Bullzeyebill
Flashaholic
If they put a decent barrel on the Mini 14, that would be the ticket for a military weapon. Talk about reliability.
Bill
Bill
AK-47 inventor: U.S. troops in Iraq prefer my rifle to theirs
- Thread starter blaire576
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Rando
Enlightened
I own a Chinese copy of the AK-74, and I spent 10 years in the US military, including a short tour in the sandbox known as Kuwait in the 90's. Of the thousands upon thousands of rounds I've fired from M16s, the only failure or jam I've ever seen was when I was issued a brand new weapon with a tiny crack in the bolt face, which kept the rifle from cycling properly. I've probably gone through a thousand rounds on my AK and never had a misfire. The reliability, from my experience is about the same. The accuracy, however, is a completely different story. I was able to pick off the 300 meter target with regularity with the M16, but I'd give myself about a 20% chance with the AK. That brings about one of my favorite sayings: "Spray and Pray".
guncollector
Enlightened
Rando said:
Rando,
Can you comment on function in "sandy" environment? Did your M16's require much more maintenance? I hear the sand gets into everything.
Rando
Enlightened
Sand does get into everything, but neither myself or anyone I was aware of had any performance problems in the big kitty litter box. However, we were diligent to keep the dust cover closed and a plastic cap over the barrel when possible to help minimize the effects, and brushed them out now and then "just in case".
We were more concerned about keeping our weapons working than doing a torture test to see how much abuse they would take before they failed, know what I mean?
We were more concerned about keeping our weapons working than doing a torture test to see how much abuse they would take before they failed, know what I mean?
cobra-ak
Newly Enlightened
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2005
- Messages
- 197
Can you post the original link so I can print and forward it? thanks
Jumpmaster
Flashlight Enthusiast
cobra-ak said:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...ays+that+U.S.+soldiers+in+Iraq+are+using+his"
Here is a handy tip...whenever I need to locate an original link to an article, I put a portion of it in quotes and then put it in google.
Out pops a bunch of pages with the original article.
Here is one...but there are many to choose from. If you google it, you can pick sites that do not have popups also. The following one does not.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N17237277.htm
JM-99
I saw a program on the History Channel a couple of years ago. The program compared the M-16 / AR-15 family to the AK family of rifles. The AK chambered in 7.62X39 won for brute power. The fired round penetrated concrete blocks and all. However they showed what happended when the weapon was fired using extreme slow motion. That barrel of the AK was flexing like crazy! It looked like it was made of rubber it was flexing so much.
chevrofreak
Flashlight Enthusiast
Wolfen said:
I've heard this before but find it pretty hard to believe, so, do you know where I can see this video?
Forget the 16, it's fast but doesn't hit hard enough. It's too small a round and this once again is becoming evident in Iraq!:thumbsdownerdgineer
Flashlight Enthusiast
Haven't seen the video so this is just a supposition. There's an optical illusion of motion when straight lines oscillating a certain way can look like they're flexing. It's something we used to show each other by waving pencils around. Could it be that the motion of the AK barrel is following such a pattern, giving the illusion of flexing? Expecially given that a scanning imaging system like TV can reinforce the illusion.Wolfen said:
Because I wouldn't be suprised if the AK barrel flexed, but I doubt it would flex enough for you to see by eye. It probably flexes less 20 minutes of arc or a third of a degree.
chevrofreak
Flashlight Enthusiast
nerdgineer said:
Exactly what I was thinking.
Damn my brain for being so logical.
TENMMIKE
Enlightened
christ,......the lack of knowledge on the m- series weapons is staggering, you want a AK ? then pick it, professional armies don't pick it (ak),only armies that cant train their men worth a poop pick that weapon, ( look it up,) its a excellent weapon for troops that are not well trained.but i ll take my m series any day, iv got 5 friends in the sandbox RIGHT NOW 3 inf ,1 engineer and 1 medic no body has said give me a AK yet an i talk to them 2-4 times a week.
chevrofreak
Flashlight Enthusiast
TENMMIKE said:
I hear this all the time, "But I know xxxx and xxxx says yyyy" and it usually turns out that the people making the comments haven't even used their weapons.Saying you'd prefer any "M" series weapon would mean pretty much anything the military uses, from howitzers to handgrenades.
"Professional Armies" uses whatever they're handed, whether it's a good gun or not.
mobile1
Flashlight Enthusiast
chevrofreak said:
In the Swiss Army we were issued the SIG550 (other link)- (here is some test data). In my entire service I haven't ever seen one SIG550 malfunction. Even though I have never tried an M16 or AK47 - I am not really that much into guns - but I think chevrofreak's statement might hold some truth. However I am pretty sure, the SIG550 pretty sure costs more then an M16 and AK47 combined....
Would be fun, to compare the street prices of an M16, AK47 and SIG550 just do add another dimension....
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chimo
Flashlight Enthusiast
Many stoppage problems with the Canadian version of the M16 (the C7) are magazine related. There are plastic and metal mags. With repeated use (range type), the top lips of the mags would deform and cause stoppages. Fresh mags and and a well maintained weapon are a good combo.
The Ak-47 barrel flexing was on "Tales of the Gun" AK-47.
It was not presented as an optical illusion. The commentator says this is why the AK is not as accurate as (other rifles) or something to that effect and then the rifle is fired multiple times in slow motion with the barrel flexing.
Here is a link to the DVD for sale. http://store.aetv.com/html/product/...eCategoryId=&location=&parentcatid=&subcatid=
It was not presented as an optical illusion. The commentator says this is why the AK is not as accurate as (other rifles) or something to that effect and then the rifle is fired multiple times in slow motion with the barrel flexing.
Here is a link to the DVD for sale. http://store.aetv.com/html/product/...eCategoryId=&location=&parentcatid=&subcatid=
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guncollector
Enlightened
Keep in mind the above-mentioned rifles are all products of the military-industrial complex that designed them (mind you I'm going to make some sweeping generalizations):
The AK (Soviet) was designed to be low-tech, cheap to manufacture and easy to operate. It was modelled after the German sturmgewehr's of WWII, therefore it fired an "intermediate cartridge". Perfect for close-in fighting <200 yards (think "human waves), third world conflicts, and poorly-trained mass-conscription armies.
The AR (US) was designed to be lightweight (using aluminum and polymer) and accurate over long distances. It was was an evolution in small arms thinking. It required a higher level of logistical support, maintenance, and training. Cost of manufacture is much higher than an AK.
The FAL (Belgian) was designed as a main battle rifle in the old school thinking; big centerfire cartridge on a strong platform. It is reliable and accurate, but heavy! They did something right, because it was eventually adopted by over 70 countries.
The StG-90 (Swiss) took the best of all the above (the AK piston operation, the AR cartridge, the solid FAL build) , and combined them all--cost be damned. But then, Switzerland, is a relative rich country with a relatively small population.
The AK (Soviet) was designed to be low-tech, cheap to manufacture and easy to operate. It was modelled after the German sturmgewehr's of WWII, therefore it fired an "intermediate cartridge". Perfect for close-in fighting <200 yards (think "human waves), third world conflicts, and poorly-trained mass-conscription armies.
The AR (US) was designed to be lightweight (using aluminum and polymer) and accurate over long distances. It was was an evolution in small arms thinking. It required a higher level of logistical support, maintenance, and training. Cost of manufacture is much higher than an AK.
The FAL (Belgian) was designed as a main battle rifle in the old school thinking; big centerfire cartridge on a strong platform. It is reliable and accurate, but heavy! They did something right, because it was eventually adopted by over 70 countries.
The StG-90 (Swiss) took the best of all the above (the AK piston operation, the AR cartridge, the solid FAL build) , and combined them all--cost be damned. But then, Switzerland, is a relative rich country with a relatively small population.
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Jumpmaster
Flashlight Enthusiast
chimo said:
I put a set of Magpull self-leveling followers and ranger plates on my 30-round mags. Works great! The "Governor's Twenty" here uses them also.
JM-99
bwaites
Flashlight Enthusiast
A nice thread which has evolved from the original title!!
guncollector, if the StG is superior to the AR, how much more does it cost, and why not license it for manufacture? It looks like the Swiss did build quite a few all by themselves, so the tooling should be paid for.
Bill
guncollector, if the StG is superior to the AR, how much more does it cost, and why not license it for manufacture? It looks like the Swiss did build quite a few all by themselves, so the tooling should be paid for.
Bill
guncollector
Enlightened
bwaites said:
The Swiss government's neutrality laws put stringent controls on export of its military equipment, small arms included.
SIG Sauer pistols, for instance, are manufactured in Germany, the U.S., and I'm sure elsewhere under license, and then distributed internationally.
With so many competing designs (already enjoying huge economies of scale) mingled with the highly politicized procurement processes involved in selling to the world's modernized armies; the high-cost/low-production StG-90 simply isn't very "marketable" outside of Switzerland.
For 3rd world armies, surplus AK's are available for $50-100.00. Why bother with expensive Swiss steel?
