Does the US Govt. fear its' citizens?

[Chengiz]

Re: Does the US Govt. fear its\' citizens?

I think a better term would be repect its citizens. I f they feared us they would over regulate us. When they don't respect us you have situations like California. The citizens take the power of the people and throw a bloodless coup. The lack of respect was by the standing Governor fighting that very will.

In the end was the recall a good thing, history will tell. How much did this recall effort cost the people of California. How much respect did the government have for it's people to allow this situation. Did this sneak up on them?

Let us see if that Disrespect continues, will they go forward with the law suits.

 

[charliek]

Re: Does the US Govt. fear its\' citizens?

I found this quite a while ago- Not sure of it's exact source-



Number of physicians in the US:
700,000.

Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year:
120,000 (AMA).

Accidental deaths per physician:
0.171 (U.S. Dept. of Health Human Services)

Number of gun owners in the US:
80,000,000.
Number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups):
1,500.
Accidental deaths per gun owner: 0.0000188

Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more
dangerous than gun owners.

"FACT: Not everyone has a gun, but everyone has at
least one Doctor." Please alert your friends to this alarming
threat. We must ban doctors before this gets out of hand.

As a Public Health Measure, I have withheld the statistic
on Lawyers for fear that the shock could cause people to
seek medical aid.

 

[jayflash]

Re: Does the US Govt. fear its\' citizens?

Our government will only fear us when more than 20% of the population over 18 gets smart, more informed, and starts voting. We wave the flag in throes of false patriotism but have abdicated our responsibility of being active, informed, citizens.

Not voting is disrespectful to our veterans and is the reason our government sucks...we let it happen. Too many that do take the time to vote are terribly uninformed and get their info from Rush Lamebrain and Fox Hole News.

 

[_mike_]

Re: Does the US Govt. fear its\' citizens?

I live in an area where, by the time the police show up it's all over. We will be in body bags and the police will simply have to go find out who committed the crime. I feel it is my obligation to be pro-active to protect my family, myself and property. It is unrealistic to think that law enforcement personnel can be everywhere all the time.

I am also disappointed in legislation that ham-strings law enforcement and hampers their ability to do their jobs effectivley which also endangers their lives. I get angry when someone who is carrying a gun and fires it and aims it at bystanders and will not cooperate with the police and the police have to shoot them.......and the police get crapped on by human rights groups. They get called racists and the officers get invesigated and unjustly persecuted. The police DID the right thing. Trust me, this has happened several times in the past couple of years here in WA state and it sickens me no end. I'm not saying that police are always above reproach, but when it is clear they followed procedure (evidenced because it was actually filmed and eye witness accounts) why are they being crapped on? Where is the accountability of the person who they shot for endangering lives?

I believe in the right keep and bear arms responsibly. I was raised to respect the law and people. I cannot stress this enough...I take gun ownership seriously, extremely seriously. I only handle my firearms when necessary which includes but is not necessarily limited to.....practice, cleaning, general inspection. In other words, I handle them when it is needed, not to simply "play" with them.

I have guns I have purchased, for hunting....and guns I have inherited. The only one I purchased strictly for self preservation was my Winchester 12g. If push came to shove, I would take up arms to help protect my community, help law enforcement, and offer safe haven if social unrest was present or if my government went beserk (which I don't see happening). I love my country and respect our laws and would never do anything to hurt it. I would not take up arms just for the hell of it. It would have to be a pretty major thing.

Here is a nice little quote from Thomas Jefferson.....

"When the government fears the people there is liberty; when the people fear the government there is tyranny."


These opinions are mine and mine alone and I am sorry for being long winded. Obviously we could all write a ton more, I know I could.

Mike

 

[BB]

Re: Does the US Govt. fear its\' citizens?

[ QUOTE ]
Chengiz said:
In the end was the recall a good thing, history will tell. How much did this recall effort cost the people of California.

[/ QUOTE ]

Last I heard, costs were ~$67,000,000 for the election. We are even today, running approximately $30,000,000 a day deficit here in California.

If something changes (a big if), then I consider the election to be money well spent.

-Bill

 

[DieselDave]

Re: Does the US Govt. fear its\' citizens?

[ QUOTE ]
jayflash said:
Not voting is disrespectful to our veterans and is the reason our government sucks...we let it happen.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, how very true.

[ QUOTE ]
Too many that do take the time to vote are terribly uninformed and get their info from Rush Lamebrain and Fox Hole News.

[/ QUOTE ]
Just for the record that comment is baiting but I will take the bait. Maybe we should all get our news from the bastion of unbiased and responsible journalism, The New York lies so many Times /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[jhereg]

Re: Does the US Govt. fear its\' citizens?

I would not say the US government fears the citizens. Certain would be tyrants fear people who cannot be intimidated or purchased.

The comment about "if say it all went pear shaped and huge riots broke out in the US. Gangs of people armed to the teeth with their own weapons of mass destruction. " is an example that will never happen. We are citizens of this country, not subjects. If everything really blew up in this country I would expect some isolated riots, some really bad news from the disarmed portions of the country & the rest of the country to be more like Florida after the hurricane (Andrew?). Citizens would watch their own areas until services could be restored. If it went on long enough it would be a different matter, but truly desperate people are not rational.

Andy

 

[jayflash]

Re: Does the US Govt. fear its\' citizens?

Diesel, I was hoping that by naming (mostly) discredited news-sources that my comments would, at best, be considered only "soft" baiting.

A wide variety of news-sources is the best way to obtain information. If people limit themselves to only one source of info it's harder to get the big picture.

I'm just a backwater bumkin but I knew my state was in deep financial trouble ten years before either political party broke the bad news. I've no inside track; I just pay attention to the same info available to everyone.

I firmly believe that third-party candidates must be elected so the other two start serving their public.

 

[DieselDave]

Re: Does the US Govt. fear its\' citizens?

I agree with your sentiments. Now to find those 3rd party candidates that's are not far left or right, really do have our best interest at heart and can keep it there. All candidates have an agenda and it seems that even when the good ones get elected they often get drunk with the power and rapidly go down hill. No party is immune and that includes the left, right and center.

To answer the title of the thread, "Does the US Govt. fear its' citizens?" The answer is NO.

If they feared the citizens they would do a better job. Special interest would have less influence, political correctness would give way to right and wrong and they wouldn't dare vote themselves a raise or have that sweet retirement plan and on and on.

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

Re: Does the US Govt. fear its\' citizens?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dedhorse.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dedhorse.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dedhorse.gif

Maybe the time has really come for MEANINGFULL Term LIMITS???

And MEANINGFULL election rules?

Make it POSSIBLE and I might even run. But I could not be beholding to ANYONE!

 

[Stainless]

Re: Does the US Govt. fear its\' citizens?

[ QUOTE ]
DieselDave said:

To answer the title of the thread, "Does the US Govt. fear its' citizens?" The answer is NO.

If they feared the citizens they would do a better job. Special interest would have less influence, political correctness would give way to right and wrong and they wouldn't dare vote themselves a raise or have that sweet retirement plan and on and on.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well said.

 

[X-CalBR8]

Re: Does the US Govt. fear its\' citizens?

@PlayboyJoeShmoe: That's the problem with our election system today alright. 1. You either have to be independently wealthy to run or 2. You have to be bought off by special interest groups in order to run. Well, this is all assuming that you actually want to have more than a .001% chance of winning anyway.

A poor person is the most likely, by far, to have the the best interest at heart for his fellow poor, but a poor person could never in a million years even come close to coming to power in our current government, without first selling out to the corporations, whose agenda is diametrically opposed to the best interest of the poor. The corporations only believe in helping the poor to a degree sufficient to keep them in slavery to them, but never enough to help them to break out of their poverty, otherwise, who would the corporations have left to exploit?

They say on the news with each new poll every year that the divide between the few mega-rich in this country and the poverty stricken poor grows larger and larger. Given enough time, and assuming this trend carries on for another few decades, as it has for the last few decades, I can foresee a time that the poor will have no other option but to revolt against the system. Of course, given the other trend concerning gun control in this country, we will likely be fighting against government tanks with sticks and stones just like those poor Chinese college students did on Tiananmen Square a few years back...

In answer to the original question of "Does the US Govt. fear it's citizens?", I would say, not nearly enough, or else they would have the best interest of the people, as a whole, at heart instead of just the corporations and other special interest groups that got them elected in the first place.

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

Re: Does the US Govt. fear its\' citizens?

Wow! Never in a Thousand years would I have DREAMED that myself and Xcal would agree on much of anything!

I don't neccesarily agree that "big corporations" are the whole problem. After all, Washington is a lot like an Iceberg... you can only see maybe 10%...

I think lobbyists and other beaurocrats are the biggest problem.

 

[X-CalBR8]

Re: Does the US Govt. fear its\' citizens?

PlayboyJoeShmoe said: "I think lobbyists and other beaurocrats are the biggest problem."

Yes, but who hires all of those lobbyists in the first place? The same corporations and special interest groups that got the politicians elected in the first place. I was just trying to take the problem all the way back to it's source which is the corporations and special interest groups.

BTW, I'm glad that we are pretty much in agreement on this. Now if only we could convince all of the other people in this country that are duped into believing that the current system is actually working in the best interest of the people. They are only helping to hold back change, and the people that are really in charge in this country are loving them for it.

 

[pedalinbob]

Re: Does the US Govt. fear its\' citizens?

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=2060

food for thought.

interpret it as you wish!

Bob

 

[X-CalBR8]

Re: Does the US Govt. fear its\' citizens?

@pedalinbob: Thanks for sharing the article, it does make for an interesting perspective, but after reading it, it seems pretty obvious that it was written with a heavy pro-republican slant to it, because the current republican agenda is to try to make everything look like it's good right now, even though it's really messed up. This is so that they can keep all 3 branches of government under their control. They know that if the public perceives things to be as bad as they really are right now, that it will go badly for them in the next election and their level of control will slip.

I could comment on just about every point that that article made because it uses a lot of half truths, but this thread is not really the place for it. All I can safely say, that hopefully won't start an argument here, is that things are not all peachy keen like that article makes them out to be and that we are in a very real recession, and it doesn't seem to me that we are coming out of it like the media is claiming now days. I'm still jobless from it, for one.

Remember, I'm saying all of this not as a democrat trying to persuade people to vote democrat, my desire is to see both the republicans and democrats tossed out on their ears for the mess that they have made of the country.

My whole life, I've watched the ping pong match in government where for a while republicans will control things and then people would get mad and elect them out and then democrats would control things for a while and then the public would get mad again and it would go back and forth again. While all of this time, the corporations which own *both* parties, through their massive campaign contributions, have just been laughing it up at all of our foolishness. They could care less *who* wins because they own both sides, and they know it.

I really wish that the public would altogether get fed up with both sides and try something new, but so long as the idea is perpetuated that if you vote for anyone that is neither republican or democrat, you are only "wasting your vote", we are doomed to just sit back and watch this ping pong match play out again and again and again until the whole country breaks under the strain, I fear.

 

[pedalinbob]

Re: Does the US Govt. fear its\' citizens?

the ping-pong match reference is a good one.

i wasnt trying to start anything, just adding food for discussion. there are a lot of ways to look at things, and half of the problem is in definition.

i guess i contradict myself when i say that i believe there are many people that are truly poor, and very much in need, but i dont think the numbers are as great as some make it out to be (due to rather loose definitions). yet, i definitely dont believe poverty isnt a problem.

i do wonder if there isnt a better way to deal with the problem--some unique solution that would make all sides happy.
just thinking out loud.

also, many of your statements are excellent!
admittedly, im not sure about the economy--i have done surprisingly well, but i think i may be a lucky one.
being in the health field, our jobs are much less affected by the economy.

and another thing: i also would love to see more choices politically. 2 choices just isnt enough.

Bob<--rambling, half-asleep...

 

[X-CalBR8]

Re: Does the US Govt. fear its\' citizens?

Pedalinbob, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that *you* were trying to start a fight or anything by posting that link, I was just afraid that something that I said in response to it might accidentally set off something and that was not my intention at all. Some people feel very strongly toward one political party or another and will defend them to the death if you say anything against them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I don't really understand this extreme level of loyalty that some people show toward one political party or another, but I do realize that it exist. I can assure anyone that feels this way that their politician of choice probably doesn't have that kind of loyalty for them (unless you are a major campaign contributor, that is).

I agree with you that some of the governments definitions of who is, or is not, at a poverty level may very well be messed up, just like the definitions of who the government classifies as "unemployed" are really messed up. I never knew till I took economics in college just how messed up those definitions really are. I'm not a betting person, but if I were, I would be willing to bet that politics are heavily involved in what officially gets defined as what in this country.

I also agree that the health care fields are much less affected by varying economic conditions. People are still going to get sick and need the same medical care no matter what the economy is like. It makes it a great field to be in. I'm considering changing directions and going into it myself just because of the job security. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[vcal]

Re: Does the US Govt. fear its\' citizens?

Pls xcuse OT a little, but....
X-Cal, speaking of job security-the security field itself is a worthy and wise choice, just as the health profession is, IMO

 

[X-CalBR8]

Re: Does the US Govt. fear its\' citizens?

vcal: Hmm... I hadn't considered that. I guess there would be the same need for security no matter what the economy was like.