HDS EDC.... worth it?

[Billson]

I have not been following HDS threads completely. Thanks for a great thread link.

I am still reading through the thread. However, I have some questions for you
1) HDS Claims Luxeons are running at Spec i.e. 700 mA, isnt it? why is it that your observations different? Edit: Being Careful
2) Have you measured the Current at Max? if not why not?

AFAIK, running the Lux at 1A is still within spec. It just shortens the life from 50,000 to 20,000 but the EDC does its best to prolong this degradation with its thermal protection so it steps down when a certain temperature threashold is reached. I haven't yet read Henry say what the max current is that they use during calibration.

I haven't measured the current because I don't have the means to so I just make a guess based on my experience with other lights. I do have a common denominator in that I used the same R123 cell.

 

[Billson]

Whoa there, Billson! Easy on the Amilite! :whoopin:

I have an Amilite, and I think it is the best SMALL CR123 light I own. What it offers that the HDS does not is tinyness!

Of course, I have an HDS EDC U60XRGT that I usually carry now - it is awesome, but if I were wearing a suit or for some other reason needed a smaller form factor, I would grab the Amilite.

Though, now that I think about it, if I were wearing a Speedo, I would probably grab my Arc aaa. Hmmm.... Now, if I were naked.... :eeew:

I wasn't trying to belittle the Amilite. I'm just saying there is no point of comparison other than the size like you said and of course it looks nicer than the EDC. In terms of price, the EDC is more expensive but IMO you get more value in comparison to the other lights.

When I go out at times that I need to be dressed up, I've often debated between carrying the EDC or the McLux-T but the EDC wins out more often because I think it's just more practical in every way not to mention I'd probably kill myself if I lost the McLux. At least I can always buy another EDC.

Now if you were naked, you'd probably hope there was no light at all. :nana:

 

[Ty_Bower]

AFAIK, running the Lux at 1A is still within spec...

Page 8 has the "Absolute Maximum Ratings". They specify a maximum forward current of 1000 mA.

http://lumileds.com/pdfs/DS45.PDF

 

[xochi]

AFAIK, running the Lux at 1A is still within spec. It just shortens the life from 50,000 to 20,000 but the EDC does its best to prolong this degradation with its thermal protection so it steps down when a certain temperature threashold is reached. I haven't yet read Henry say what the max current is that they use during calibration.

I haven't measured the current because I don't have the means to so I just make a guess based on my experience with other lights. I do have a common denominator in that I used the same R123 cell.

Yup!

And 500 ma pulsed current (like HDS EDC) is spec for the lux1.

Viren, I don't wanna add fuel to the fire but, there really isn't any light on the market that takes so much into condideration in its design for a luxeon driven light. There isn't, period, end of story. I don't know how different the Arc4 was but Henry was in on that too.

If you have a problem with the thermal management issue of the HDS light, Perhaps you'd reconsider your position if you found yourself some miles underground and knew you had to rely on the HDS should the poop hit the fan. The thermal management could be improved with Peltier cells or something like that but at this point the HDS is potted inside the heatsink, it is a beefy heatsink , it mates with both an aluminum reflector AND integrated aluminum bulkhead in the headtube. The heatsink meets the bulkhead with a very large vertical and horizontal interface with thermal compound . I for one really like the fact that if I set the light down to light a room, the light won't cook the LED! The weight of the HDS lights is part of the design to manage heat. Unless you manage to alter the laws of thermodynamics, the choice is underdive the light, intelligently manage the output by dropping the level according to temp or making the light bigger and heavier, or just cook the leds like some other american company that chose to make it's lights in China.

There are things to ***** about with the LED lights. But, if designed differently, there would still be things to whine about, they'd just be different things and different people would whine about them.

 

[ViReN]

Finally some truth. Viren, You really have some nerve announcing all of the negative things about the HDS flashlights while you do not even own one. Nor, I suspect have you ever even held one in your hands.

the bold part is true but not for long....

I Thank all who have participated in Defence of HDS. (it had happened with me for Fenix, Once was a Fenix Critic, same with Proton...)...now with HDS. I am sure some day I will buy one HDS, even though I dont need one .... and I believe, that day, HDS would have changed a lot, perhaps a S bin K2 Lux 350 in HDS EDC U42

time to save time & money now for Future HDS

Once Again, thanks to every one.

 

[Planterz]

Viren, I don't wanna add fuel to the fire but, there really isn't any light on the market that takes so much into condideration in its design for a luxeon driven light. There isn't, period, end of story. I don't know how different the Arc4 was but Henry was in on that too.

Yeah, that's the way I see it too. There will always be the Lottery, but Henry evens the odds more than any other manufacturer. The smaller makers like Don McLeish or Orb might take a lot of the variability by using specific LED bins, but Henry takes it a step further by individually programming each light to work with the individual LED it's mated with. It's not just putting only TWOJs into B42XRGTs and U60GTs and saving the TWOHs for the U60XRGTs, because even then there's variences in the LEDs. The T bin is 67-87 lumens. Any way you slice it, that's a whole lot of possible variation.

A Fenix L1T/L2T head will have a T bin, but how bright is it really? An Orb will have a TWAJ, but how bright is that T bin LED? Nice though they are, they're T bin lights all driven at the same levels, because each board is the same. Same thing for the largest manufacturer, Surefire.

HDS however takes all the brightness guesswork out of the picture by individually making each light identically bright. No other company can claim this. Nobody can come close. Well, the Indium Smart maybe. But these make HDS lights look cheap.

Actually, come to think of it, one light I know of does come pretty close to HDS in how smart the light is. That's the Light & Motion Vega cycling light. It uses PWM dimming, constant regulated output, 3 levels (+strobe), has thermal stepdown, battery conservation stepdown, battery shutdown to prevent overdischarge, and has built in charging circuitry. Not bad.

 

[ViReN]

AFAIK, running the Lux at 1A is still within spec. It just shortens the life from 50,000 to 20,000 but the EDC does its best to prolong this degradation with its thermal protection so it steps down when a certain temperature threashold is reached. I haven't yet read Henry say what the max current is that they use during calibration.

I haven't measured the current because I don't have the means to so I just make a guess based on my experience with other lights. I do have a common denominator in that I used the same R123 cell.

Thanks Billson,

I would not want a Flashlight Light with 20,000 Hours of LED Life to 70% brightness rather I would be more happy with 2000 Hours to 70%, but the light should have 60 Lumens for max amount of time. (just wondering, since HDS Configures individual Lights Electronically) may be such a configuration is possible.

Even if I use the light for 2 Hour per day, still a distant posibility, yet it should last much more than 2 years. Now considering 2 hour use per day how many of us use a light (apart from old Mag lights****) for more than 2 years anyway? Yes people still have year 2001 Arc AAA Premium's, but would they still use it or prefer to get a 2X bright light. Some would mod it with a new CS Led and then use it.

**** remember Lights Source (bulbs) are changable, Bodies are lasting much more than the Light Source. light source is saturated in brightness efficnency (incands) not the case with LED's yet.

True HDS cares more than what most would ever care for and with the Exponential growth in LED brightness, we are going to see much more improvement in months to come.

Now that I have Proton & I like it very much, (please do not take this as a negative thing) I am still trying to convince myself to get an HDS, HDS would obviously be my LONG Term investment. the Individually tuned thing is a disadvantage to me at this moment the reason for this is, in next couple of months and years, LED's are going to improve, where as If you look at a bigger picture, Electronics would be more of less the same. It has already reached 95+% in terms of efficiency. LED's are still at 30% (efficient) more or less.... would you/anyone disagree to this fact?

I would like to replace LED's once every 2 years.

when I came to CPF some time in 2004, SWOJ Lux 3 were good and TWOJ were Premiums. today, in 2006, TWOJ is good UXOJ is Premium 5mm Nichias have gone 2X brightness in 2 years!

 

[cave dave]

Unless you manage to alter the laws of thermodynamics, the choice is underdrive the light, intelligently manage the output by dropping the level according to temp or making the light bigger and heavier, or just cook the leds...

Well said. :thumbsup: I wish everyone understood that. The choice on CPF seems to be just to cook the LED's.

I wish I had HDS EDC U60 XRGT and the first thing I would do is to replace LED with UXOJ and during that Process...

Viren its pointless to spend the extra money for 60XRGT if you are going to replace the emitter and want max brightness. Why pay money for a better emitter if you are going to tear it out. The XR lights run at a lower current draw, so you would not maximize the brightness potential of the light if that was your goal.

Some might see Virens comments as somewhat useful. I have noticed that there are plenty of "perfectionists" on CPF who can't tolerate a blueish tint, or a spec of dust, or dimmer spot in the beam, and will get all bent out of shape about it. And well, maybe they should be warned that nothing is perfect, including some HDS light. Perhaps it will save them some grief. The fact is you can only asymptotically approach perfection but you can never obtain it, not to mention the costs go way up as you try to achieve it. This is what the economist call "diminishing value of return" and Japanese inspired philosophers might refer to as "Wabi-Sabi"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi_sabi

Henry at HDS says they do not "overdrive" the LED. He does not define anywhere what this means. I suspect it has little to do with current levels. I think as an engineer Henry defines overdriving the LED as driving the LED hard enough to permanently damage the LED (to within some spec). In the case of Luxeons its not the current but the heat that kills. HDS manages the heat by temperature sensing, auto dimming, and good design. You could theoretically drive the LED at 1500mA and as long as you never let it overheat, you would not be "overdriving" it.

Some of the numbers thrown out in CPF just don't make sense. A drive current of 350 mAh and a 1250mAh CR123 could easily drive a Luxeon I for 3 hrs and you would only get around 25 lumens.

I ran an HDS on a 750mAh RCR123 for 40 min, before the battery protection kicked in. Without considering efficiency losses in the battery or driver, that would imply a drive current around 1100mA. And that is an XR model that uses a lower drive current.

The only way I could see to improve the HDS EDC is to make it smaller in diameter and to add the momentary feature to the basic model. For my personal uses I don't like the huge jump between primary (10 lumens) and Max (42, 60 depending on model) and I think the low is too low. I should of spent the extra dough for the Ultimate, but the 42GTXR is a great deal right now. The ultimate models allow you to set your own levels.

 

[Hans]

For my personal uses I don't like the huge jump between primary (10 lumens) and Max (42, 60 depending on model) and I think the low is too low. I should of spent the extra dough for the Ultimate, but the 42GTXR is a great deal right now. The ultimate models allow you to set your own levels.

This is interesting. I've got both, an Ultimate 42 and a Basic 42, and there are two reasons why I prefer the Ultimate over the Basic: One is that I can program die Ultimate so that it comes on at the last selected light level, and the second that I can use lower settings for the secondary and the low level. I actually prefer "dim" lights in many situations, and the secondary and low levels on the Basic are a bit too bright for my purposes.

That said, the Basic is a fantastic light.

Hans

 

[bmstrong]

>>2. How do you know the led can't be replaced easily? Have you read my thread on how easily I did it and how many people consequently bought the bargain 42's for the sole purpose of trying out my experiment for themselves.

Now that's enough to make me pick one up, finally. As someone who's tried to find an excuse to pick one up time and time again but passed because I'd be stuck with the same LED...

Hmmmm. Very interesting.

 

[lightplay22]

I like the simplicity of my basic 42's because it meets most of my edc needs with a simple click. I'm waiting patiently/anxiously for the 85 or whatever is coming out next, which will probably take the place of the 42 in my pocket.

If 10 lumens are enough to meet my needs, then 60 lumens are not necessary. I would like the low setting to be a little lower than the basic and be able to get this level with one click. This makes the "ultimate" option worth it to me. However not quite perfect the basic 42 may be it is perfect for many of my flashlight needs.

I only ever use the high power just to make sure it works or on the rare occasion that I need it.

This sure has been a good discussion and again I will confirm that the HDS edc's are definately "worth it".

 

[brightnorm]

Does anyone know why Henry discontinued these lights? I wouldn't trade my Ultimate 60XR for anything.

EDC Ultimate 60 XR$190.00
Discontinued - check dealer stock: $190.0060 lumens maximum output with extended runtime. This flashlight provides a 50% longer minimum runtime at 60 lumens than the standard model.

EDC Ultimate 60 XR GT$210.00
Discontinued - check dealer stock: $210.00

Brightnorm

 

[Firebladz]

Does anyone know why Henry discontinued these lights? I wouldn't trade my Ultimate 60XR for anything.

EDC Ultimate 60 XR$190.00
Discontinued - check dealer stock: $190.0060 lumens maximum output with extended runtime. This flashlight provides a 50% longer minimum runtime at 60 lumens than the standard model.

EDC Ultimate 60 XR GT$210.00
Discontinued - check dealer stock: $210.00

Brightnorm

That's really stange because the U60 and U60GT are not discontinued???

 

[leukos]

Henry is downsizing the line-up to probably add some new offerings in the near future. As to why he is discontinuing the 42, xr, and xrgt models, my guess is that LEDs are improving and better performance is easier to come by.

 

[DownUnderLite]

I just recieved my U60XRGT today 6/22/06 after ordering on the 6/16/06. Only 6 days from the States to Australia. I'm very happy with the light. No Buzzing, no bulging button and consistant finish with no marks.

My light is #4425 so it would appear that all bugs have been ironed out.
Very white even light.

 

[brightnorm]

Great that you were still able to get a discontinued model. Where did you get it?

Brightnorm

 

[heathah]

I just checked and it looks like BatteryStation still has all of the HDSs in stock.

 

[Fringe]

Oh yeah, just picked one up at BS and you can't beat the FREE shipping and ten cells to boot. Should by it just for this. I ordered on Tues. and I should have it by tomoorrow. All ready for it with a Ti bezel. This close out is a for sure bet.

GET ONE>

 

[jarobi]

I received my second 42 XRGT (4,XXX). Compared to the first (2,XXX), it's not as perfect. Anodizing on the tail is gross, light is dimmer on all settings + a greenish tint (compared to the other HDS). One is for work (the whiter/brighter one) and one is for EDC other than work, so I swapped the tie dyed cap to the work light since the anodizing will be beaten from it in a year or so anyway. Not really a complaint, just observations. Both lights are excellent; one of them happens to be perfect.

 

[Walt175]

Free shipping? I was charged $9 for shipping on mine.
Mine also has anodizing problems, seems to be dimmer then it should be, and even though I got a GT it seems to have a green tint. Oh yeah, the button does protrude, so it wobbles when tailstanding.

Other then that it's a great light!

Oh yeah, just picked one up at BS and you can't beat the FREE shipping and ten cells to boot. Should by it just for this. I ordered on Tues. and I should have it by tomoorrow. All ready for it with a Ti bezel. This close out is a for sure bet.

GET ONE>