Bizarre & Horrifying Maine Shooting

[jtr1962]

Probably a stupid question regarding bullets and damage but here goes. It all sounds like a compromise between recoil, bullet mass, exit velocity, and accuracy. A heavier bullet, or a faster one, will result in more damage, all other things being equal. But the downside is greater recoil, less accuracy. Anyway, has anyone ever made bullets with high explosive loaded in the rounds? The idea would be to allow small caliber weapons with short barrels to have more stopping power. If not, why not, besides legal reasons? Inability to reliably keep the HE from exploding while the bullet is still in the barrel (obviously not a good thing)? Just not as effective as it sounds? Other reasons?

Just curious. I'm a complete layperson when it comes to firearms, but this question has been bugging me for years.

 

[alpg88]

Yea, it did, and it did so for all calibers, If the new 380sd hits harder than regular .380, .45sd will hit harder than regular .45.

 

[bigburly912]

Yea, it did, and it did so for all calibers, If the new 380sd hits harder than regular .380, .45sd will hit harder than regular .45.

I don't know if "hit harder" is the proper term but yes. Everything is way more effective or at least can be with the powders and designs we have now.

 

[bigburly912]

Probably a stupid question regarding bullets and damage but here goes. It all sounds like a compromise between recoil, bullet mass, exit velocity, and accuracy. A heavier bullet, or a faster one, will result in more damage, all other things being equal. But the downside is greater recoil, less accuracy. Anyway, has anyone ever made bullets with high explosive loaded in the rounds? The idea would be to allow small caliber weapons with short barrels to have more stopping power. If not, why not, besides legal reasons? Inability to reliably keep the HE from exploding while the bullet is still in the barrel (obviously not a good thing)? Just not as effective as it sounds? Other reasons?

Just curious. I'm a complete layperson when it comes to firearms, but this question has been bugging me for years.

Few companies tried a primer in the tip of the bullet to make a super expanding round. They never really caught on.

Main reasons these never caught on for civilian use is that they didn't work or were just because they are too dangerous.

There are some ordinance rounds of course that are explosive by other means but from human fired weapons they just aren't feasible.

 

[jtr1962]

Few companies tried a primer in the tip of the bullet to make a super expanding round. They never really caught on.

Main reasons these never caught on for civilian use is that they didn't work or were just because they are too dangerous.

There are some ordinance rounds of course that are explosive by other means but from human fired weapons they just aren't feasible.

Thanks. That makes sense.

 

[alpg88]

NOt just companies, people did and probably still do shove primers into hollow points, but it only makes cool effect when hitting steel plate at night, otherwise it is pretty useless,

 

[IMA SOL MAN]

NOt just companies, people did and probably still do shove primers into hollow points, but it only makes cool effect when hitting steel plate at night, otherwise it is pretty useless,

You wouldn't want to use that (a self-primered JHP round) in a self-defense situation. The prosecuting attorney would have you for breakfast. Some places (NJ) you can't even have JHP bullets, they are illegal for possession by civilians, at least last I heard.

If you read the article I linked to, you will see that the ammunition industry has done all kinds of contortions trying to satisfy the desire for more effective self-defense ammunition. We started with the slow and fat bullets (.44, .45), then we went to the lightweight and faster bullets (.357 Magnum), then we went to the Goldielocks bullets (10mm, .40 S&W), then back to the lightweight and fast bullets (.357 SIG). Finally, most everybody went back to the 9mm, as the science/technology of bullet design had made them pretty good, with good magazine capacity, plus they are cheaper. Some folks like other calibers, and they still make 'em for those folks. Lots of options, and options are good. As they say, you pays your money and makes your choice, or something like that. Generally speaking, if you carry it, practice with it, become proficient with it, can hit what you want to, caliber really isn't all that important. Buy and use what you like.

 

[LuxLuthor]

I was part of a ballistic test showing the effectiveness of the newer .380 SD ammo. Ammunition technology has improved tremendously in just the last decade.

That is really surprising, but good to know

 

[IMA SOL MAN]

I was part of a ballistic test showing the effectiveness of the newer .380 SD ammo. Ammunition technology has improved tremendously in just the last decade.

How deep did they penetrate your body? Must not have been very effective, since you are still alive.

 

[bigburly912]

How deep did they penetrate your body? Must not have been very effective, since you are still alive.

I'm pretty fat/big so they opened on impact. 😁
It was actually water barrels and ballistic gel.
This was nothing official except to the local company. It was neat. I'm no ballistician.

 

[raggie33]

how is a 380 compared to a 9mm/?

 

[bigburly912]

how is a 380 compared to a 9mm/?

About the same diameter. 380 is actually 9mm browning and is a little bit larger diameter bullet. Shorter and less powder in the case. 9mm is more powerful.

 

[RWT1405]

You wouldn't want to use that (a self-primered JHP round) in a self-defense situation. The prosecuting attorney would have you for breakfast. Some places (NJ) you can't even have JHP bullets, they are illegal for possession by civilians, at least last I heard.

You are "mostly correct" about NJ ammo laws.

NJ CCW is next on my list, as I obtained my MD CCW earlier this year.

I will include a link worth reading if you're interested about NJ and their craziness.

Now you can carry a gun in NJ… here’s most of what you need to know! – NJ2AS

nj2as.org

 

[orbital]

+

9mm ammo is about half the cost of 10mm or .45
.357SIG is about double the cost of 10mm or .45

Have to factor in operating cost/availability of ammo

We can talk about stopping power endlessly,
but a good 9mm pistol & good 9mm ammo will serve you well & won't break the bank to practice.
Also, piece of mind knowing you can get the ammo

or

reload to taste

 

[alpg88]

Shot placement is the key, however under stress, in unpredictable situation, it is very hard to do, (place that shot in the best location) if not impossible, chances are you will not hit where you aim, if you have time to aim at all, this is where large bullets with lots of energy make the difference. Sure everyone at the range can hit headshots, but on the street it is completely different story. another thing big heavier bullet flying slower has less chances for overpenetration, and hitting a bystander, Probably all SD loads will not come out if you hit a body, but if you miss, and hit an arm, a .45 has less changes to come out than a fast flying 9mm.

 

[bykfixer]

Don't miss.
Nuf said.

 

[IMA SOL MAN]

Be sure of your target, and what is beyond it.

In SD scenarios, adequate penetration is more important than over-penetration. Then there is the fact that ammunition companies are busting their donkeys to make ammo that penetrates adequately without over penetration--the FBI standards. I would never switch from a 9mmP to a .45ACP out of concern of over penetration. Having said that, there is nothing wrong, in my opinion, with a .45ACP as a SD caliber. In fact, some of the largest expanded pistol bullets that I've seen have been from .45ACP. For home defense, I would probably favor a high capacity .45ACP. But for concealed carry, I would favor a 9mm for compactness, and more capacity in a smaller package. But everyone is different. If you don't mind carrying a bigger, heavier gun, and more magazines, and can conceal it well, more power to you, carry the .45ACP. I know people that carry 1911s, and seem to be happy. Whatever makes you happy. Gun and ammo choice is a personal choice (outside of LE and military).

 

[jtr1962]

You are "mostly correct" about NJ ammo laws.

NJ CCW is next on my list, as I obtained my MD CCW earlier this year.

I will include a link worth reading if you're interested about NJ and their craziness.

Now you can carry a gun in NJ… here’s most of what you need to know! – NJ2AS

nj2as.org

Interesting reading. Regarding the clip size limits, I have a good feeling the courts are eventually going to overturn that. It's another feel-good measure that does nothing in the real world.

 

[orbital]

+

Yep, don't miss & hollow point checks alot of boxes
..same weight & velocity, so use the fmj at $12 for practice

Good 115gr or 124gr 9mm hollow point can be found from $18~20 box

 

[Chauncey Gardiner]

I've watched enough police shooting videos to know almost all high-stress civilian SD shootings are going to be of the Spray & Pray variety.

Going to the range once a month is a good start. Taking a SD high-stress shooting class is a great idea. I only wish I could afford the time to take one.

I also believe that many times the display of a firearm is enough to deter criminal intentions.