Arc FAQ claims

[djpark]

[ QUOTE ]

The Action Light is a flashlight in every sense - Webster: "a small battery-operated portable electric light."

Henry.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Gransee said:
But if you guys think I should change our claim I will. Instead of, "first single cell, regulated LED flashlight" I could change it to something like, "first single cell, regulated, handheld, LED flashlight", etc. I am fine either way.

[/ QUOTE ]

A lot of people seem to argue by heart feeling. But if we look at the point brought out carefully, we see that the challenge HDS put is not the fact if ARC's claim is correct or not, but rather to the definition of the "flashlight" Peter is having and it is very clearly answered to the point.

To me, the case is closed.

-- dj

 

[Ray_of_Light]

Besides all dictionary issues, I don't EDC an headlamp...
Peter, you can abbreviate "handheld flashlight" as "torch"... it is doubtless true that you held a torch in the hand, and do not affix it to your head...

Anthony

 

[shiftd]

ok, so HDS is the first one to make and sell single cell regulated (and anodized) flashlight. But... SO what?!
i mean, there is no point in bringing that up. I don't think anyone would consider "the first anodized flashlight, regulated, etc" in his purchase decision on some light. I think most people would rather buy flashlight that is "smallest, brightest, most efficient, pretty (aesthetically and functionally)" or even sold by favorite sellers. I was actually considering getting your EDC lights, but your post did not constitute a class act. Why would you stir things up? What would you gain from stating that anyway? From the posts above, it seems to me that a lot more people mad and angry at your post than those that actually loves or encourage such posts.

Like others have said, concentrate on your lights and let them speak of your ability. It just looks like your communication and marketing ability waaaaayy behind peter, so, ain't it gonna be better for you to show the world how good your flashlights are, than how (not good) your personal skill is?

Of course, i am not saying you are a bad guy; by no means. It just seems to me that you are doing thing that is unnecessary and makes you look hostile to people.


again, JMHO

 

[bryguy42]

Attempting to dishonor Gransee through the use of SEMANTICS is very underhanded/childish IMHO.

A "flashlight" is everything Peter said it was... (unless your vocabulary is stuck in the year 1810)

QUOTE: When I think of the term "flashlight" now days, it is more specific than originally and now means a "hand held, self contained, battery operated, small to medium sized light".

We need to concentrate on the PRODUCT, and stop these Ham-fisted attempts at dishonor based on linguistics... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[MichiganMan]

[ QUOTE ]
Spacemarine said:
I can't unerstand why everyone gets so upset about Henrys post. If you read the FAQ, you see that Peter specifically requestet comments like this. His FAQ states: "Anyone is welcome to contest these publically posted claims. Innovate instead of litigate."

You see the word "anyone" ? As I understand it, this includes Henry!

Perhaps it would have been better if Henry wrote an email to Peter instead of posting here in the forum, but I can see no indication that these "publically posted claims" shouldn't be adressed "publically".

Just my thoughts...

[/ QUOTE ]

Peter did address them publicly just a few posts above yours.

As for his solicitation, it is clearly worded in response to Maglite's anti-competitive and bullying litigation (lets see, we could update our 20 year old flashlight design or we could sic a dozen lawyers on this young man and break him financially by suing over the direction of the lettering on his light...)

Personally I think Henry would better spend his time exercising his talent designing lights. I mean come on, he's in the process of getting a company off the ground, designing its flagship product and organizing a manufacturing process and this is what he's doing to compete with ARC?!? Petty sniping about whether a headlamp is a flashlight?!? Wow. Hope I never have to argue a detail of his warranty with this guy.

 

[absoLite]

I think it would be best to let the products (and their availabilty, quality and support from the manufacturer) speak for themselves.

 

[BC0311]

kj, it's an illustration of the question, "which came first, the chicken or the egg?".

Also, I thought of subtitling it, "A Study In Patent Quandary".

Or, "2 Roads To Chicago".

I wanted to show how a modder came up with a flared switch housing and it was posted on CPF several months before HDS's EDC Basic will even be available.

This is CPF, not the patent office.

 

[JohnJ80]

I think we all get the conflict. I can see Henry's point about correcting Peter's claims and that would be fine if this conflict wasn't always just beneath the surface. This whole thing is getting tiresome.

What I have to say is that I am getting tired of Henry's sniping at Arc and I am getting ever more impressed with Peter's patience and response. If I were Henry, I'd be thinking about that long and hard right now (speaking as a business owner myself). I mean, is Henry's purpose to sell his flashlights (if and when they arrive) or is it to cause Peter a problem? If it is the former, this is the wrong way to do it. If it is the later, then that is a pretty sad way to live your life.

Let the products and service do the talking. Lets see Henry's stuff and let the competition begin. Lets see if Henry can get past the ill will he is generating with some of his potential customers and see if he can be successful.

Until then, how 'bout we give this a rest and start focusing on the lights again?

J

 

[xochi]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif to all you geniuses who think posting /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif is any better than the initial post. At least something meaningful was said in the first post. Conflict is reality. The conflict they are engaged in is reality. Schmucks who prettify and get all passive aggressive during conflict have no schmucks.

It's classy as hell to come out and tell the truth in a forum rather than worry that some jerkoffs will question your 'class'. The idea that these guys should just forget all the previous bs and make lights is silly.

Personally, I think all this should have it's own forum and come out in it's entirety or BOTH these companies should quit spamming an enthusiasts board and be required to post ONLY in the manufacturers areas. If manufacturers want user inputs they should either read the forums or host their own boards on their sales sight , not here. Just my not-at-all-humble opinion.

 

[raggie33]

thanks for calling me a genius im glad it showed

 

[Skyline]

Thanks for calling me a genius as well. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Btw, this IS a Manufacturer's forum.

 

[xochi]

Sorry, I guess I misunderstood the concept of the forum as one so that consumers can discuss offerings from certain manufacturers. Is the real situation that Candlepowerforums actually HOSTS the forum FOR the manufacturer, uh you mean it's basically a big commercial. OH, I get it. Then cpf must make a good income from these manufacturer edorsements and when individuals send contributions they aren't really needed. I mean, I quess this makes sense, with Gransee moderator and all.

 

[MichiganMan]

[ QUOTE ]
raggie33 said:
thanks for calling me a genius im glad it showed

[/ QUOTE ]

You did better than I Raggie. He deemed me a "Jerkoff"

I don't think I've seen that particular tactic employed since Junior High. And in the same sentence as his judgement of what is Classy no less.

 

[raggie33]

o dont apologize before ya came i dint know in was a genius as we spek im makeing cards to tell all the news

 

[thesurefire]

Now that we are finished in elementary school, lets move on.

I think the matter at hand is between Henry and Peter. Both have a point and the situation could be argued either way. It will in the end come down to how you define the term "flashlight" being that this word undoubtedly has at least 4 or 5 definitions, either side could win depending on witch one you use.

Therefor I would purpose that Peter and Henry take up this matter in a private setting unless both parties agree to have some kind of debate or something. I believe that the best way to deal with the matter would be for both of them the sit down and come to some mutual agreement. I say case closed here on CPF.

BTW, I would recommend you both read my signature.

I wish both Arc and HDS best of luck in the future. May the man with the best product win.

-David

 

[Radagast]

[ QUOTE ]
absoLite said:
I think it would be best to let the products (and their availabilty, quality and support from the manufacturer) speak for themselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

 

[BC0311]

Gee whiz, I'd never thought something as mild as a /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif would evoke such passionate responses from these fellers.

Things are moving so fast in the flashlight world that it's going to be difficult for anyone to stay on the leading edge for long.

My photos showed how someone else came up with an idea for the flared tailcap housing attached to the Arc4 and built it well before I saw one on the HDS website.

This illustrates that it's becoming more difficult to claim you originated and manufactured an idea first.

We have more and more modders starting to offer production parts and lights. Maybe limited production, but production nonetheless.

So, when I see a light show up on a website saying it will be sold in a few months, and that light is about the same as something I saw photos of and discussion about on CPF months ago, I see irony.

If I post a thread discussing headlamps on the General Flashlight Forum, it will most likely, and rightly, be moved to the appropriate forum.

Britt

 

[Endeavour]

I'm going to be blunt here, and please bear in mind these are my own views:

Henry was in full right to contest Peter, regardless of whether the claim was valid or not (which I will not pass judgment on).

It would have been more tactful to speak to Peter directly, but since I do not know the exact situation and conflict between the two parties, maybe they're not on direct speaking terms - who knows.

Regardless of this, though, the amount of bickering that has ensued between the members of this forum is a bit ridiculous.

There are ways to argue, a sort of unspoken set of 'rules of engagement' that should be followed. Thus far, I don't think anyone has followed them.

Dirty laundry should not be aired publicly in regards to both Arc and HDS, and for the rest of the membership, you all are beginning to engage in what's becoming more and more a heated debate over a trivial matter that really does not concern you, me, or anyone else here.

I think, and this is just my opinion, that this thread should be put to rest and let die. The issue is between HDS and Arc, and I believe the two should take their issues privately.

The rest of the membership joining in and fighting for one side or another only succeeds in alienating people from each other and little more in a conflict that doesn't involve us directly.

All that being said... Die thread. Die. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dedhorse.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/xyxgun.gif

My two pence.

 

[indenial]

I basically agree with Endeavour's post.

On the other hand, inasmuch as what he suggests is unlikely to happen, I think Peter should insert "handheld" into his FAQ claims. It is more accurate and I can't think of a good reason why he shouldn't.

The only question I have, and I've asked it before, who designed the ARC4+Rev2 tailswitch? And I'm not referring to which gentleman owns the legal rights to it.

As a consumer, that answer would help me determine just who it is I will patronize in the future.

 

[Endeavour]

Re: Arc FAQ claims *DELETED*

Post deleted by Endeavour