Ebay Dispute on L6, need advice from experienced users.
- Thread starter Telkin
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Telkin
Enlightened
Re: Scammed on Ebay on an L6, need advice from experienced users.
All 4 dies still work, I'm using primiarys. I'm just unhappy about the crap and scratches in the reflector. That and it was supposed to be NIB. The Body and tailcap are in excellent condition though.
I think my best course of action is to go through surefire since I don't want to send it back for a refund. If I leave a negative, I'm definitely getting one back. I'll call them tomorrow and see what they can do for me.
All 4 dies still work, I'm using primiarys. I'm just unhappy about the crap and scratches in the reflector. That and it was supposed to be NIB. The Body and tailcap are in excellent condition though.
I think my best course of action is to go through surefire since I don't want to send it back for a refund. If I leave a negative, I'm definitely getting one back. I'll call them tomorrow and see what they can do for me.
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Handlobraesing
Banned
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2006
- Messages
- 2,724
Re: Scammed on Ebay on an L6, need advice from experienced users.
In the states, you ship it back UPS Ground or USPS Signature Confirmation, but proof of delivery gets sticky with across the border shipments.
In the states, you ship it back UPS Ground or USPS Signature Confirmation, but proof of delivery gets sticky with across the border shipments.
Bullzeyebill
Flashaholic
Re: Scammed on Ebay on an L6, need advice from experienced users.
You say you used 3.0 volt RCR123's at start. Probably did not hurt L6 as CR123's fresh can start out at 3.25 volts and L6 is good for four CR123's, so L6 must have ability to handle at least 13+ volts.
Don't expect miracles from an L6, particularly and older model L6. I recently purchased a pre-owned unused L6 and output was no where near output of my new model KL5. I had CM upgrade the emiter and bias.
Bill
You say you used 3.0 volt RCR123's at start. Probably did not hurt L6 as CR123's fresh can start out at 3.25 volts and L6 is good for four CR123's, so L6 must have ability to handle at least 13+ volts.
Don't expect miracles from an L6, particularly and older model L6. I recently purchased a pre-owned unused L6 and output was no where near output of my new model KL5. I had CM upgrade the emiter and bias.
Bill
LumenHound
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Scammed on Ebay on an L6, need advice from experienced users.
If you do have to return it to the vendor make sure you use Canada Post Expedited Parcel shipping as it features online delivery confirmation. Save a copy of the page showing delivery confirmation just in case the vendor claims they never got it. It will act as your proof should it become needed later.
Never, ever, return an item via a shipping method that doesn't offer delivery confirmation.
Canada Post and the USPS have a strong reciprocal agreement in place so cross border delivery confirmation to the US works pretty well.
If you do have to return it to the vendor make sure you use Canada Post Expedited Parcel shipping as it features online delivery confirmation. Save a copy of the page showing delivery confirmation just in case the vendor claims they never got it. It will act as your proof should it become needed later.
Never, ever, return an item via a shipping method that doesn't offer delivery confirmation.
Canada Post and the USPS have a strong reciprocal agreement in place so cross border delivery confirmation to the US works pretty well.
fnmag
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Scammed on Ebay on an L6, need advice from experienced users.
What is the Ebay item number for this Surefire L6 sale?
What is the Ebay item number for this Surefire L6 sale?
oldgrandpajack
Enlightened
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2003
- Messages
- 931
Re: Scammed on Ebay on an L6, need advice from experienced users.
Looking at the photo of the L6's box, I don't see any reason for jumping to the conclusion the L6 isn't new. Let me explain.
The Surefire box, used for the L6, is a universal box. It's also used to ship the M3, M3T, M4, and M6. Note the perferations under the hole where the tail cap was. That allows the cardboard insert's use with the M6. The bezel end of the cardboard insert also has perferations, to allow it's use with the larger diameter (2.5") KT4 Bezel of the M3T, M4, and M6. The smaller diameter L6 bezel is relatively heavy, and during shipping, it bounces around in the box. Makes it appear as if it could be a used light, because of the condition of the cardboard insert. I've seen several, brand new and factory sealed Surefire L6's, and the boxes often look similar to the one pictured above. Surefire definately needs to redisign their packaging for the L6.
Now, concerning the scratches in the reflector, and debris inside the bezel. Unfortunately, I've seen posts in the past, of complaints by CPF members receiving brand new Surefire flashlights, with the same probems. This is a Surefire quality control problem.
I have received a lot of Surefire flashlights and parts from Chris. Never had a problem with anything. I think what you have here, is terrible box design, and a quality control issue with Surefire.
oldgrandpajack
Looking at the photo of the L6's box, I don't see any reason for jumping to the conclusion the L6 isn't new. Let me explain.
The Surefire box, used for the L6, is a universal box. It's also used to ship the M3, M3T, M4, and M6. Note the perferations under the hole where the tail cap was. That allows the cardboard insert's use with the M6. The bezel end of the cardboard insert also has perferations, to allow it's use with the larger diameter (2.5") KT4 Bezel of the M3T, M4, and M6. The smaller diameter L6 bezel is relatively heavy, and during shipping, it bounces around in the box. Makes it appear as if it could be a used light, because of the condition of the cardboard insert. I've seen several, brand new and factory sealed Surefire L6's, and the boxes often look similar to the one pictured above. Surefire definately needs to redisign their packaging for the L6.
Now, concerning the scratches in the reflector, and debris inside the bezel. Unfortunately, I've seen posts in the past, of complaints by CPF members receiving brand new Surefire flashlights, with the same probems. This is a Surefire quality control problem.
I have received a lot of Surefire flashlights and parts from Chris. Never had a problem with anything. I think what you have here, is terrible box design, and a quality control issue with Surefire.
oldgrandpajack
Pydpiper
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Scammed on Ebay on an L6, need advice from experienced users.
The combination of the tattered box and bad light would make the average guy think he has been duped, I would have thought the same.
After reading this post I can't help but think that an honest mistake has been made. If Oldgrandpajack says the guy is a stand up dealer I would be HIGHLY inclined to believe him, all of my Surefires have come from him.
oldgrandpajack said:
The combination of the tattered box and bad light would make the average guy think he has been duped, I would have thought the same.
After reading this post I can't help but think that an honest mistake has been made. If Oldgrandpajack says the guy is a stand up dealer I would be HIGHLY inclined to believe him, all of my Surefires have come from him.
Telkin
Enlightened
Re: Scammed on Ebay on an L6, need advice from experienced users.
The Item # is 250028682962
I haven't received a reply back yet from Chris_1, so no updates as of yet.
Well the biggest tell that I have that it was not a new item is that there is lint and dust all along the ridge of the surefire bezel. Kinda like grime that builds up on EDC lights that have been in your pocket for a long time.
Personally, I think everything about the light is new except the KL6. Looks like it was swapped for an older used one. The body and tailcap are the HA Dark Grey finish while the Bezel with a much lower serial # is the Goldeny type HA. Now I know you're going to tell me that colour difference is common and I agree just not to this degree. From Common sense, it's pretty obvious that this was used. I have bezels that I've carried for a months that look better than this bezel. If i put this light on B/S/T and advertised as new do you think my customer would be happy?
Anyway, I couldn't get a hold of Surefire this morning but I'm going to try again now to see what they can do for me.
The Item # is 250028682962
I haven't received a reply back yet from Chris_1, so no updates as of yet.
Well the biggest tell that I have that it was not a new item is that there is lint and dust all along the ridge of the surefire bezel. Kinda like grime that builds up on EDC lights that have been in your pocket for a long time.
Personally, I think everything about the light is new except the KL6. Looks like it was swapped for an older used one. The body and tailcap are the HA Dark Grey finish while the Bezel with a much lower serial # is the Goldeny type HA. Now I know you're going to tell me that colour difference is common and I agree just not to this degree. From Common sense, it's pretty obvious that this was used. I have bezels that I've carried for a months that look better than this bezel. If i put this light on B/S/T and advertised as new do you think my customer would be happy?
Anyway, I couldn't get a hold of Surefire this morning but I'm going to try again now to see what they can do for me.
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Telkin
Enlightened
Re: Scammed on Ebay on an L6, need advice from experienced users.
Just spoke with Surefire.
They said they would take a look at it and analyze the light and clean it.
Wierd thing is that they would not give me an RMA# and didn't take my address just told me to send it back. I've called once before with a broken tailcap and I got an RMA.
Just spoke with Surefire.
They said they would take a look at it and analyze the light and clean it.
Wierd thing is that they would not give me an RMA# and didn't take my address just told me to send it back. I've called once before with a broken tailcap and I got an RMA.
RemingtonBPD
Enlightened
Re: Scammed on Ebay on an L6, need advice from experienced users.
Whoooaaa slow down...
A. Chris is on a camping trip for the weekend, so he has obviously not received the email.
B. I know and deal with Chris and can assure you he will do what he can to make right on the problem.
I have in the past also sold/purchased Surefires that were from Chris and never had a problem. Give him a chance to get back to you before you take advise from others filing fraud complaints, stopping credit card payments, and alerting the media.
Whoooaaa slow down...
A. Chris is on a camping trip for the weekend, so he has obviously not received the email.
B. I know and deal with Chris and can assure you he will do what he can to make right on the problem.
I have in the past also sold/purchased Surefires that were from Chris and never had a problem. Give him a chance to get back to you before you take advise from others filing fraud complaints, stopping credit card payments, and alerting the media.
Telkin
Enlightened
Re: Scammed on Ebay on an L6, need advice from experienced users.
I haven't taken any action other than calling surefire so I'll wait on his return and see what remedy he can offer. Thanks for listening everyone.
I haven't taken any action other than calling surefire so I'll wait on his return and see what remedy he can offer. Thanks for listening everyone.
Brighteyez
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Scammed on Ebay on an L6, need advice from experienced users.
Why should he take the word of someone who knows and has actually done business with the seller, over the wisdom of people who haven't a clue? :lolsign:
Looks like you jumped in at just the right moment there. Good catch!
Though given the sleeziness of many eBay merchants, and the various other scammers on the web, I can't say that some of the kneejerk reactions weren't entirely unwarranted.
Why should he take the word of someone who knows and has actually done business with the seller, over the wisdom of people who haven't a clue? :lolsign:
Looks like you jumped in at just the right moment there. Good catch!
Though given the sleeziness of many eBay merchants, and the various other scammers on the web, I can't say that some of the kneejerk reactions weren't entirely unwarranted.
RemingtonBPD said:
kakster
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Scammed on Ebay on an L6, need advice from experienced users.
Why is this thread in the Cafe, and not in Cheers n Jeers?
Why is this thread in the Cafe, and not in Cheers n Jeers?
Brighteyez
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Scammed on Ebay on an L6, need advice from experienced users.
Because it is neither a Cheer nor a Jeer?
And while it may seem cold and uncaring, I personally have no sympathy for people who go to places like eBay, expecting to get something for nothing, and they whining about it when they've been cheated as a result of their own greed.
Because it is neither a Cheer nor a Jeer?
And while it may seem cold and uncaring, I personally have no sympathy for people who go to places like eBay, expecting to get something for nothing, and they whining about it when they've been cheated as a result of their own greed.
kakster said:
Telkin
Enlightened
Re: Scammed on Ebay on an L6, need advice from experienced users.
Well you should think about places like CPF B/S/T then as well as eBay, it is afterall just another commom marketplace where people do expect to find items at lower than cost from the manufacturer.
And before you classify all those on ebay as greedy, you should think that there aren't that many places in Canada that carry the full selection of lights that Surefire provides. Especially at reasonable prices. Not all of the members here ship to Canada. I wish I could call up surefire and put in an order or place an order with one of the dealers here but they are not allowed to export to Canada.
Well you should think about places like CPF B/S/T then as well as eBay, it is afterall just another commom marketplace where people do expect to find items at lower than cost from the manufacturer.
And before you classify all those on ebay as greedy, you should think that there aren't that many places in Canada that carry the full selection of lights that Surefire provides. Especially at reasonable prices. Not all of the members here ship to Canada. I wish I could call up surefire and put in an order or place an order with one of the dealers here but they are not allowed to export to Canada.
Brighteyez said:
Re: Scammed on Ebay on an L6, need advice from experienced users.
1. This isn't about sympathy. I personally am a seller as well as a buyer and have never gone to ebay to either get something for nothing, nor have I made a killing on things I've sold... if anything I've come up short on selling some times..and other times came out ahead, though not a great deal.
As a buyer, I go there to get something I can't find where I am (united kingdom, where there are no luxuries of proper shops and when you do find something worth having you really pay out the nose for it, (consider it costing you double over here)... and there are no gun shops, not many outdoor shops...certainly no where to get good quality merchandise at a reasonable cost.
As a seller, I put listings on there such as hard to get items and collectibles as well as every day useful things. It's better than a crappy flea market, or yard sale... and you are certain to sell the things to someone who needs or wants it rather than being unable to get rid of something you aren't using.
Yes, there are those who expect to get something for nothing, but you can say the same for gambling.... if it sounds too good to be true it probably is: however, you do have some who seem to be lucky.
What's messed up though is when you have someone that buys something, and pays the sellers price, the postage, at a close to retail cost after it's all added up and then the item is nothing as it was listed and/ or is completely useless. How can you call that greed? Well.... you could call it greed but I'd say the buyer has been done over and deserves a bit of sympathy and the seller should have to make it right.
Brighteyez said:
1. This isn't about sympathy. I personally am a seller as well as a buyer and have never gone to ebay to either get something for nothing, nor have I made a killing on things I've sold... if anything I've come up short on selling some times..and other times came out ahead, though not a great deal.
As a buyer, I go there to get something I can't find where I am (united kingdom, where there are no luxuries of proper shops and when you do find something worth having you really pay out the nose for it, (consider it costing you double over here)... and there are no gun shops, not many outdoor shops...certainly no where to get good quality merchandise at a reasonable cost.
As a seller, I put listings on there such as hard to get items and collectibles as well as every day useful things. It's better than a crappy flea market, or yard sale... and you are certain to sell the things to someone who needs or wants it rather than being unable to get rid of something you aren't using.
Yes, there are those who expect to get something for nothing, but you can say the same for gambling.... if it sounds too good to be true it probably is: however, you do have some who seem to be lucky.
What's messed up though is when you have someone that buys something, and pays the sellers price, the postage, at a close to retail cost after it's all added up and then the item is nothing as it was listed and/ or is completely useless. How can you call that greed? Well.... you could call it greed but I'd say the buyer has been done over and deserves a bit of sympathy and the seller should have to make it right.
Re: Scammed on Ebay on an L6, need advice from experienced users.
Sorry about the above post... had to clear my thoughts as I don't like it when some think it's funny when others have bad experiences. I've been done myself a few times but I think it's one of those things that you have to use your gut feeling.
I would take Remingtons word as well as grandpa jack... I don't know this fellow but if you received something that was 'significantly not as described' then contact the seller first and see what response you get.
Don't leave any feedback until all avenues have been pursued. Certainly don't have the cc company to do a chargeback, this can come back and bite you in the rear later....Unless of course you never received an item. It is better though to go paypal, provided you paid by paypal. Always give the seller a reasonable opportunity to make it right, and use paypals time limitations to your advantage. Usually in most cases and you go about it the right way, paypal will rule in favor of the buyer... whether the seller likes it or not. Also always send your merchandise to where they have to sign for it to get it so that there is proof you sent it.
Sorry about the above post... had to clear my thoughts as I don't like it when some think it's funny when others have bad experiences. I've been done myself a few times but I think it's one of those things that you have to use your gut feeling.
I would take Remingtons word as well as grandpa jack... I don't know this fellow but if you received something that was 'significantly not as described' then contact the seller first and see what response you get.
Don't leave any feedback until all avenues have been pursued. Certainly don't have the cc company to do a chargeback, this can come back and bite you in the rear later....Unless of course you never received an item. It is better though to go paypal, provided you paid by paypal. Always give the seller a reasonable opportunity to make it right, and use paypals time limitations to your advantage. Usually in most cases and you go about it the right way, paypal will rule in favor of the buyer... whether the seller likes it or not. Also always send your merchandise to where they have to sign for it to get it so that there is proof you sent it.
Illum
Flashaholic
Re: Scammed on Ebay on an L6, need advice from experienced users.
I think this seller knew it all along...
If you browse around ebay, most of the surefire NIBs are pictured with the top of the package, assuring you that the box has not been opened, notice on
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...=250028682962+&category0=&Submit=Search&fvi=1
the L6 box is shot on a side angle, hiding the ripped part
some sellers whose selling the hold styled boxes have two pics, one showing the Surefire label and the common one from the top of the box with lid removed.:huh:
Thanks for the heads up...scratch one seller
I think this seller knew it all along...
If you browse around ebay, most of the surefire NIBs are pictured with the top of the package, assuring you that the box has not been opened, notice on
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...=250028682962+&category0=&Submit=Search&fvi=1
the L6 box is shot on a side angle, hiding the ripped part
some sellers whose selling the hold styled boxes have two pics, one showing the Surefire label and the common one from the top of the box with lid removed.:huh:
Thanks for the heads up...scratch one seller
