Dorian SQCTP

[precisionworks]

I can't wait to get my finders fee check

As pricey as the Dorian is, it is really satisfying to use. Surprisingly, the Chinese holders lock up as solidly & repeat as well as the Dorian brand holders. You will really appreciate the engineering once you have a chance to use it.

 

[niner]

Would Dorian's Quadra Indexable tool post be overkill for home hobbyist?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Dorian-Quadra-T...QQptZBI_Tool_Work_Holding?hash=item4388dd907d

I was offered a kit at a good price, similar to the kit above. Looks really nice....

 

[unterhausen]

Would Dorian's Quadra Indexable tool post be overkill for home hobbyist?

there is no such thing as overkill when it comes to quality tools.

 

[wquiles]

there is no such thing as overkill when it comes to quality tools.

+1

When I bought the Bison 6", 6-jaw, set-tru chuck, the chuck was significantly more than the brand new 8x14 HF lathe that I used with the chuck - that was also overkill :devil:

 

[niner]

I forgot who I had directed my questions to. We are a bunch people paying over $500 for a flashlight:nana: Overkill? not a chance.

Let me ask the question differently. Is indexable tool post a useful feature? Or mounting 4 tool holders at the same time?

 

[unterhausen]

Are you paying a $500 premium so you can mount 4 tools at the same time? That might not be the best way to invest in tooling. Could speed up some projects though.

 

[wquiles]

Are you paying a $500 premium so you can mount 4 tools at the same time? That might not be the best way to invest in tooling. Could speed up some projects though.

+1

I think that in a CNC setup, where time is important, and where having the tool already there/adjusted/setup would potentially increase accuracy, then yes, having 4 tools already mounted would be of value. For us with a manual lathe, it would just be pure convenience, and in my opinion not worth the extra $500 premium. Just my 2 cents worth!

Then again, for pure convenience I have TWO of the Aloris 5C BXA Collet holders, so perhaps I should not be the one to give opinions here ...

 

[niner]

Will, being indexable, Quadra tool post can be set to one of 24 positions without re-indexing. How often do you need to set the tool holder at an angle other 90 degree?

You can tell I'm a newbie.

 

[wquiles]

Will, being indexable, Quadra tool post can be set to one of 24 positions without re-indexing. How often do you need to set the tool holder at an angle other 90 degree?

You can tell I'm a newbie.

Technically, every single time you do threading, and every time you need to cut a taper.

I am one of the few that cuts threads the "wrong way" and feed straight in (not at 29.5 Deg) so unless cutting a taper, my tool post is most always at the 90 Deg position :nana:

 

[unterhausen]

my toolpost is always at 90 degrees because Phase II included a defective bolt that was just a hair too long and I had to rig it somehow to even tighten down so it wouldn't rotate. I should have sent the whole thing back, but I wanted to cut metal. I suppose I could machine a washer now that I have a toolpost...

 

[precisionworks]

Quadra tool post can be set to one of 24 positions

Sometimes it's nice to be able to get the point into an odd angle without changing tools, but grabbing the breaker bar behing the lathe takes only about 10 seconds to do the same thing.

 

[precisionworks]

One little problem

The SQCTP is taller than the Aloris piston it replaces ... so some of the inserted tools would not go low enough to reach center height:

I couldn't find longer set screws in my big town of 5000, but figured McMaster would stock those. While on their website, it seemed like this would be the time to eliminate the hex nut used to lock the adjusting disc. IMO, trying to jam a wrench turned hex nut against a hand held disc is problematic at best. McMaster also had the threaded locking collars. This arrangement works much better

The holder block is Best of China, but it works, sort of. The 3/8-24 set screw is a sloppy fit in the threaded hole, so the gap was filled with LocTite. This should hold until a few Aloris & Dorian blocks can be found on eBay.

 

[wquiles]

Re: One little problem

The SQCTP is taller than the Aloris piston it replaces ... so some of the inserted tools would not go low enough to reach center height:

I couldn't find longer set screws in my big town of 5000, but figured McMaster would stock those. While on their website, it seemed like this would be the time to eliminate the hex nut used to lock the adjusting disc. IMO, trying to jam a wrench turned hex nut against a hand held disc is problematic at best. McMaster also had the threaded locking collars. This arrangement works much better

The holder block is Best of China, but it works, sort of. The 3/8-24 set screw is a sloppy fit in the threaded hole, so the gap was filled with LocTite. This should hold until a few Aloris & Dorian blocks can be found on eBay.

Clever solution

I also found the fit/finish, specially the screw/threads very questionable on my China-made holders, but they kind of work OK, so I stick to them. If I had more time, I would make my own.

Besides a more premium steel like 4140, what other choices do I have for material to make more of my own holders?

 

[precisionworks]

what other choices do I have for material to make more of my own holders?

The four screws that secure the insert holder are under as much compression as can be applied with an allen wrench. Because of the large dovetail recess on the rear of the block, there is little material left between the dovetail & the "back" side of the insert holder. A harder & tougher material (like 4140 pre hardended, or 4144 pre hardened) holds up better in the threaded clamp screw holes, and can be made thinner behind the dovetail.

Any steel would work, even plain jane hot rolled A36. The problem with low carbon structural steels like A36 is their high ductility - almost 30% - which is why they are ideal for boilers & vessels. When someone specs "boiler plate" they usually mean A36. Steels with high ductility produce long stringy chips that don't want to break, so deep hole drilling is a PITA.

Cold rolled 1018 has half the elongation of A36, which sounds better. But 1018 comes chocked full of unrelieved stresses from the cold rolling process, and as the tools cuts away some of the metal the stresses start to release. You end up with parts that are way out of spec & a high scrap ratio. It also costs more than A36.

If you plan to make something that will be used for a few years or longer, you might as well use the best material available at a reasonable cost. The pre hardened chrome moly steels are an nice combination of adequate hardness (HrC 26-30) and decent machinability. You cannot fly through them like a leaded steel (12L14 or 1144) but you will end up with a material that won't cause problems now or later.

 

[darkzero]

Re: One little problem

This should hold until a few Aloris & Dorian blocks can be found on eBay.

Try contacting Michael @ precisionspin (guy who sells the DTM stuff on ebay). Judging by the quality of the TP I have no doubt the holders are of equivilent quality to Aloris & Dorian.

He's a very nice person & has a pretty good stock on DTM accessories. At the time he only had two of the standard AXA holders (H65-1A) but has the oversized AXA holders (H65-1EA) that will accept 5/8 tools. If you email him he will send you a list of his current inventory & prices. His prices are great & also offers quantity discounts (did for me). I ended up only getting the TP from him as I changed to BXA now because of the lathe change but I may just get some stuff from him too.

MSC's having a pretty good offer this black Friday, may be a good time to get some? I know I'm definitely going to take advantage.

 

[precisionworks]

MSC's having a pretty good offer this black Friday, may be a good time to get some?

I just added a $90 Aloris block to my cart, entered the code, got the screen message that the code had been applied, and the final price was
........ $90 :thumbsdow

 

[darkzero]

I just added a $90 Aloris block to my cart, entered the code, got the screen message that the code had been applied, and the final price was
........ $90 :thumbsdow

I'm not surprised. Before I made the decision of getting the larger lathe & I was on a spending spree I tried to order some AXA holders from MSC & the discount wouldn't apply to them. In fact the discount wouldn't apply to any of the Dorian, Aloris, or DTM tool posts, sets, or holders. That's when I contacted Michael at Precisionspin & learned about his nice prices. Luckily it didn't since I now have the Dorian BXA TP.

Today's sale at MSC was a good one, up to 30% off plus free shipping when purchasing 3 or more different items over $99. Well just before ordering I checked Enco for the same items & with only a 15% discount for over $99 I ended paying almost $40 cheaper with shipping than if I was to buy from MSC. Enco also has a free shipping code posted but it wouldn't stack with today's sale code but that's ok.

At Enco the discount does apply to Aloris holders but they don't carry Dorian holders if needed. Ends at 11pm ET but the free shipping offer is good until the end of the year.

I'll stick with the China holders for now. Besides CDCO & Shars what's another place to get the China holders that aren't too shabby?

 

[precisionworks]

what's another place to get the China holders that aren't too shabby?

According to a friend who imports quite a lot of Chinese tooling, the unpredictability of quality is frustrating. This is what he said:

A small percentage of tooling (as well as machine tools) is built in factories that are compliant with ISO 9001:2008 quality management systems, which assures high quality products ... but priced too high for USA consumption. The remainder of products can vary in quality from first rate to awful.

Imagine a factory with almost zero quality control - no master gages, thread gages, comparators, etc. Mics and calipers without recent calibration certs, used with older machinery with lots of worn parts, on reprocessed metals with variable composition. If all these errors are stacked, parts are made that that do not fit established standards, like the 3/8-24 threaded hole mentioned by both myself & wquiles.

None of that answers your question, but it does explain some of the variability.

 

[darkzero]

Thanks to Travers, the helpful engineer at Dorian, & with the help of Barry, I finally got the "correct" TP on Wed. To my surprise it was dropped shipped directly Dorian but it was supposed to go to my local Travers for will call.

The TP Travers had in stock was the old style, it was red but had the wedges that moved in & out rather than up & down like the new ones. The people at Travers had no idea what I was talking about. So as Barry suggested I called Dorian, the CS girls had no idea what I was talking about either. I even told them that it was confusing since the part numbers are the same for both style TPs then the lady doubted me even more. To my surprise she suggested that I talked to one of their engineers which totally caught off guard. The engineer new exactly what I was talking about of course & was very helpful.

As Barry mentioned, I also like the fact that the locking handle can be oriented in any angle the user desires. Can't wait to use it.


The old one:

The new one:

Notice the larger ring up top

 

[wquiles]

Nice!

One of these days I might have one as well - hey, I can always dream, right? :naughty: