Best Malkoff drop-in for a CQB weapon light?

[smg]

I regularly run a rifle course with my rifle (FNH FS2000) but I can only run the course under room-lit conditions. I need to mount a light on my rifle for the dark portion of the course and I'd like this setup to be well suited for home-defense as well. At the course, we shoot out to 25 meters max. In my home, I would not encounter any distances beyond 12 meters. A light putting out 200 or more lumens concerns me for home use, since I have some big windows and light walls in my house (glare).

For the ease of future upgrades and overall durability, I think the Surefire 6P is a good choice (am I wrong?). So, I looked in a local gun shop and ended up walking out with a barely used 6P incan for $20 :thumbsup: I'm very happy about that deal!

If I get a drop-in that lasts for 4 hours or more, I don't need to concern myself with rCRs (for the course) and I don't want rechargeables when the gun will be used for self defense. Do I really need the higher output of the M60 or M60F when it will cut back my runtime to 1.5 hours?? I don't think I want anything less than 100 lumens, but I'm open to the opinions of the pros (that means you ). My first thoughts were that the M60LF would be the best for my situation. What would you guys recommend as the best solution??

P.S. If you tell me that I should use a host other than the 6P that I just bought, you need to give me some very convincing reasons.

 

[TMedina]

By all means, keep the 6P.

Given the parameters you've specified, probably a M60F would suit you best - although I've never done weapon-light shooting before, so I can't advise as to which would be more functional; flood or spot.

If you really want to be creative, put a dab of red on the center of the M60F so you get the best of both worlds - a good flood and a red dot center mass.

-Trevor

 

[cfromc]

After comparing several bulbs and LEDs I'm 99% ready to buy some Malkoffs, specifically the M60WF and/or the M60WLF. They are not currently available but I'm hoping Gene has some soon. I've tried the P60 and P61 and they are both good bulbs but I like the higher output and spill of the P61 but it is a battery hog and IMO dims quickly after the first few minutes of its 17-20 minute run-time on two CR123a batteries. The standard (non-warm tint) LEDs are OK but I like the color rendering and detail provided by the new warm tint emitters. I have one 5A Q3 LED and it is close to an incan but less yellow and it does not dim until the batteries are almost dead. For me, this is really the way to go because it gives the advantages of an incan for tint/rendering/depth and the advantages of an LED like long(er) run-time and shock resistance.

I have been trying to determine the correct amount of lumens/spill/throw for in-house defense since joining CPF, as that was a big reason I stumbled onto the site. For me, it seems my ROP-Hi is a little too bright (over 500 toch lumens) but the P60 is too dim (65 lumens). I like my M3 with a MN11 bulb (225 lumens) but it may be slightly too bright in some areas (tight hallways with bright walls) but not bright enough for others (large open areas and long basements). As with most things there is an ideal compromise that should work well in most situations. For me, the M60WF seems like the next logical step for a dedicated weapon-mount light but I won't be using it in very many outside courses. Even if I were going to use it for that, I think it would be a good choice, with a few spare batteries. My next choice would be a M60WLF with nearly the same brightness but 3 times the run-time (~4.5 hours).

Whatever you decide, keep in mind, especially with LEDs, everyone's opinion will be a little different as far as the best color, spill, and output. I've learned that reviews and beamshots, while very helpful, do not equal actually using the light and judging for yourself.

 

[Justin Case]

I've taken a lot of firearms courses, both handgun and carbine, with a significant amount of low light shooting and I doubt that you will use your weaponlight for 1.5 hours of total on-time, much less 4.5 hours. So, I don't see runtime as a big issue. I would suggest bringing spare lighting equipment in any case -- extra batteries, extra lamps, at least one extra flashlight (if it were me, I'd bring at least two extra handhelds), etc.

High lumens is generally not an issue if you know what you are doing in terms of using your light properly.

Flood beams sound good in theory, but they are not necessary for indoor search, especially for slow (deliberate) search when you generally want to clear small slices at a time.

IMO, the choice between the M60 and M60F depends on your preference for a standard optic vs flood optic. You probably can mimic the M60F's flood with an M60 by adding a SureFire FM34 beam diffuser.

 

[txgp17]

I'd vote for the M60LF.

The regular M60F is so powerful, it will completely remove your night vision with just a moment's flash, especially in a house where the walls are painted white. I have M60F in a 9P that I keep there "just in case", so I am speaking from experience. Mine is a backup light in case the X300 doesn't work when I need it.

 

[Sgt. LED]

Large windows?
Worried about glare?

M60WLF

You need the depth perception of the W.
You want the longer runtime of the L, only you can decide if it will be enough light for your purpose - it may not be.
You need to clear rooms ASAP so you need the spread of the F.

I like the idea of the regular M60WL paired with the FM34 but I never liked the extra bulk.

 

[MrGman]

Large windows?
Worried about glare?

M60WLF

You need the depth perception of the W.
You want the longer runtime of the L, only you can decide if it will be enough light for your purpose - it may not be.
You need to clear rooms ASAP so you need the spread of the F.

I like the idea of the regular M60WL paired with the FM34 but I never liked the extra bulk.

+2. Second choice would be the M60WL no flood.

 

[Policetacteam]

I have ran my M4 through numerous low light courses and schools and I would highly suggest the M60. It still offers excellent spill for an average sized room but the throw is where it will truly shine (no pun intended)!!! If the school or course you will shoot has any 50 yard or 100 yard courses you will be good to go with an M60. I think any of the choices listed above are excellent but I still feel the M60 offers a rifle shooter the best of both worlds (spill / flood for CQB work and excellent throw for long range shooting). Hope this helps!

 

[jimmy1970]

I have ran my M4 through numerous low light courses and schools and I would highly suggest the M60. It still offers excellent spill for an average sized room but the throw is where it will truly shine (no pun intended)!!!

That is so true - the M60's spill is almost as bright as the spill on the flood M60's - a pretty unique beam. Most throwers like the DBS I had produced very little spill but a super intense spot. Your eyes adjust to the spot making the spill appear even dimmer!

James...

 

[Solscud007]

I would try this.

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14442

Its cheap might as well get one haha.

 

[MrGman]

I would try this.

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14442

Its cheap might as well get one haha.

I most highly recommend against this recommendation for several reasons.

Lousy beam pattern.

5 modes, so 1 in 5 chance to get the output mode you want when you want it.

Most of these modules flicker in lower modes if you use more than just 2 primary batteries so if you do run RCRs you may see flickering.

Not nearly as reliable as a Malkoff M60 anything, Period.

It is really the opposite of what you said you wanted, which was very good to begin with.

Do not get sucked into the DX side. :thumbsdow

I make no apologies for my position!

 

[Axion]

I would go with either the M30W or the M60W depending on your battery preference. I greatly prefer the warm tint because it's much better for depth perception and color rendering, even at the lower output levels. I'd go for the full power version with the standard 8 degree optic because for any sort of distance I think you'll want it. Something as common as looking down a hallway into a room is the type of situation where I'd want a light with a better spot.

However, since I understand the desire for longer run times and a floodier beam in certain situations I'm planning on getting the surefire flip up diffuser for my 6P as well as the McGizmo two stage tail cap (from the sandwich shoppe). With that tail cap you push down a little for "low" and all the way for full output, twist to lock on functionality is also retained.

 

[TMedina]

MrGman makes excellent points - your weapon light should be KISS friendly.

Of course, I take that position on all my tactical gear, so I may be a little biased.

-Trevor

 

[N/Apower]

I learned the expensive way. Anything but a warm LED is junk on a weapon. JMHO.

WL
WLF

Take your pick

 

[beavo451]

How about a Malkoff P7 if you can get one? I just received one to supplement a M60 + C2 for duty use. Very bright, super floody beam. So far it has helped eliminate some tunnel visioning I get from using the M60 and its relatively small hotspot. The P7 is like a L4 on steroids!

 

[Seijin]

To paraphrase Ken Hackathorn, some people are "absolutely *****" about how many lumens a light can generate. For a CQB environment, 60 to 80 lumens is generally sufficent.

 

[Mercaptan]

To paraphrase Ken Hackathorn, some people are "absolutely *****" about how many lumens a light can generate. For a CQB environment, 60 to 80 lumens is generally sufficent.

What this guy said. Only if you are engaging out to 50+ yards do you really need something of the M60's power. Other than that, if you want the extended run time I'd go with an M60L. Not quite sure how I'd like the flood aspect... but I don't need all those photons flying back and hindering my vision.

And for the love of God don't get that DX drop-in that was previously mentioned.

 

[beavo451]

To paraphrase Ken Hackathorn, some people are "absolutely *****" about how many lumens a light can generate. For a CQB environment, 60 to 80 lumens is generally sufficent.

Lumens alone should not be the deciding factor for a light. A SF X200A is 60 lumens, but produces an 8" diamond beam with NO spill.

I work at night and using my 6P + M60 or my X300, I have had zero problems with glare, bounce back, blinding myself, whatever. I greatly prefer the "235" lumen M60 to the "generally sufficient" 60 lumen P60. The Malkoff P7 lights up the room like somebody just turned on a light switch.

 

[smg]

Lots of good advice and lots to think about. Thanks!!

Ideally, I'd like to go a couple months between battery changes - maybe I'm just being cheap The reason I want long battery life is not so much to save on batteries, but for the assurance that I have battery power left if the light ever needed to be used in a real defensive situation. I guess 1.5 hours is a good, long time to be using a light.

Flood beams sound good in theory, but they are not necessary for indoor search, especially for slow (deliberate) search when you generally want to clear small slices at a time.

I think I really want a real flood light (or even a diffuser). I expect any self defense situation to be the opposite of slow and deliberate searching. I expect the light to be used in quick flashes, rather than a constant-on sweep, and when the light is on I want to light up half of the room instantly. I want instant target recognition, even if a threat exists 50 degrees off the light's center.

Large windows?
Worried about glare?

M60WLF

You need the depth perception of the W.
You want the longer runtime of the L, only you can decide if it will be enough light for your purpose - it may not be.
You need to clear rooms ASAP so you need the spread of the F.

I like the idea of the regular M60WL paired with the FM34 but I never liked the extra bulk.

I don't know, should I be concerned with glare from windows or off white walls (especially when using 100-150 lumens)??
I thought about getting the FM34 with a non-F M60, but I'm not sold on it yet.

I learned the expensive way. Anything but a warm LED is junk on a weapon. JMHO.

WL
WLF

Take your pick

I am seriously considering the benefits of this advice. I like the runtime of the WLF, but I am concerned that 100 bulb lumens, in a full flood output (no real hotspot), will be too few when shooting out to 20 meters. Can you tell me anything else about your experience with light output requirements in a low-light CQB environment?

To paraphrase Ken Hackathorn, some people are "absolutely *****" about how many lumens a light can generate. For a CQB environment, 60 to 80 lumens is generally sufficent.

I appreciate this advice. Several of the recommendations here seem to be for much longer ranges; I do not think the 200 lumens of the M60/F are beneficial inside my house. I am using a rifle, but the intended use is still close quarters.

A P7 sounds great, but I would be concerned with getting a good, non-cool tint. Right now, I am most interested in the M60WF followed by the M60WLF. I am still not set on how many lumens would be best, especially since the flood beams of the Malkoff lights are unknown to me. I will turn off the lights, allow my eyes to adjust, and walk around the house with a light tonight to get some idea.

Thank you all for the recommendations and ideas. Any other suggestions are still very welcome!

 

[Policetacteam]

I would have to agree with beavo451.

Lumens alone should not be the deciding factor for a light. A SF X200A is 60 lumens, but produces an 8" diamond beam with NO spill.

I work at night and using my 6P + M60 or my X300, I have had zero problems with glare, bounce back, blinding myself, whatever. I greatly prefer the "235" lumen M60 to the "generally sufficient" 60 lumen P60.

I have never had any issues with bounce back or glare affecting my night vision! . I suppose if you are looking down the business end of an M60 you probably would lose your night vision.

I completely agree with this. Lumens should not be the deciding factor but they are nice. 235 lumens will not always work for every scenario but I will take them any day over 65 lumens.