good inserts in CCMT 21.5* and DCMT 21.5* sizes?

wquiles

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I got some new lathe tools from M100 and they use the CCMT 21.5* and DCMT 21.5* insert size. My usual supplier of Al-specific inserts (www.latheinserts.com) does not have them in this small size - any other suppliers?

Besides the Al-specific, what would be a good insert grade in these sizes for soft metals (Al, Copper) and Mild Steel?

Will
 
Will,

what is a major difference between CCMT and DCMT.
When it is better to use one vs. another

The corner angle on a CCMT insert is 80 degrees where as with DCMT it is 55 degrees, the DCMT has a sharper angled corner than CCMT which means you can use it for profiling, it will go into places that a CCMT insert will not. Conversely, the fact that it is thinner and sharper means that it is not as strong as a CCMT insert.
 
Will,

what is a major difference between CCMT and DCMT.
When it is better to use one vs. another

The shape is different, and therefore not compatible - you need different tool holders for each type. The first letter of the insert tells you the shape, as you can see here:
http://www.anconline.com/nomenclatures/nomenclatureinsert1.htm

And for specific examples from Ebay:

ccmt 21.51:
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=ccmt+21.51&_sacat=See-All-Categories


dcmt 21.51:
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=dcmt+21.51&_sacat=See-All-Categories


Will
 
I got some new lathe tools from M100 and they use the CCMT 21.5* and DCMT 21.5* insert size. My usual supplier of Al-specific inserts (www.latheinserts.com) does not have them in this small size - any other suppliers?

Besides the Al-specific, what would be a good insert grade in these sizes for soft metals (Al, Copper) and Mild Steel?

Will

Rani Tool has some CCGT and DCGT in those sizes. These come either coated or uncoated. I just bought some uncoated DCGT 21.51 $8.21 each for ten pieces. Haven't used these yet, but they look interesting, and a bit cheaper than the Sandvik ones that I like. :)
 
I

Besides the Al-specific, what would be a good insert grade in these sizes for soft metals (Al, Copper) and Mild Steel?

Will


In the last year, I seem to be using H10 for just about everything I machine.
Now I do very little machining on steel so can not comment on that.

Great in Al and Ti. Also SS.
For copper, I use an old real diamond tipped insert. Its kept just for copper and is perfect.
 
Thank you guys.
I do understand that CCMT and DCMT have different shape :) and need different holders.

What I really wanted to find out is something like this: "DCMT gives better finish(or worth) on unobtanium but will chatter if depth of the cut is more than 0.2" DCMT can be used with positive(or neutral) rake angle .... Do not use DCMT on more than 2000000 rpm..." etc.
 
Thank you guys.
I do understand that CCMT and DCMT have different shape :) and need different holders.

What I really wanted to find out is something like this: "DCMT gives better finish(or worth) on unobtanium but will chatter if depth of the cut is more than 0.2" DCMT can be used with positive(or neutral) rake angle .... Do not use DCMT on more than 2000000 rpm..." etc.

alexmin,

You think that we know that? :crackup:

If most of the guys are like me, we've learned from doing. For people like Precisionworks and a few others who are in the trade, they not only have learned by doing, but by studying also.

I would recommend that you contact your local Sandvik distributor and ask for a copy of their Small Parts Machining catalog, plus their catalog/book called Metalcutting Technical Guide. While it deals mainly with their tools and inserts, it has a wealth of information on cutting speeds, feeds, etc. All of which will be a bit overwhelming at first, but after the fifth reading, you may have learned a thing or two. :devil:
 
Ask any 10 machinists about their favorite insert & you are guaranteed to get 10 different answers ... much like defining "pretty woman", there are lots of variables :crackup:


toolselection.jpg


Enter all the data above & the answer pops out :)

That chart is located in
Metal cutting theory and practice (By David A. Stephenson, John S. Agapiou)

About $140 at bookstores, available on inter-library loan.

As Fred mentions, there is a lot of excellent material available from vendors. Sandvik is probably THE best for documentation. KennaMetal has a lot of online info. Vic at Rani Tool worked in a shop for 20+ years & is good at selecting shapes & coatings. Cutting Tool Engineering has a wealth of information, sometimes techie but often useful: http://www.cuttingtoolengineering.com/

Way back when, before eBay, carbide inserts were expensive & you got chewed out if you broke a corner at work. Now the manufacturers are hungry for business & give mill tooling & lathe tooling away for free if you commit to purchase enough inserts per year.

Information on inserts gets outdated rather quickly as new substrates are developed & as new coatings are brought to market. Coatings are the single biggest reason that inserts today can run at speeds & feeds that were thought impossible only 5 years ago.

Pick something that other people like, try that, add shapes as needed. Everybody want to settle on one shape & size, self included, but that's hard to do. Which is the reason that there are so many ANSI-ISO shapes.
 
Last edited:
You could always call me. :twothumbs Our Alu-Pro line is perfect for this.

Vic
Rani Tool Corp
888.554.7264
 
Vic,

Welcome to the forum! Hang around and drop an occasional tip, I am sure there are a bunch of guys here that will be calling for tooling! :whistle:
 
I got some new lathe tools from M100 and they use the CCMT 21.5* and DCMT 21.5* insert size. My usual supplier of Al-specific inserts (www.latheinserts.com) does not have them in this small size - any other suppliers?

Besides the Al-specific, what would be a good insert grade in these sizes for soft metals (Al, Copper) and Mild Steel?

Will

A while back I got these: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2991410&postcount=10

VP7615: Fine grain substrate. Primary application: Finishing and semi-finishing of aluminum and non-ferrous materials, continuous cuts. Secondary application: Finishing and semi-finishing of high temperature alloys, continuous cuts. Gold, application ValTurn.

I use them on the two smaller boring bars I got from you.

They were a great deal & the seller sold them for a while (ebay). I haven't checked to see if he's still selling them.
 
Just got off the phone talking to Vic, and ordered a pack of 10x for both the CCGT 21.51 and DCGT 21.51 Alu-Pro inserts :party:

Will
 
Please don't encourage Will. I honestly believe that he wears his camera 24/7/365 :nana:

Not quite 24/7/365, but almost 100% of the time that I am in the shop, my camera is there on one of the work benches. Taking pictures to document what I am doing is well beyond second nature to me - in fact, it feels weird to me if I am working in my "shop" without my camera - like something is missing :candle:
 
That's a good question ... it LOOKS like a PCD tipped insert, but I've never seen any PCD for much under $40-$50 each:

http://americas.kyocera.com/kicc/pdf/Brochure-FlyerKPD001.pdf

http://www.kyocera.com.sg/products/cuttingtools/pdf/e-d_kpd001.pdf

When are these inserts useful?
For most any material that's nonferrous, especially if that material is highly abrasive to conventional carbide or ceramic inserts. Under some cutting conditions, PCD life is 100X greater than the best coated carbide insert.

pcd.jpg


Also notice the sfpm, roughly 300% higher than carbide :thumbsup:
 
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