Rothrandir
Flashaholic
gosh i'm hungree /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Arc FAQ claims
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Endeavour
Flashlight Enthusiast
Someone get this man some Fude. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Catdaddy
Enlightened
FROM ARC WEBSITE:
____________________________________________
"Anyone is welcome to contest these publically posted claims. Innovate instead of litigate."
____________________________________________
Looks like Peter was looking for a fight to me. It is one thing to make claims, as both parties have. It is another thing to challenge others to "contest" the claims, which Peter has done. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif
I have NEVER seen a business website make such an unbusiness-like statement. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif
Seems to be that the unprofessional conduct started before HDS made this post...and that HDS simply had enough confidence to take the challenge (made by ARC) head on. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/xyxgun.gif
PS. I have personally bought many Arc Flashlights and own at least 20+ right now and love the products.
____________________________________________
"Anyone is welcome to contest these publically posted claims. Innovate instead of litigate."
____________________________________________
Looks like Peter was looking for a fight to me. It is one thing to make claims, as both parties have. It is another thing to challenge others to "contest" the claims, which Peter has done. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif
I have NEVER seen a business website make such an unbusiness-like statement. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif
Seems to be that the unprofessional conduct started before HDS made this post...and that HDS simply had enough confidence to take the challenge (made by ARC) head on. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/xyxgun.gif
PS. I have personally bought many Arc Flashlights and own at least 20+ right now and love the products.
Gransee
Flashlight Enthusiast
Catdaddy, I was not looking for a fight. If you quoted the entire line in the FAQ it reads, "Anyone is welcome to contest these publicly posted claims. Innovate instead of litigate." Context or contest?
When companies stop talking to each other, they are more likely to began litigating each other. One of the reasons Arc Flashlight hosts a party for all flashlight manufacturers each year is to encourage dialogue. We have resisted efforts to make that party become commercial and so loose it's open atmosphere.
HDS is certainly welcome to contest any claim that Arc makes. I have yet to say anything to the contrary. What I have spoken against several times is arguments for the sake of arguments. Some have suggested it would have been better if Henry would have given me a call instead of posting it here but that is not how it turned out.
Btw, I added the descriptor "hand held" to FAQ in the interest of clarity.
Peter
When companies stop talking to each other, they are more likely to began litigating each other. One of the reasons Arc Flashlight hosts a party for all flashlight manufacturers each year is to encourage dialogue. We have resisted efforts to make that party become commercial and so loose it's open atmosphere.
HDS is certainly welcome to contest any claim that Arc makes. I have yet to say anything to the contrary. What I have spoken against several times is arguments for the sake of arguments. Some have suggested it would have been better if Henry would have given me a call instead of posting it here but that is not how it turned out.
Btw, I added the descriptor "hand held" to FAQ in the interest of clarity.
Peter
indenial
Enlightened
[ QUOTE ]
Gransee said:
Btw, I added the descriptor "hand held" to FAQ in the interest of clarity.
Peter
[/ QUOTE ]
Now THAT was classy. Perhaps HDS could reciprocate?
Gransee said:
Btw, I added the descriptor "hand held" to FAQ in the interest of clarity.
Peter
[/ QUOTE ]
Now THAT was classy. Perhaps HDS could reciprocate?
Carpe Diem
Flashlight Enthusiast
Peter...
A lot of us on the CPF long for the "milder and gentler" days of the CPF of old. I fully realize that such will never happen, but efforts on the part of all of us should head in that direction.
Henry has, I believe, made his point with this thread. I also suspect Henry has learned a few things from this thread.
I may be a minority of one, but I think it`s now time for you to close this thread...and that it`s now time for all of us to move on.
Ah...for the days of old.
A lot of us on the CPF long for the "milder and gentler" days of the CPF of old. I fully realize that such will never happen, but efforts on the part of all of us should head in that direction.
Henry has, I believe, made his point with this thread. I also suspect Henry has learned a few things from this thread.
I may be a minority of one, but I think it`s now time for you to close this thread...and that it`s now time for all of us to move on.
Ah...for the days of old.
Dave Wright
Enlightened
Indenial,
My understanding is that the Rev1 switch was entirely according to Henry's design & specification. The Rev2 switch had some components changed by Arc after Henry left. The intent was to improve the switch operation, but the result didn't work out as well as hoped.
Now for the speculation. Peter, please step in with corrections as appropriate. I don't have a Rev1 and Rev2 to compare, and haven't read posts on this from Peter. My guess is that Peter heard complaints about Rev1 switching in people's pockets and decided to address the problem by adding a foam washer (to increase switch travel) and changed the snap dome spec to one with greater actuation force. The resulting switch had a mushy feel and much greater activation force than Rev1. On the bright side, they didn't activate accidentally. Arc pulled the foam washer out of returned units, which helps the action a bit, but couldn't replace the snap dome without major rework of each light. You can be sure that subsequent versions from both Arc and HDS will work better.
My repaired Rev2 works well but takes a strong thumb. Folded aluminum foil in the negative battery recess seems to have solved perceived flickering that was actually intermittent battery contact. Here's a suggestion: It would be good for the next version to have a capacitor to buffer imperfect battery connections.
My understanding is that the Rev1 switch was entirely according to Henry's design & specification. The Rev2 switch had some components changed by Arc after Henry left. The intent was to improve the switch operation, but the result didn't work out as well as hoped.
Now for the speculation. Peter, please step in with corrections as appropriate. I don't have a Rev1 and Rev2 to compare, and haven't read posts on this from Peter. My guess is that Peter heard complaints about Rev1 switching in people's pockets and decided to address the problem by adding a foam washer (to increase switch travel) and changed the snap dome spec to one with greater actuation force. The resulting switch had a mushy feel and much greater activation force than Rev1. On the bright side, they didn't activate accidentally. Arc pulled the foam washer out of returned units, which helps the action a bit, but couldn't replace the snap dome without major rework of each light. You can be sure that subsequent versions from both Arc and HDS will work better.
My repaired Rev2 works well but takes a strong thumb. Folded aluminum foil in the negative battery recess seems to have solved perceived flickering that was actually intermittent battery contact. Here's a suggestion: It would be good for the next version to have a capacitor to buffer imperfect battery connections.
Rothrandir
Flashaholic
dave, i'm saying this from (a bad) memory, so it might not be accurate, but i believe that the rev2 was done by henry, who left in the middle of the project, leaving peter hanging.
at least i think i remember hearing that somewhere /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
at least i think i remember hearing that somewhere /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
kitelights
Flashlight Enthusiast
"Schmucks who prettify and get all passive aggressive during conflict have no schmucks."
Makes absolutely no sense at all. You can BE a schmuck, but you can't HAVE a schmuck. A schmuck isn't a body part, genius.
Makes absolutely no sense at all. You can BE a schmuck, but you can't HAVE a schmuck. A schmuck isn't a body part, genius.
metalhed
Enlightened
"Schmucks who prettify and get all passive aggressive during conflict have no schmucks."
I believe it is a play on the word's etymology:
"[Yiddish shmok, *****, fool, probably from Polish smok, serpent, tail.]" -- Dictionary.com
I believe it is a play on the word's etymology:
"[Yiddish shmok, *****, fool, probably from Polish smok, serpent, tail.]" -- Dictionary.com
indenial
Enlightened
[ QUOTE ]
Dave Wright said:
Indenial,
My understanding is that the Rev1 switch was entirely according to Henry's design & specification. The Rev2 switch had some components changed by Arc after Henry left. The intent was to improve the switch operation, but the result didn't work out as well as hoped.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Rothrandir said:
dave, i'm saying this from (a bad) memory, so it might not be accurate, but i believe that the rev2 was done by henry, who left in the middle of the project, leaving peter hanging.
at least i think i remember hearing that somewhere /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif Well, now, that clarifies that! Hmmmm. I wonder why neither one of the two parties will step forward and take responsibility here? It's another point of contention I suppose.
Dave Wright said:
Indenial,
My understanding is that the Rev1 switch was entirely according to Henry's design & specification. The Rev2 switch had some components changed by Arc after Henry left. The intent was to improve the switch operation, but the result didn't work out as well as hoped.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Rothrandir said:
dave, i'm saying this from (a bad) memory, so it might not be accurate, but i believe that the rev2 was done by henry, who left in the middle of the project, leaving peter hanging.
at least i think i remember hearing that somewhere /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif Well, now, that clarifies that! Hmmmm. I wonder why neither one of the two parties will step forward and take responsibility here? It's another point of contention I suppose.
NewBie
*Retired*
Well, I asked a few weeks ago, and got the reply that Henry didn't participate in the Rev.2. I was also told by DallasA that the Rev.2 is Peter's, and no Henry at all.
Care to comment Peter?
Care to comment Peter?
thesurefire
Flashlight Enthusiast
[ QUOTE ]
Gransee said:
Btw, I added the descriptor "hand held" to FAQ in the interest of clarity.
Peter
[/ QUOTE ]
To me that means case closed.
Gransee said:
Btw, I added the descriptor "hand held" to FAQ in the interest of clarity.
Peter
[/ QUOTE ]
To me that means case closed.
Gransee
Flashlight Enthusiast
Sure Newbie, I can comment on that again. The engineering on the Rev2 was done by Henry. This was one of his last projects before leaving us.
The rev1 did have problems with the switch. In fact, it was the number one complaint. I tasked Henry to improve the action of the switch. This change, combined with the knurl changes and sloped lip made up the rev2 design. Henry left after the parts were sent to production. During production, we found out that there were some mistakes on the drawings (I can say this now because he has probably found those mistakes by now). The battery pack was too long among other things. We had quite a few parts that would not fit together correctly and we had to do something. The lights would not work if the drawings were to be followed. Karen, our production manager came up with a fix that involved grinding the battery compartments shorter. We also made various changes on the fly to the tail assembly. This made the light operational. Successive changes have since improved the switch but I am not satisfied yet.
I was hoping to have the switch fixed with the second revision. Talk about a dissapointment.
The third revision has a new switch design being implimented by a new engineering team. I took a more active role in the design of this switch. "If you want something done right..." When the time comes, I can talk more about that revision.
And since we are off topic, I will be closing this thread soon. You all will have a chance to get your say in if you do it soon.
Peter
The rev1 did have problems with the switch. In fact, it was the number one complaint. I tasked Henry to improve the action of the switch. This change, combined with the knurl changes and sloped lip made up the rev2 design. Henry left after the parts were sent to production. During production, we found out that there were some mistakes on the drawings (I can say this now because he has probably found those mistakes by now). The battery pack was too long among other things. We had quite a few parts that would not fit together correctly and we had to do something. The lights would not work if the drawings were to be followed. Karen, our production manager came up with a fix that involved grinding the battery compartments shorter. We also made various changes on the fly to the tail assembly. This made the light operational. Successive changes have since improved the switch but I am not satisfied yet.
I was hoping to have the switch fixed with the second revision. Talk about a dissapointment.
The third revision has a new switch design being implimented by a new engineering team. I took a more active role in the design of this switch. "If you want something done right..." When the time comes, I can talk more about that revision.
And since we are off topic, I will be closing this thread soon. You all will have a chance to get your say in if you do it soon.
Peter
Carpe Diem
Flashlight Enthusiast
Thanks for your post, Bernhard.
And here I thought I was just talking to myself in the wilderness. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
As always, best wishes to you, my friend. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
And here I thought I was just talking to myself in the wilderness. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
As always, best wishes to you, my friend. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
indenial
Enlightened
[ QUOTE ]
Gransee said:
Sure Newbie, I can comment on that again. The engineering on the Rev2 was done by Henry. This was one of his last projects before leaving us.
Peter
[/ QUOTE ]
That clarifies that issue. Thank you for responding Peter. I look forward to the reviews on the new switch. BTW, will the Rev.3 be part of the ARC5 or an improved Arc4+?
Gransee said:
Sure Newbie, I can comment on that again. The engineering on the Rev2 was done by Henry. This was one of his last projects before leaving us.
Peter
[/ QUOTE ]
That clarifies that issue. Thank you for responding Peter. I look forward to the reviews on the new switch. BTW, will the Rev.3 be part of the ARC5 or an improved Arc4+?
Gransee
Flashlight Enthusiast
Both!
Peter
Peter
Dave Wright
Enlightened
Thanks for the follow-up Peter! That connects a number of loose data points from earlier threads.
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