HDS Systems #23

ilikeguns40

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 8, 2022
Messages
1,460
Location
Western PA
After 5 minutes. Excellent temp and heat management on max brightness. I'd rather have a consistent 250 lumens with long runtime that's not over driving the LED than 1000+ lumens for a short period and pushing the temp and led
7923972C-6335-4357-A4B6-72B3926A5DAE.jpeg
 

Lights and Guns

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Dec 25, 2016
Messages
185
Location
New York
High output is definitely not going to happen. I don't know whether Henry chooses the limits based on Watts into the body/surface temp, purely LED temp, time on high, or what, but overdriving and letting it get burning hot are both no-nos. Malkoff has no such qualms. Unfortunately, lm/W has not been increasing much, over the last several years, and that's what it will take to get much higher outputs in HDS lights. Thing is, I can count the times I've needed >100lm for EDC on zero fingers. Generally, when it comes to that, I'm doing something specific, that I've had time to prepare for, so can grab another, bigger, light, that has more mass and surface area.

But, there are the lows, and programming. Few other factory lights can offer the level of customization you get with an HDS, and none of them are in the same ballpark, quality-wise, save maybe for the trickle of BOSSes (Lumintop and BLF drama comes to mind, plus the coarseness and hysteresis of most Hall-type rotaries). Malkoff, FI, has no programmability at all - maximum KISS.

Also, having owned and used both extensively, I have to give HDS an edge on toughness, over an MDC. Not that you should worry about the durability of one, it's just anazing how well my HDSes take - and deal - damage, like old Innovas.

Though, it's hard to beat the MDC pocket clip. McGizmo perfected it, and Malkoff offers it at a fraction of the cost, in a black HA that can aesthetically match various E-series heads. It's clear Henry is not a pocket clip guy, and HDSes would need a major redesign to implement that nice of one.
Yes, I agree fully with you that in general you don't need more than 100 lumens for any EDC task. (Though, this does also depend on the individual and what their "EDC tasks" really are.

For example, if you are a LEO who carries a firearm while you are off-duty (like me), the HDS "tactical" flashlight that is categorized as such for a LEO to carry on duty or off on HDS' website, still has a max output of only 250-325ish lumens, yes it is nice that it turns on at max output because that's what you would want in that type of scenario, however 300 lumens is still not good enough for a light in that role (not in modern times at least). Back in the day (15-20 years ago or so) guys used to get away with 50-200 lumen range. But today that's unnecessary, why give yourself that disadvantage? Other companies are more appealing for this role at least, such as malkoff and modlite.

For example modlite offers a small 18350 handheld option, with around 1300 lumens and 54k CD. After studying some charts/tests done, the light sustains roughly 1,050 lumens for the entire first 5 minutes the light is on, then drops down to roughly 700 lumens for the following 2 minutes and then finally at about the 7/8 minute mark finds its place at about 435(ish) lumens for the remainder of the cells life. With that said, usually a "tactical" type of encounter off duty specifically will generally be finished well within that 5 minute mark. So instead of 250 we just 4x's the amount of light we have to work with.

With that said, for years I've wanted an HDS, contemplated grabbing one just for an EDC role/task but I really cant see myself carrying (2) lights, 1 dedicated EDC and 1 dedicated "tactical". Just too much space and heft and I know I'd end up just leaving the HDS at home.

Granted I've pulled out the modlite countless times for general EDC tasks including changing my vehicles tire, and REALLY wished I had another light with me with a lower mode. Hence why I came back to see if HDS finally bumped up their numbers at all. Unfortunately they didn't. So I guess my dream of owning one will need to continue to be put in the back burner! -- With that said, I think the HDS (especially with the rotary option would be an amazing choice for purely an EDC light without the gun-fighting aspect thrown in the mix).

Anyway, take care and thanks for chiming in!...

Love talking lights and the philosophy behind their use!
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 16, 2020
Messages
967
…HDSes would need a major redesign to implement that nice of one.

645E8BA7-C4C4-49EA-8C8F-BD532EA8FC18.jpeg


This option wouldn't really need a major re-design. There's already a small hole that goes through to the body compartment for the stop screw. Instead of drilling and tapping for that one, two holes (one additional) could be drilled and tapped for a screw on clip. The clip still allows for all 24 modes and acts as a stop for the rotary dial. Hole pattern and screws are McGizmo spacing and size.
 

thermal guy

Flashaholic
Joined
Jan 28, 2007
Messages
9,996
Location
ny
After 5 minutes. Excellent temp and heat management on max brightness. I'd rather have a consistent 250 lumens with long runtime that's not over driving the LED than 1000+ lumens for a short period and pushing the temp and led View attachment 38991
After 5 minutes. Excellent temp and heat management on max brightness. I'd rather have a consistent 250 lumens with long runtime that's not over driving the LED than 1000+ lumens for a short period and pushing the temp and led
After 5 minutes. Excellent temp and heat management on max brightness. I'd rather have a consistent 250 lumens with long runtime that's not over driving the LED than 1000+ lumens for a short period and pushing the temp and led View attachment 38991
IR doesn't like shiny things real hard to set the emissivity. try putting a piece of black electrical tape on it To get a corrected temperature.
 

desert.snake

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
May 8, 2017
Messages
2,064
Location
Eastern Europe
After 5 minutes. Excellent temp and heat management on max brightness. I'd rather have a consistent 250 lumens with long runtime that's not over driving the LED than 1000+ lumens for a short period and pushing the temp and led View attachment 38991
Do you have accurate measurements? Somehow a bit too much, mine did not heat up more than 42 degrees Celsius. Could you measure on the black part of the lantern? Shiny surfaces sometimes give incorrect results. Can wrap it with paper tape, which is used to insulate windows. Paper has a higher emissivity than polished steel. I once tried to measure the temperature of a titanium polished lantern, the pyrometer gave me different results until I wrapped it with tape
 

thermal guy

Flashaholic
Joined
Jan 28, 2007
Messages
9,996
Location
ny
Do you have accurate measurements? Somehow a bit too much, mine did not heat up more than 42 degrees Celsius. Could you measure on the black part of the lantern? Shiny surfaces sometimes give incorrect results. Can wrap it with paper tape, which is used to insulate windows. Paper has a higher emissivity than polished steel. I once tried to measure the temperature of a titanium polished lantern, the pyrometer gave me different results until I wrapped it with tape
beat you to it😂😂
 

ilikeguns40

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 8, 2022
Messages
1,460
Location
Western PA
It was fairly cool while I was taking these temps, so in hot weather the temp will obviously increase. Basically these lights do not get hot at all. I've ran in for long periods of time in my conditioned house and it got a little warm, but no warmer than just holding a piece of metal in your hands for a long period of time and reading that temp
 

cerbie

Enlightened
Joined
Feb 28, 2006
Messages
556
Yes, I agree fully with you that in general you don't need more than 100 lumens for any EDC task. (Though, this does also depend on the individual and what their "EDC tasks" really are.

For example, if you are a LEO who carries a firearm while you are off-duty (like me), the HDS "tactical" flashlight that is categorized as such for a LEO to carry on duty or off on HDS' website, still has a max output of only 250-325ish lumens, yes it is nice that it turns on at max output because that's what you would want in that type of scenario, however 300 lumens is still not good enough for a light in that role (not in modern times at least). Back in the day (15-20 years ago or so) guys used to get away with 50-200 lumen range. But today that's unnecessary, why give yourself that disadvantage? Other companies are more appealing for this role at least, such as malkoff and modlite.

For example modlite offers a small 18350 handheld option, with around 1300 lumens and 54k CD. After studying some charts/tests done, the light sustains roughly 1,050 lumens for the entire first 5 minutes the light is on, then drops down to roughly 700 lumens for the following 2 minutes and then finally at about the 7/8 minute mark finds its place at about 435(ish) lumens for the remainder of the cells life. With that said, usually a "tactical" type of encounter off duty specifically will generally be finished well within that 5 minute mark. So instead of 250 we just 4x's the amount of light we have to work with.

With that said, for years I've wanted an HDS, contemplated grabbing one just for an EDC role/task but I really cant see myself carrying (2) lights, 1 dedicated EDC and 1 dedicated "tactical". Just too much space and heft and I know I'd end up just leaving the HDS at home.

Granted I've pulled out the modlite countless times for general EDC tasks including changing my vehicles tire, and REALLY wished I had another light with me with a lower mode. Hence why I came back to see if HDS finally bumped up their numbers at all. Unfortunately they didn't. So I guess my dream of owning one will need to continue to be put in the back burner! -- With that said, I think the HDS (especially with the rotary option would be an amazing choice for purely an EDC light without the gun-fighting aspect thrown in the mix).

Anyway, take care and thanks for chiming in!...

Love talking lights and the philosophy behind their use!
A BOSS might work, instead - though IIRC it's a power switch light, rather than e-switch, which could be annoying for special mode access (like beacon) - and a few might still be in stock (sure looks it). They're usually even harder to get in a decent amount of time than HDSes. I'm not sure what the candela numbers are like, but the total wall of light from a 519A under a 10507 should be pretty impressive. I don't see output listed, right handy, but based on the older low-CRI Crees getting about 3500lm max, 2000-2500lm is probably a reasonable expectation from the 519As.
 

Lights and Guns

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Dec 25, 2016
Messages
185
Location
New York
A BOSS might work, instead - though IIRC it's a power switch light, rather than e-switch, which could be annoying for special mode access (like beacon) - and a few might still be in stock (sure looks it). They're usually even harder to get in a decent amount of time than HDSes. I'm not sure what the candela numbers are like, but the total wall of light from a 519A under a 10507 should be pretty impressive. I don't see output listed, right handy, but based on the older low-CRI Crees getting about 3500lm max, 2000-2500lm is probably a reasonable expectation from the 519As.
I appreciate the reply, just took a look at what was in stock. I've honestly never been a fan of the aesthetics of the BOSS lights at all and because of that alone I'd not be willing to spend that type of money on it. Also, way too much output on high for that fuel source, it'd prob step down SUPER SUPER fast, I highly doubt it would have any meaningful candela with it on top of that, probably just a wall of light. Not super ideal either. I like a mixture of Output and candela but an output that makes sense. I think the 1,000Lm mark is right around where you can get about 4 1/2 ish minutes out of an 18350. But 2000+? No clue, but I'd imagine sub 45 seconds?
 

neco

Enlightened
Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Messages
209
Location
Hong Kong
Seems like an HDS could be turned on maximum for as long as the battery lasts, many many times. Even when it is several years old, it is safe to think that the emitter has not been cooked with hot use and will continue to be reliable for cave use (or other needs where reliability is more important than juicing the LED and getting eventual burn out)?

Taken from HDS FAQ:

How long will the LED last?

The LED in your flashlight will last for 6,000 to 18,000 battery changes depending on what brightness settings you are using. In practical terms, the LED in your flashlight will never need replacing.
The life of an LED depends on a number of factors. The most important of these are heat and current. Our flashlights have a direct thermal path from the LED to the exterior of the flashlight to remove any heat from the LED. Then we use a sophisticated regulation technique to manage the heat and current in your flashlight which will prevent premature aging that causes reduced lumens output and protects the LED from catastrophic failure.
 

neco

Enlightened
Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Messages
209
Location
Hong Kong
Additionally KITROBASKIN, HDS does not overdrive their LED's and the heat management is the best I've tried while comparing to other lights. I expect my HDS lights to easily outlast me. Not that I'm old so I expect them to last a very long time…
 

KITROBASKIN

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
5,435
Location
New Mexico, USA
If HDS flashlights are first and foremost for cave exploration, extended throw is really not needed unless you are fortunate enough to be in a truly voluminous cavern.

Really, I've been using a Fraz Labs qt 18650 and I'll tell you it is not a screamer; maybe similar to HDS. (But I do have a hot burning compact thrower with me because our terrain benefits from its few seconds of occasional use)
 
Top