An emco for sale. Cheap! Missed again

[gadget_lover]

I just needed to cry a bit.


An Emco Maximat V10P was on craigs list for $450. It is the 10 inch swing with a milling head centered above the bed that was about 4 foot long. It sounded like it had all the things I was hoping to find in a mid sized lathe.

$450 Delivered.

To my door.

And I missed it. Again.

So which EMCO models are the best for a hobbyist? The last EMCO thread died to quick to discuss it.



Daniel

 

[wquiles]

What about the Smithy brand of lathes? Here is one listed in the local craigslist. Does anyone know anything good/bad about this one?

http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/tls/750403764.html

Will

 

[gadget_lover]

There are not a lot of hits when I search for that Smithy model. IT certainly looked nice.




Daniel

 

[Anglepoise]

An Emco Maximat V10P was on craigs list for $450.
$450 Delivered.

Daniel

Don't worry, be happy. That price is way too low. Was probably crap.

 

[Mirage_Man]

Don't worry, be happy. That price is way too low. Was probably crap.

I'll second that. BTW the Emco lathe auction that was linked to in the other thread sells for like $10K is I'm not mistaken.

 

[gadget_lover]

I have to wonder about that. The current economy and tendency to offshore everything has resulted in a lot of local machine shops closing down. I saw a couple where bridgport mills were cheap because they had to clear the rented space by the first of the month.

Even if a $4000 lathe was beat up, how bad could it be to repair? I've seen some products that resurface lathe ways, and would not bearings be the other big wear part?

Obviously I've never had to repair a bad lathe.

Daniel

 

[wquiles]

There are not a lot of hits when I search for that Smithy model. IT certainly looked nice.



Daniel

Per their web site, I could only find the CZ-239, not the BZ-239G the guy is listing. If really new, looks like a nice machine with the extras
http://smithy.com/product_order.php?cid=2&scid=12&pid=6

 

[precisionworks]

Even if a $4000 lathe was beat up, how bad could it be to repair?

Imagine your worst nightmare, times two

Send the bed out for a regrind & lapping - minimum $1000 + half that much more for shipping.

Headstock needs new bearings? Nice machines use ABEC Class 7 bearings, sold only in matched pairs ... depending on size, you might not spend $1000 for two.

If the bed & bearings are bad, chances are pretty good that the change gears are marginal ... $1000 won't even touch a set.

Same with worn out half nuts on the carriage, which have to be hand fitted by someone who has the skill to do that.

You can spend a ton, without breaking a sweat. I've worked in factories where the machines had been beaten to death by many people over a lot of years. You'll save money by not buying something like that, unless you have lots of time on your hands, and don't need the machine to work for a year or so. It isn't my idea of fun.

 

[Mirage_Man]

Imagine your worst nightmare, times two

Send the bed out for a regrind & lapping - minimum $1000 + half that much more for shipping.

Headstock needs new bearings? Nice machines use ABEC Class 7 bearings, sold only in matched pairs ... depending on size, you might not spend $1000 for two.

If the bed & bearings are bad, chances are pretty good that the change gears are marginal ... $1000 won't even touch a set.

Same with worn out half nuts on the carriage, which have to be hand fitted by someone who has the skill to do that.

You can spend a ton, without breaking a sweat. I've worked in factories where the machines had been beaten to death by many people over a lot of years. You'll save money by not buying something like that, unless you have lots of time on your hands, and don't need the machine to work for a year or so. It isn't my idea of fun.

Exactly why I'm buying a brand new machine.

 

[gadget_lover]

Youch. No wonder they go so cheap.



Still want bigger-better-faster

Daniel

 

[precisionworks]

Exactly why I'm buying a brand new machine.

Hard to go wrong that way, especially with a lathe like your new one. There are always good buys on used equipment, but a few of the 'cheap bargains' turn out to be expensive projects. Unless you can see, feel, touch, listen, and run under power, used lathes are iffy. Add to that that most all of the really great American makers closed shop about 20 years ago & parts can be hard to source.

I do envy you, Mirage Man. You'll be making chips within a day of uncrating your machine:thumbsup:

 

[scott.cr]

Send the bed out for a regrind & lapping - minimum $1000 + half that much more for shipping.

I had a job as a QC manager at a job machine shop a few years ago. Out of four lathes, two were in non-operating condition. One of them was an old South Bend that was purchased used and just never got into service, so I took it apart on my spare time. A lot of the repair work we could do in-house, but the bed was worn in some spots. The shop had a regular maintenance guy, so I called him to see if this was something he could fix, and he recommended another guy who calibrated/adjusted granite surface plates, X-Y tables, and of course lathe beds. He came to the shop, looked at it and said he could hand-scrape it for about $1,500 and guaranteed his work. I said okay. It took him four partial days of work!! I watched him from time to time, and found myself continuously less believing that this guy was hand-scraping the ways as flat and smooth as he was. Pure artistry, and a lot less expensive than what South Bend wanted (which was about $4,500 plus like 12 weeks lead time).

 

[precisionworks]

Hand scraping ways is a dying art, more the pity. I've read & read about how to do it, but it is still intimidating. If you ever look at a new (or lightly used) Bridgeport, the hand scraped ways are as nice as can be. I imagine some of the employees have been there 50 years.

 

[wquiles]

I must admit that buying an used lathe is tempting, but also scary given what you guys have posted here. Look at this small oldie Craftsman/Atlas for example: who knows how much work to get running great? What about buying parts for them?:
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/tls/748544004.html

 

[wquiles]

Hand scraping ways is a dying art, more the pity. I've read & read about how to do it, but it is still intimidating. If you ever look at a new (or lightly used) Bridgeport, the hand scraped ways are as nice as can be. I imagine some of the employees have been there 50 years.

Is hand scraping similar to "lapping" the surface flat with some fine cutting compound?

 

[precisionworks]

who knows how much work to get running great? What about buying parts for them?:

The Craftsman/Atlas lathes are very basic, simple, rugged machines. They use flat ways, so it's sometimes hard to do super-fine finish work (single thousandths or half thousandths) that you need for bearing press fits. But they are inexpensive, tons of parts available on eBay & on the Atlas/Craftsman user groups, etc. Hard to go wrong with one for a first lathe, especially for just a few hundred bucks.

Is hand scraping similar to "lapping"

Hand scraping involves using either a human powered scraper (not many of those left), or an electric powered scraper like a Biax:

Using as long a reference flat as you have:

the surface to be scraped is first spotted in with Prussian Blue or Dykem Paste - the shiny surfaces are the high spots. Scrape these, respot, scrape again, respot, ad infinitum

Lapping is sometimes done after scraping, sometimes not. Lapping is a super fine abrasive process used to produce extraordinary surface finishes, down to 1u and below.

 

[PEU]

how do you compensate for temperature on the flat gage? I mean if its too long its shape may deform, or the flat bridge shape is to avoid this?


Pablo

 

[precisionworks]

Pablo,

The way a scraping flat is made is by have two other reference flats ... and they are supposed to stay that way under 'normal' shop conditions. I have a Starrett 48" straight edge, with edge straightness guaranteed to .0002" per foot, and parallelism of .0004" per foot. Starrett never mentions any need for temp compensation ... I would image most reference tools are stress relieved just prior to the final finish grind.

the flat bridge shape is to avoid this?

That's my understanding. A "normal" straight edge (below) will not work.

 

[wquiles]

Here is another oldie, although this one seems in better shape than the other one I poster earlier:
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/tls/760856997.html

Still, I remain generally scared and weary about older lathes

 

[gadget_lover]

Here is another oldie, although this one seems in better shape than the other one I poster earlier:
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/tls/760856997.html

Still, I remain generally scared and weary about older lathes

that one looks pretty nice.

When I find old lathes like that craftsman in My locale, they are generally a uniform brown, missing covers and handles, and advertised as having "Light surface rust, needs TLC". If they look good they are snapped up quick.


Daniel