DIY HID 5300-5600Lumen, cheap and bright as the sun

[Masterofbeam]

Why shoult a bulb with 3000 lumen only have more CP then with >5.400, 11.000 or 22.000 ?


My 50W standart lamp, not 100W and not 200W.

price, the parts: ~ 300$
running time: >4 hours
lumen: 5400-5600
weight: 2700 gramm
dimm, switchable: yes
efficiency: 110 lumen/watt
lumen per g: 2
adjustable beam: no fixed, angle unnown.

Please Ra. tell us your specs to compare.


50 Lux at 100 meters.
You can get 50 Lux at 100 meters from some milliwatt if you using a laser.
But you can not see anything with this.
Is this then more CP......?.....no!


I think its a question how much degree the reflector is having.
You must have a very small spot to get the 50 lux at 1000 meters.
Maybe my spot is after 100m so big as yours at 1000.
So we compare pears with apples.

What shoult i do with a spot in 500 meters when i am standing complete in the dark.
Then i must use telescope or binocular to see someting there.
Its good on a heli or a tank.
I dont have...

My BB ist a little to spotty to use them in the forest, see the pictuers first side.
And to get more spot makes no sense for my or for normal using.
I need the Light arround me up to 50m and 500m to play with the beam.
Or impressing my frends or shocking other peoples.

On a second BB for a frend I was de-adjusting the bulb in the refclector some millimeters. Now its more flood lower spot. More like a baseball field.


Sorry for my english.
I am not shure what "calling you out" means.

But if it means i am not the number 1 so its not a problem for me.
Anybody can use a rucksack on his back.
Put in a small nuclear reactor.
And you get lumen how much you want.

But a real thing with 5.400, 11.000 or 20.000 lumen to buy, get, make under 3kg and running for hours for 300-500 $ is a other thing.
Bulb replacement after 3000-6000 hours <100$

And yo can do it.



Regards

Mike

 

[Masterofbeam]

Yep !!! If you are talking candlepowers.. I do have much more !!... If you have a luxmeter, please do a measurement at 1000 meter distance from your torch..

You'll never come close to the +50 lux that Maxablaster generates at that distance !!!

However, with 11,000 lumens yours shure puts out a lot of light !!


Regards,

Ra.

You must be wrong RA, see here, the technical datas from your and my bulb.


HBO 103 2 bulb specifications:
category: Medical/Scientific
watt: 100
i.lumens: 3100
cp: 250
d.hours: 300


DL 50W PHILIPS bulb specifications:
category: Specialty
watt: 50
i.lumens: 5300
cp: 420
d.hours: 3000

The HBO 103 produces 7 times more heath then my DL50 bulb.

The DL50 is not able to make such a small spot becorse the the arc gap is much longer.


So both bulbs have theyr spaciality.
Using a 300$ - 300 hours bulb with a powerconsumption of 100W efficiency only 31l/w.
Using a 100$- 3000 hours and powerconsumption is 50W only but 110l/w efficiency.
Ballast dimmable and so on, using standart parts.

Take my parts and put them inside the cyclops thor and you will se what a real bright lamp can do but not with this extremely spot.

You shoult get then:
> 80.000 CP at 50W
> 120.000 CP at 75W
> 160.000 CP at 100W
> 330.000 CP at 200W


Regards

Mike

 

[tebore]

Calling you out is a term meaning he's challenging you or setting a challenge. I wouldn't mind seeing a challenge on who can get the most throw.

I think what Ra meant is his light has more throw and thus CP because unless I'm mistaken CP is a measurement of throw or at least how concentrated a beam is. So 35W might have more CP than a 100W if the reflector is set up for it.

 

[Ra]

Hi Mike,

First let me tell you that this is not about you having a cheap solution for making a super torch, you have done that!!

I only reacted to your assumption that the high lumens output of your torch automatically means high CP-output.. That is the wrong assumption !!

Why does a Magcharger generate 30,000 CP's with only a 10 CP bulb ?? The answer is simple: It uses a Reflector !!! If this torch had a reflector with two times the diameter, it would generate 120,000 CP's,, With the same bulb!!

You may not and cannot compare the CP-specs of our bulbs when we are using them with reflectors !!

Yep, my bulb has lower efficiency, has lower lumens output as well.. But it has someting that is very important if it comes to using it with a reflector : Ultra high surface brightness !!

A laser has super high surface brightness, but indeed not usefull as a flashlight: It has absolutely no sidespill !

But, and this is important in our discussion: If that laser reads 50 lux at 1000 meters, then it has an output of 50 million CP's !! NO MATTER HOW MUCH LUMENS IT PRODUCES!! THIS IS AN OPTICAL FACT !! NOT DISPUTABLE !!! (not calculating the losses in the atmosphere)

CP simply is lux at certain distance (1 CP = 1 lux at 1 meter)

You have made a nice torch, with decent throw. (remember: CP-value= throw)

I made a HID Thor with over 7000 lumens output, very impressive. With the big 9 inch reflector it reaches a throw of about 1.5 miles (4,500,000 CP).
Indeed this HID-Thor is more practical in therms of usabillity.

But you thought you had the most powerfull torch on CP-output because of its high lumens-output.. And here I must dissapoint you.

All the things you mention about efficiency, cheap parts and stuff are not an issue here: You mentioned CP's in the post I quoted earlier, assuming that CP-output is directly related to lumens-output, and that is a false assumption..

You mentioned those billion candles, and asked if anyone had more..

So I reacted: Simply because if it comes to candles,, I INDEED HAVE MORE, MUCH MORE !!!

And,, did you measure the lux-output at 1000 meters from the torch, like I asked?? You can also measure closer by ofcource. But the lux measurement at certain distance is related to CP-output (and throw as well) !! It is not related to lumens-output !!

1 CP = 1 lux at 1 meter

1 lux at 10 meter = 100 CP

1 lux at 100 meter = 10.000 CP etc, etc.



EDIT: Tebore, You are exactly right !!! One remark tho: Not only the reflector must be set up for it, the lamp as well needs to be set up for it in therms of surface brightness !!



Regards,

Ra.

 

[Masterofbeam]

Ok, Ra.

You are right.
CP is a definition.

In Germany we dont use CP.
Lux and lumen is better, yes.
And with millions or billions or trillions of candles i shoult better say real burning candles.

If we messure the CP i have no chance.
Not with a standart reflector and 4mm between the electrodes.
Only combination of reflector and the minimal arc gap gives maximum CP.

To find out wich is the brightest torch over all we must messure the candela per square km or acre maybe.

Then we will have a real impression of the brightness of our torches.
CP gives not any information about the brightnes.

And in the value for brightness i shoult calling you out.
I hope brightness is the right word for it.


Regards

Mike

 

[LuxLuthor]

I love all the things you have done, and pictures. Really great job.

I also love all the things Ra did with his Megablaster light.

 

[Ra]

Mike,

You are doing things many CPF-members can only dream of !!

It is always difficult when it comes to point out the quality of a light: Is it 'brightness' or 'luminocity'.???.

The CP-value in the lamp-specs you mentioned is called MSCP (Mean Spherical CandlePower): It is the light-output of the lamp in all directions.

The MSCP is somewhat compareble with lumens output. I say somewhat because no lamp is radiating light in all directions (omnidirectional). Only the sun can do that !! A candle commes close.

The 4-Pi sterradian rule says that with a fully omnidirectional light-source 1 CP equals 12,57 lumens. Only in that case you can use lumens as well as (MS-) CP to express the output of a lamp.

But like I said, no bulb is omnidirectional, so professional manufacturers mostly mention both lumens and (MS-) CP in their lamp-specs.

HOWEVER: There is that "other" CP,, the CP that we at CPF mostly use for our flashlights: This is called BCP, or Beam CandlePower, the output of a torch, measured exactly in the hottest (center) part of the beam: This is absolutely not related to lumens-output.

Example: Take a 1,000,000 MSCP bulb, and a 1,000,000 BCP flashlight with a 1000 lumen bulb: The 1mill MSCP-bulb has an output of 1,000,000 CP's omnidirectional, the flashlight only in one direction: along the Z-axis in front of the reflector! (narrow beam)

Now I am standing 1000 meters away from that very powerfull bulb (aprox 12,500,000 lumens!!) You are standing next to that bulb, pointing the 1 Mill CP flashlight directly at me: I couldn't tell the difference, they would both seem just as bright !! But they still have a huge difference in lumens output!!


There is another thing that needs to be mentioned here:

If you put a bulb into a flashlight, some of the lumens-output of the bulb is lost.. Everywhere at CPF, you can find words like bulb-lumens and torch-lumens.
The reflectivity and smoothness of the reflector, the direction in which most of the lumens is radiated by the source are only a few of the factors that determine the actual lumens you end up with if the torch is finished.

This loss of lumens can be quite severe: Don't be surprised when you put a 1000 lumens bulb in a torch and end up with only 650 torch-lumens !!
I cannot give exact values on this, they vary too much !!

Point is: You cannot say you have a 3200 lumens torch if you use a 3200 lumens bulb in it...

It is very hard, nearly impossible to actually measure the output of a torch in torch-lumens. However, you can compare the lumens-output of torches, doing a 'ceiling-bounce' or a 'lightbox' test.

If you want to say something about the quality of your torch: Mention both the lumens-output and (B-)CP-output of the torch.. Ofcource first you must measure the lux at, lets say 10 meters from the torch, with calibrated equipment, before you can say anything about the Beam Candlepower output.


Keep up the good work !!

Regards,

Ra.

 

[tebore]

You guys seem to be the kings of HID on this forum I'd personly like to see what each of you can bring to the table. Ra we seem to have an idea. Masterofbeam you seem to have a great skill maybe you can make a torch that does nothing but throw light.

 

[Masterofbeam]

For me this discussion in english is very difficult.
The half i can not say/write and the other half i dont understand.
Must use a dictionary.
And understand what i have read.

And i am happy the most things about light they have a logic behind.

But i mean in my case its better to make more pictures and less text.
Its difficult enough to talk correct about light.
And double to do this in english.


Ra,

can i find a picture anywhere, long the street for a distance 500m-1000m
Comparable to any of my pictures along the streets at night?
To get a feeling how extrem the spot is and how much light you get sidewards.

Is your reflektor available to get anywhere, price ? diameter ~ 23cm ?


Regards

Mike

 

[rufusdufus]

Masterofbeam look at this;

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/139958

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/125819

http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/pm1074.html

 

[Masterofbeam]

Thanks rufusdufus.

Someting i was found by clicking RAs avatar yestersay.

But his pictures are miles away only.
No picture what the lamp does in the short distances.
But this was also not his intention when i read it right.


I have no such a picture, not possible
Maybe 1km or 1 mile.
I dont now how much.


Made by my BB

Maybe 1km or 1 mile, to the other side of the valley, digicam i use at 37mm










This picture is using the cam with zoom now, x8




I mean it was not absolute clear this night, a little bit fog in the air.


Regards

Mike

 

[3rd_shift]

Very good! :goodjob:

This much light from something portable and cordless is just amazing! :wow:

Ideal for search and rescue use too.

Your work can certainly inspire a new generation of improved cordless, rechargeable lights. :bow:

 

[Masterofbeam]

And its a very good photo or video light.
Not to big, not to havy and light for hours.

 

[02Scuba]

Masterofbeam - It sure looks like you know your HID's and how to build them. I would like to build one to use s a dive light. I was thinking of using a Underwater Kenetics D8 Sunlight housing. I'd Like to put a 40-50 watt HID in that housing that will burn for at least 65 minutes. Am I dreaming or is this a possibility ? If it is possible can you help me with it. I will pay you for your help. What do you think ? Thanks,

02Scuba

 

[Masterofbeam]

Hello 02Scuba.

You have to look for the right diamater, becorse reflektor and Li-Ion cells and ballast.

The 50W you can use from 24 -50W dimm and or switchable.

65 minutes at 50W input at the bulb are 60W at all.

To be shure we take better 90W

7 cells in a raw and 2 parallel is more then 100W also ok.
If the Lamp runns longer and if you sholt be missed then its maybe easy to find you arount the bright divinglamp.

Cells are 65mm long and 18mm diameter.

Ballast 88mm diameter 33mm thikness.
Igniter uses a little bit place.


Its not a dream.
Do it like I do it and you will have it.


With this mail I have helpt you with first informations to find the right housing.

When i sell some required parts to you then we are shure it will work on the end. And I think you must not pay for information. And when I do more then we will find out it when its time for.

Its also possible to send something to me and i fix the problem.

The best is to email me.


Regards

Mike

 

[02Scuba]

Masterofbeam:

You are very kind to provide me with the information. Can you sell me the Ballest, ignighter and bulb. 24 - 50 watts dim and switchable is good. I need water proof swiitch. If you cannot get this switch I will. I will also supply the battery back and charger. Please let me know. Thank you

Mike

 

[LuxLuthor]

This looks like a nice reflector also. Don't know what you would mount it in. Look how deep this sucker is.

 

[karlthev]

Where did THIS come from?? Size??


Karl

 

[Ra]

Ellipsodial reflectors are useless for flashlights! This one creates a perfect spot at about 100 millimeters from the reflector. The spot is all messed up at infinnity !!

These are mostly used in lab- and medical equipment.



Regards,

Ra.

 

[chesterqw]

Ra, this will work right? http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/pm1074.html