but they almost always end up being at fault. exceptions are when someone intentionally pulled up in front of you and slammed their brakes, but you have to prove it, it used to be next to impossible, but now with dashcams, a video can exonerate you. It is not courts or cops who assign fault, it is insurance companies. Actually police reports very often are false, or inaccurate, again with wide spread of dashcams, drivers have a chance to prove it, and have insurance investigator ignore a false report. before it was next to impossible,

If you think CA is crazy, drive on NYC highways, left lane rule does not apply, everyone ignores it even cops, limit here is 50k but some drive 40, others go 80, left lane is actually the slowest one. middle and right lanes are actually faster. everything is backwards here,

 

[knucklegary]

Wish I had a nickle for every time I said "where are the cops when you need one!"

 

[pnwoutdoors]

Situation dependent, for me.

On a handful of roads, it's clear that the "Basic Speed Law" reigns supreme, due to any number of offshoot driveways and side roads, pedestrians, cyclists, mixed-residential and whatnot. Often, usually on the handful of roads in my area that come to my mind, it's lunacy to go any faster than what's posted. Too dang dangerous.

On the highway, though, at least where I am, one would have to be a fool to go anywhere near the posted speed limit in the 55mph zones, as nearly everybody's doing 65+ anyway. Going 55mph is going to force those speed demons to be whipping around folks in order to "get ahead." I often go several miles over the posted limit, in such spots, but not to a point where I'm pushing people along.

On the highway at higher posted speeds, I'll generally go the posted limit, at most a couple miles over, and I'll just be happier to get where I'm going with less drama. The speed demons have plenty of space to route around me and other slow-pokes, and everyone gets what they want.

In slower, residential and similar spots, I'll never go zooming around. Too many threats, risks. Too many unseen potential problems. Plus, it'll end up almost impossible to explain away, if something were to happen. So, better for them and me: going the speed limit in such zones is a no-brainer.

Works for me.

 

[Monocrom]

If you think CA is crazy, drive on NYC highways, left lane rule does not apply, everyone ignores it even cops, limit here is 50k but some drive 40, others go 80, left lane is actually the slowest one. middle and right lanes are actually faster. everything is backwards here.

Absolutely true. Then you have the drivers who'll flash their high-beams when they're behind a slow moving car in the right lane! Yup, with no traffic in the middle or left lanes. Love "geniuses" like those.

 

[Poppy]

What prompted to write this was this one joker in a big ole box truck plastered with a company logo passed me 4 times on the way home today. I'm easing along in the right lane and this guys all up in my rear view mirror. I tapped the brake pedal. Yeah buddy I'm talkin' to you. But kept going the speed limit. He goes whizzing past like a crazy person and commences to weave back and forth between cars on the busy interstate. He disappears off in the distance.

On a wide open highway, when the limit is 55mph, I'll typically do about 7mph over, almost certainly less than 10 over. It seems that most LEOs give that much leaway.

When the limit is 65mph, then I'll most often go no more than 3-5 over.

When in traffic, I generally pick a lane and stay in it. I enjoy pointing out to myself, and the grandkids, when they are in the car with me, that the idiot who is swerving from one lane to the other doesn't get very far ahead, and that it isn't worth all the chances he is taking (of causing a crash) for the minute ahead he will get. Often, we'll pass each other back and forth as one lane moves ahead and then the other.

Years ago, I got pulled over. The officer stated that he got me doing 67 in a 55. I said that I had my cruise control set at 62! I hated admitting to the fact that I was actually speeding anyway. Actually I had it set to 63 or 64. I further complained... "what about that guy? He just passed me?" The LEO just shrugged his shoulders and said... "Well... you're the one I caught."

 

[bykfixer]

The only time I've been pulled over was for not moving over a lane when a police car was on the shoulder the year before covid. The officer was in his car, cars were approaching me at a rapid pace to my left so I felt it safer to stay in the right lane. When the police car was behind me with blue lights I slowed and moved over to let it go by but he stayed behind me. Huh? I was the only person driving the speed limit. Not on the phone, I was wearing my seat belt, wth? So I asked him as my hands were on the steering wheel "why did you pull me?" His answer kinda stunned me "sir you were driving dangerous as you did not move over, are you aware of the move over law?" I said "yes sir, but I thought it safer not to". He says "I disagree, license and registration please". I was pretty angry but didn't let him know. A couple of minutes later he comes back with my stuff, starts reading the citation and says "sign here".

He walks back to his car and while I was reading the paper he handed me he takes off after another car flying past me driving way more dangerous than I was. And of course it was one you have to appear in court for. I called a friend and said "do you know officer so n so?" He says "oh that guy? Man he just looks for reason to pull people over". See working on the highway for a living we encounter state police often who sit in our work zones so we're like a sewing circle. "Oh that guy, yeah he's cool" or "pfft that jerk would give himself a ticket" kinda thing.

I get to court and the place was packed. Every single person in there had been pulled by that police officer. When it was my turn before the judge I considered saying "your honor" and tell my tale about being a safe driver etc but chose to say "no contest sir". I mean who am I to argue with the cop who has a dozen medals pinned to his uniform?" I got sent to driving school. I said "thank you your honor, I need to go back there since it was 1980 last time I went."

I did get to watch one elderly fellow hobble up to the judge with a walker. The judge says "sir, can you explain why you were going 88 in a 60?" He says "well, everybody else was so I was". The judge said "well ordinarily I'd give a speech about if everybody else jumped off a cliff but you sir do not appear to have a lot of time left on earth so I can understand you being in such a hurry to get where you're going, but please do us all a favor and slow down". He reduced the guy's citation to 19 over.

Before the move over law was enacted I used to move over for cops, broken down cars, tow trucks etc. I've been on the shoulder changing a flat and seen state police cars get wiped out in work zones. So that fateful day was just another judgement call like any other day after driving the interstate nearly every week day for nearly 25 years without a single crash or citation. But at driving school I learned the 10/2 position for hands on the steering wheel can result in broken arms in a crash when air bags deploy and that crossing parking spaces in a parking lot can lead to a citation for each space crossed at $25 each.

 

[kerneldrop]

Here's a speeding calculator:

Calculate how much time you save by increasing the speed- calculator, calculate

This calculation will calculate how much time you save (or lose) per hour, by increasing or decreasing the speed of your vehicle.

www.countcalculate.com

 

[bykfixer]

But how much $ more do you spend in fuel? My work truck for example gets 22mpg at 55 and 16mpg at 70mph. That's 3 more gallons in 200 miles or around 40 miles per tank full less.

 

[Poppy]

The only time I've been pulled over was for not moving over a lane when a police car was on the shoulder the year before covid. The officer was in his car, cars were approaching me at a rapid pace to my left so I felt it safer to stay in the right lane. When the police car was behind me with blue lights I slowed and moved over to let it go by but he stayed behind me. Huh? I was the only person driving the speed limit. Not on the phone, I was wearing my seat belt, wth? So I asked him as my hands were on the steering wheel "why did you pull me?" His answer kinda stunned me "sir you were driving dangerous as you did not move over, are you aware of the move over law?" I said "yes sir, but I thought it safer not to". He says "I disagree, license and registration please". I was pretty angry but didn't let him know. A couple of minutes later he comes back with my stuff, starts reading the citation and says "sign here".

He walks back to his car and while I was reading the paper he handed me he takes off after another car flying past me driving way more dangerous than I was. And of course it was one you have to appear in court for. I called a friend and said "do you know officer so n so?" He says "oh that guy? Man he just looks for reason to pull people over". See working on the highway for a living we encounter state police often who sit in our work zones so we're like a sewing circle. "Oh that guy, yeah he's cool" or "pfft that jerk would give himself a ticket" kinda thing.

I get to court and the place was packed. Every single person in there had been pulled by that police officer. When it was my turn before the judge I considered saying "your honor" and tell my tale about being a safe driver etc but chose to say "no contest sir". I mean who am I to argue with the cop who has a dozen medals pinned to his uniform?" I got sent to driving school. I said "thank you your honor, I need to go back there since it was 1980 last time I went."

I did get to watch one elderly fellow hobble up to the judge with a walker. The judge says "sir, can you explain why you were going 88 in a 60?" He says "well, everybody else was so I was". The judge said "well ordinarily I'd give a speech about if everybody else jumped off a cliff but you sir do not appear to have a lot of time left on earth so I can understand you being in such a hurry to get where you're going, but please do us all a favor and slow down". He reduced the guy's citation to 19 over.

Before the move over law was enacted I used to move over for cops, broken down cars, tow trucks etc. I've been on the shoulder changing a flat and seen state police cars get wiped out in work zones. So that fateful day was just another judgement call like any other day after driving the interstate nearly every week day for nearly 25 years without a single crash or citation. But at driving school I learned the 10/2 position for hands on the steering wheel can result in broken arms in a crash when air bags deploy and that crossing parking spaces in a parking lot can lead to a citation for each space crossed at $25 each.

I don't know the law in Virginia, but in Jersey it is move over or slow down. I would plead my case to the judge. That I moved to the extreme left side of my lane, and that I slowed down some, but was concerned about slowing too much because as it was the traffic in the lane to the left of me was already speeding by, impeding my ability to safely move into that lane.

A lawyer friend of mine who is also a Municipal Court Judge, once in conversation about going through a Red light, advised me to explain to the judge, that it was a quick yellow, and that I rolled through the Red because I was concerned that if I suddenly stopped I would get rear ended by the car behind me. I didn't speed up to try to beat the light, but rolled through it.