Cafe Off Limits Topics?

[entoptics]

I'm new enough here that I don't want to offend admins, or break the rules. I don't see any specific regulations against certain topics here in the Cafe, but I'd prefer to find out if there's "off limits" topics.

Obviously, by the tone around CPF, bashing, hating, and other such behaviors aren't tolerated, but are there any explicitly prohibited discussions?

Of course you may ask "Why come to a flashlight forum to discuss politics, religion, Mac vs PC, or Yankees vs Mets? Go find a religion, politics, computer, or sports forum!"

My answer is that I prefer to interact with the "general public" in a place that has members and admins who've proven themselves to warrant my respect regarding topics that aren't considered sensitive.

Political and religious forums aren't really an unbiased sampling of people I relate to. They are generally filled with folks who have a specific agenda, and therefore aren't a good sampling of people that I can respect and relate too outside of politics and religion.

Anyway, is there a standard operating procedure here in the Cafe, or is it "anything goes" as long as you don't violate the spirit and harmony of CPF in general?

 

[StarHalo]

Most common topics that you'd discuss openly in public are fine in The Cafe, just not anything that would create heated debate or controversy, such as politics, sensitive news topics, cultural criticism, religion, and NSFW material. All of that belongs in the Underground (which you're not allowed to link to from CPF, it's under More CPF Forums above.)

 

[jtr1962]

The general rule here seems to be topics which have caused problems in the past are off-limits, as well as topics which aren't "family-friendly". There used to be a lot more latitude for discussion in the past. Unfortunately, as CPF grew larger, you sometimes ended up with problems. Really, that mirrors life. The larger any group grows, the more likely the need for new rules unless you can preselect the group. Obviously, with CPF being open to anyone, that isn't possible.

Of course you may ask "Why come to a flashlight forum to discuss politics, religion, Mac vs PC, or Yankees vs Mets? Go find a religion, politics, computer, or sports forum!"

My answer is that I prefer to interact with the "general public" in a place that has members and admins who've proven themselves to warrant my respect regarding topics that aren't considered sensitive.

For what it's worth I feel likewise, and wish we had more latitude here. I know I can discuss politics in a political forum, or religion in a religious forum, but you generally find one-dimensional people in such forums. Here we have a membership where it is possible to discuss intelligently virtually any topic under the sun and still ( mostly ) remain friends. As of late though I feel we've gotten to the point of pouring water before the fire starts, so to speak. I absolutely realize this forum can be run as the administration sees fit, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it. And please note the operative words here "I feel". This is my opinion only. Others here may and probably do feel things are just fine.

Sadly, I'm seeing this general trend all over the Internet, not just here. I realize the need to keep things from getting out of hand. By the same token, overmoderation will result in some whose opinions are outside the box continually being shut down, and/or their posting misinterpreted as trolling. End result is these members who often took discussions in interesting new directions decide to go elsewhere. Those remaining are left to discuss the weather. I've already seen this happen at other forums. I'll leave it at that.

Frankly, I no longer have as much time for long drawn out discussions. Because of this, I don't really care as much as I used to about what goes on here or anywhere else online. Again, not a reflection on CPF so much as a reflection of my own personal situation and/or perhaps what I see as a general loss of freedom of expression online almost everywhere.

And thanks for starting this thread! In my opinion a discussion like this is long overdue to clear the air, so to speak. I hope the mods can keep it open if it remains civil.

 

[Icebreak]

How odd. I wrote this last night and I see JTR's post and I agree with it. That's strange. We usually disagree. I usually end up going to IHOP so I can get an extra couple of pancakes to wear on my head.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I would say that you could completely skip reading this, my post, and go with Star Halo. He basically nailed it. Also what I have for you should be considered to be opinion only with no and I mean no authority, even implied authority, at all. I can't find it but at one time a respected admin posted some guidelines about it.

Long ago when we were relatively small, religion, politics and lifestyles were discussed. We had some pretty good discussions and some not so good discussions. Politics and Religion and alternative lifestyles can become volatile quickly. This forum grew at a rate and size that I think surprised everybody.

A few of the reasons for the growth are these: Friendliness, Helpfulness and the amazing phenomenon of highly intelligent people enjoying conversing with each other about many subjects mostly dealing with sciences of light and electronics and creativity and usage. It is my view that without CPF the industry of handheld lighting would not have advanced nearly as quickly as it has.

It got to a point that the attraction of a large audience was a great temptation for some to begin posts that were a little touchy. I understand this. For instance I have a few subjects I'd like to bring up because I've known some of these guys for a decade. I would prefer hearing what a long time acquaintance would have to say about some things than someone I don't know very well. So I'm telling you I see your point.

The real problem was that there were hidden agendas present and it was easy to troll a group that respected one another and did quite understand troll's motives.

One day the owner (and I suspect a few conferences were called that included her staff's input) came up with a premium idea. If the subject had become unfriendly the subject could be brought up again in the Underground...have at it...be mean...play games...cuss...or actually have an intelligent discussion that enhanced everyone's understanding what ever you want to do.

Problem: Not many people want to go to the Underground because it is a small audience.

So you could probably, right now, start a thread on how the credit card companies caused the oil well leak in the Gulf if you and all participants were respectful of each others' views. The likelihood of that happening is slim. You might get directed to the Underground.

If the subject was just how best to assure that a leak never happened again and folks with good knowledge shared ideas without insult to any one person, group, or entity AND the thread progressed intelligently with enlightening knowledge it would fly.

If the subject was proving the existence of God it would likely have a short life.

I don't visit as often as I used to but I come to read, learn, relax and enjoy. I care not to hear someone telling me that Fred Flinston's crane was a dinosaur, so God doesn't exist, therefore it's advanced technology's fault that the Gulf got messed up and it was all so CitiBank could make a fortune.

It's just not fun.

But go back to what Star Halo said. You could probably start a controversial thread just be prepared to manage it. And be prepared for someone to say the magic word that closes threads. We used to talk about, religion politics and sex here. I think it just became a massive chore to manage it and that smart lady likes her house to be friendly so people want to come to the party.

Hope that was of some help.

 

[Greta]

entopics... well, one good rule of thumb is to refrain from using words that would not be acceptable in polite company, around your priest (preacher, rabi, minister, other religious leader), children, or others that you respect enough to curb your tongue. Get the point? :ironic:

 

[entoptics]

Thanks for the thoughtful comments. Sounds like I should probably sign up at the Underground, just in case.

I definitely understand the desire to keep CPF civil and friendly. It's one of the reasons I like to visit. The reason I started this thread was to gauge the past experiences of members/admins regarding what sorts of topics might be discussed civilly. Sounds like it's much the same here as most places. A few uncivil folks grenade the rest of us.

 

[StarHalo]

Sounds like I should probably sign up at the Underground, just in case.

We do enjoy visitors Underground..

 

[Larbo]

 

[JaxChris]

I've got 5$ on the Baboon. He looks hungry.

 

[blasterman]

Kinda looks like my hood'. Then again I have a cat that goes after pitbulls - and backs them down - with no claws. Yeah, it's a tough neighborhood.

For what it's worth I feel likewise, and wish we had more latitude here.

Same here. My biggest irritation is when we have one of those threads dealing with a controversial topic, but all of us are exchanging opinionated but intelligent ideas, and then somebody thread-bombs getting it closed.

In some cases I appreciate the mods doing some editing; aka computer threads. Somebody posts a computer problem and you can't troubleshoot without a few dozen "buy a Mac / try Linux" remarks. It's annoying, rude, and not helpful in the least.

 

[entoptics]

It's definitely unfortunate that the first amendment rights of typical folks are crapped on by a few, but I understand that a "family friendly" website is pretty hard to manage otherwise.

In my experience, moderators already have so much to deal with that they'd rather take the easy route and wholesale ban controversial topics rather than attempt to delete individual posts which violate the spirit of the forum.

It's too bad that there isn't a "report post" button on CPF to do their work for them. I'm sure a few of the loyal, established CPF members here would volunteer to police reported violations as "pseudo-mods".

On a side note, I'm now trying to find a baboon-hyena hybrid for a household pet. They are just so dang cute, and they look awesome on the end of a log chain...

 

[jtr1962]

It's too bad that there isn't a "report post" button on CPF to do their work for them. I'm sure a few of the loyal, established CPF members here would volunteer to police reported violations as "pseudo-mods".

There is. That little triangle shaped symbol with a ! inside on the upper right of a post is the report post button. I personally rarely use it, and then generally to report obvious cases of spam. Sometimes threads get heated or off-topic, but I defer to the side of not reporting posts unless one of the posters resorts to personal attacks. That doesn't happen here very often anyway.

 

[entoptics]

There is. That little triangle shaped symbol with a ! inside on the upper right of a post is the report post button. I personally rarely use it, and then generally to report obvious cases of spam. Sometimes threads get heated or off-topic, but I defer to the side of not reporting posts unless one of the posters resorts to personal attacks. That doesn't happen here very often anyway.

Thanks for the heads up. I'm a little slow sometimes.

Do the head honchos here at CPF farm the "report post" duties out? If not, the root problem still remains. Too much to do to make it worthwhile for the site owners to let conversations run their course. Much easier to ban stuff before it happens. Not exactly fair or free, but it's their house, and they have to run it how they see fit.

 

[jtr1962]

How odd. I wrote this last night and I see JTR's post and I agree with it. That's strange. We usually disagree. I usually end up going to IHOP so I can get an extra couple of pancakes to wear on my head.

I remember a lot of our debates. Truthfully, I didn't know they caused you to go around wearing pancakes.

In truth, I've seen some pretty intense debates here. Some I was involved in, others I just read. Continuing the line of thought of my last post here, what has changed in the last few years, not just on CPF, but it seems everywhere online, has been the tone. I could vehemently disagree with Icebreak on some subject, and yet be just as likely to help him out with problem the next day elsewhere in the forum, or even have lunch or dinner with him if he were close by. Note how this tends towards friendship, agreeing to disagree on subjects where you're hopelessly at odds, but at the same time recognizing you have more in common than not. Now compare this to the level of debate I see quite often online ( look at the comments on Yahoo! news articles for great examples of this ) where if someone disagrees with you in one area, they're the enemy, and given all sorts of labels. Basically, many people now don't even want to hear what the other side has to say. It's my way or the high way with them. The implications of this are both profound and frightening. The causes are anyone's guess.

Thankfully for the most part members here aren't like that. Unfortunately, you'll have enough who are, even in an intelligent group like this, to mess things up for everyone else. You'll also sometimes have otherwise reasonable people maybe going through an awful time in their life who just post out of character. It happens. I've done it myself.

If there was more self-moderation there would be less need for enforced moderation. Probably wishful thinking, but it would be nice if everyone followed a few simple guidelines. Most importantly, attack the post, not the poster. Someone may say something which you know is completely wrong. Don't call the poster names. Just explain why they are wrong.

If it's a subject without clear cut answers, then maybe ask for clarification of the point of view of someone you may disagree with. Remember also that both of your views are opinions only, so you may have to agree to disagree. And if you're already been over the same debate a few times with same poster, why waste bandwidth jumping into it again unless you have new material to offer? That sort of covers some of the debates I had with Icebreak. I pretty much made my opinions known in the past, and he has his opinions. At some point you just have to agree to disagree, and simply avoid getting involved any more in threads on that subject.

Another good guideline is to avoid demeaning someone's interests. This is a hobby forum. Everyone has particularly areas of it they're very interested in, and others they don't really care about, or perhaps even actively dislike. Fine. Don't go into the forums for aspects of a hobby you dislike and start crapping on threads. If you like, say, running, don't go to a bicycle forum and say bicycles stink. You're obviously not going to get a good reception. Perhaps instead, if you really still must post there, you might say you're a runner and really would like to know the appeal of cycling. See the difference? Less implied hostility, and a willingness to see the opinions of the other side, versus a complete dismissal of the subject. You might even learn a thing or two. If you're really lucky, you may even end up with another interest.

 

[jtr1962]

Do the head honchos here at CPF farm the "report post" duties out?

There are moderators responsible for each sub-forum. Beyond that, this is a question only the admins can answer.

 

[Icebreak]

The Underground Wine Cellar is by and large a polite and friendly group. If someone is getting out of line with you often an oldtimer will often call attention to the matter. New comers are usually welcomed by this group which is typically more aggressively inspired to progressively get to the business at hand.

Give it a try. You might be surprised at how much fun it can be.

 

[LuxLuthor]

The photos in this thread are priceless. The image of my good friend, Icebreak, wearing pancakes on his head, let alone in reaction to anyone is something I would never have been able to think previously. So already, this thread has expanded my reality.

I agree with most of what is said, and even though I think I'm on **Ignore/Avoid at all costs** list with certain posters in this thread. I can relate to the sentiments they expressed, but I won't fawn towards them if I disagree, which has a certain cost I am willing to live with. Over time you mostly learn who to avoid, and what not to post about. Forget any conservative views, for example.

I do know that you can post facts about chicken eggs, how great Avatar was--which by the way is coming back to IMax and 3D Theaters this Friday, August 27th with new footage...you can also post about hurricanes, snow, heat/cold waves, and new technical things in the news, and getting help with your swimming pool. So if you stick to those, you are all set. LOL! :thumbsup:

I have never had any interest in participating in the Underground because life is too short and enough members who I respect and have had many phone calls with over the years have said they find it beyond blunt, mostly offensive, and far from respectful. I guess it draws a certain crowd, but I doubt it represents the colorful diversity you have in this community.

 

[blasterman]

Actually, I've found very few forums on the net where there are free wheeling discussions that also handle controversial topics, and it stays civil. Even those web-sites that have specific forums for the discussion of politics/religion and give it some lattitude don't really accomplish much. 80% of the responses end up just being nasty rhetoric and nothing intelligent.

In an open forum like this or any other good luck mentioning a topic like 'Health Care' and not have it degenerate into a polarized flame-fest; 'who's side are you on, etc.,?' Which is really sad because many of these topics we know will result in a thread lock are very, very, very complicted and there should be no 'side' to be on.

In this respect, it's no wonder that 'invite only' sites like Facebook are so popular.

 

[jtr1962]

I agree with most of what is said, and even though I think I'm on **Ignore/Avoid at all costs** list with certain posters in this thread.

Nobody on my ignore list at this point. I tried it a few times with a few people here. It ends up being more an annoyance than anything else, and also counter to my principal of listening even to people with whom I don't always agree.

I do know that you can post facts about chicken eggs, how great Avatar was--which by the way is coming back to IMax and 3D Theaters this Friday, August 27th with new footage...

And if I had you on ignore I would have missed this great tidbit of news! I never saw Avatar when it was in the theaters. Reading the reviews, I wished I had. So now I get a second chance! Thanks for the heads up!

 

[LuxLuthor]

And if I had you on ignore I would have missed this great tidbit of news! I never saw Avatar when it was in the theaters. Reading the reviews, I wished I had. So now I get a second chance! Thanks for the heads up!

So this thread brought us back together then. That's pretty damn sweet in my book, and again makes this a great topic.

Just think. Blasterman can finally see and enjoy the blue people and their big eyes, and fully compare it to Dances With Wolves now too.

One of the things I found most interesting about this movie and it's immersive 3D effect, and studies are being done to measure neurotransmitters levels as a way to explain its psycho-physiological impact--and of course for drug companies to find new ways to make money. Many took note of this movie's organic effect. I have not seen any movies at theaters since, preferring to watch at home.

I swear they filmed Animal House in my fraternity, and have no idea how we ever kept our charter, but in any case we did do our share of "various drugs" in my earlier college days. Hell you couldn't fully appreciate Pink Floyd without them--and the effect of this film was reminiscent physiologically but on a different scale.