converting an old lathe

[aljsk8]

Hi

i have a friend with a lathe - it an old treadle (sp) lathe
its just sitting in his yard

im pretty sure he would let me have it if i begged

everything seams to be ok on it (although i have little knowledge on these things)

it needs a clean up (think surface rust) and greasing up
maybe a paint

its quite small and if i took the stand off could be put on a bench

so heres the question

is it worth me fixing this up an attaching a motor
or am i wasting my time?

id like to learn to lathe (if thats a word)
most ill ever want to do is make some single celled lights
no milling just grooves and threads

will it be up to the job (obviously after ive done the learning bit)

 

[LukeA]

If it's a treadle lathe, it's probably meant for wood, and I wouldn't recommend converting to to work metal or adding a motor. I would recondition it and leard to turn with it, because it's safer than with a powered lathe.

Full disclosure: I was almost very seriously injured or killed by a (cherry) block that flew off the lathe when the motor jammed.

 

[bugleone]

I assume this is a small screwcutting lathe of the type common up to WWII...

So, essentially, it must be very old and has most probably seen a lot of use by a long succession of owners,...so the first consideration is; what is the state of wear of the main headstock bearings? Grab hold of the chuck/face plate/spindle nose,..whatever there is and try to lift it up with both hands,..there shoulld be little or no play or movement of the main spindle. A little bi8t of movement can probably be adjusted or tightened out but anything more means new bearings and for that era (on a British machine) almost certainly solid machined from cast iiron. Can't pop into a bearings place and get a replacement sealed unit.

Second matter;....If still in treadly config then the power was probably delivered to the spindle/headstock by flat leather belt. To convert to electric motor will require at least one set pf pulleys of the right sizes and dimensions. to fit this the spindle/headstock must be taken down,..ie full machine strip.

Third matter;...cost equations; When these old machines are converted there is a lot of specialist machining which means it must be done by the new owner if major cost is to be avoided. Assuming full convertion, is this machine going to be cost effective against one of the many modern Chinese lathes which are very cheap for what they are and come with most common accessories in the box.

 

[aljsk8]

ok - what i will do is take some photos (post them here) and check the points you have mensioned

thanks guys

Alex

 

[scott.cr]

I doubt you'll be able to cut metal with a Treadle, it's a woodworking lathe. The tool forces when cutting metal are HUGE. I don't blame ya for asking though! I've always wanted to restore an old lathe...

 

[will]

does it have a tool carriage? or just a tool post for wood tools? does it still turn?

If it has been sitting is someones yard - I bet the rust is more than surface deep.

 

[aljsk8]

from memory it certainly looks like a lathe for metal work - its got one of the square blocks for holding tools and quite a few tools

and i think a 4 jaw chuck like many of the photos ive seen on CPF

im pretty sure its not for wood

its also been covered with a plastic sheet to keep water off

ill check it out at the weekend

thanks for the info guys

 

[Data]

Check to see how much rust is on the ways.

 

[bugleone]

scott.cr,

Treadle power was the common propulsion on small metal turning/screwcutting lathes from before 1850 to WWII. Factories of this period were steam powered by a large static engine and the power was distributed to the production lathes and machines by a series of layshafts and canvas belts. Power was always at a premium so the smaller lathes used by senior machinists and toolmakers to make one-off parts for the other machines or for prototypes etc., were all treadle operated. Sometimes the 'treadle' took the form of a beam and was operated by two boys.

I still have my grandfathers lathe which he used from 1925 until his death in 1962,..it has a 4 inch centre height and is about 14 inches between centres. I keep it purely for sentimental reasons as it has many memories for me although I don't use it. I also still have the cast iron flywheel somewhere at the back of my workshop. In 1940 the treadle was cracked by bomb blast during the London blitz and in 1950 my grandfather converted the lathe by adding an ex WD electric motor to power first the lathe and then later the flywheel. However, like many of the old time machinists he prefered to have the direct control over speed and 'feel' which the treadle gave and eventually discarded the motor.

 

[aljsk8]

thanks for the history

i will probably be able to look at this on saturday

and ill post some photos

Alex

 

[aljsk8]

 

[bugleone]

OK,..I would say there is good and bad news.......

Obviously it's old (I don't as yet recognise the make/age but pre WWII era) and quite rusted so the first thing to say is it HAS to be VERY cheap if any money changes hands.

Secondly, it needs a LOT of work to get it working accurately assuming thats possible,...we're not talking 'restoration' here either, just getting it into action.

As mentioned before; the main bearings in the spindle/headstock mountings are fairly crucial as any great wear means a machining job to replace.

Obviously, there is a 4 jaw independant chuck fitted and a small 3 jaw would be about £30 to buy with backplate possibly extra. More seriously, is there a complete set of change wheels (cogs) with the lathe? as these are likely to be not only expensive but probably difficult to source.

Is there a tool post present?......the lathe looks like it was last used for boring out a largish component clamped to the saddle. The tool post may be around the lathe somewhere....?

Now onto the 'good' news.....

This lathe could potentially be readily converted to electric motor because it already has 'V' pulleys fitted to the headstock,...all you need apart from motor, is a similar set of pulleys for the drive belt to give a range of spindle speeds. Also the lathe is fitted with back-gear, although the cogs look to be well rusted. The all important leadscrew will hopefully be in reasonable condition as it's inside the lathe bed and has thus be protected to a degree.

So,....if this is going to be very cheap or, preferably, a give away,...and, you will enjoy fiddling with it for many hours to get it running then you MIGHT have a viable machine. If any money is to change hands then you will be better off with a Chinese 'mini-lathe' at about £300 as it will come more or less ready to go out of the box with a reasonable selection of accessories and getting anything you need will be easy and cheap by fast mail order in the UK. There is also plenty of web-sites and other documentaion about the mini-lathe so it will be easy to ask questions and get answers quickly. Although 300 quid seems like a lot of money compared to what this old lathe might cost, remember that even if it's a 'giveaway' it is still going to cost quite a few bob to buy the neccessary bits and pieces and take many hours of work to get any use out of it so, in the end, the mini-lathe option may well turn out to be the cheaper and more practical route to turning bliss!

 

[Anglepoise]

aljsk8

Probably best to pass on this one. It would be a huge amount of work and even the best of us would be forgiven if interest half way through the project was lost.
Also there could be expensive bearing problems. Unless turning becomes a hobby, and if it does.....great, a lathe is just a tool for you to fix/mod/and make flashlights.

However if you have patience, space, and a well equipped shop, then go for it and the best of luck.

 

[will]

I enjoy restoring old stuff. As an antique, that lathe may have some value.
I think that by the time you fix it up and get it work you could get yourself a nice new(er) lathe. There is a lot of rust on everything....

 

[aljsk8]

sorry i posted only photos

internet connection been down

now for some info - bearings have no play and turn smoothly
all parts move and turn as they should with no play

its all rusty - which is obvious

it comes with a 3 jaw chuck and about 20 rusty tools

attaching a motor is going to be easy and i doubt ill have to pay for the lathe

so whats stopping me stripping it all down and going mad with a wire brush and some hammorite paint then oiling all the right bits which will only really cost time?

Alex

 

[bugleone]

"....
so whats stopping me stripping it all down and going mad with a wire brush and some hammorite paint then oiling all the right bits which will only really cost time?..."

Fatal last words!.......

But, in essence, nothing is stopping you,....and at least you seem keen!

Buy a 5ltr can of 'Jenolite',...wire brush away the surface rust,..apply 'jenolite' and leave for a while,.....

On machined surfaces such as the bed ways,...apply the jenolite and when 'dry' use a sharp knife to carefully scrape the surface,...you will find you can get it very smooth,...don't worry about surface pitting as unless the 'pits' are huge it will not affect the accuracy of the lathe,...However, DON'T try to grind away any rust on the bed surface and be careful about the use of ANY abrasive there.....

Keep us informed,..we may be able to help you further,...you can PM me if you wish.

 

[ABTOMAT]

If it still has the treadle it would be worth more as an antique than a user lathe, at least in the US.

 

[Torque1st]

Just remember to take it completely apart (take pictures) and clean each part individually. Do not use abrasives. Have FUN!