help with G2 led upgrade

[GPB]

I've never seen a graph on the Surefire P60L, but it will drop it's output as it heats up and will give gradual decreasing output over the remainder of the battery life. I wish they would quantify their number "12hr runtime."

-posted by "Roymail"

Surefire has a graph for the 6P and G3 in their catalogue that shows the 6P dropping off precipitously after 3 hours and then running for a while at around 5 lumens.

 

[ElGreco]

With all do respect, Surefire did include runtime graphs for the P60L in their 2008 catalogue. I certainly can relate to the rather inflated runtimes in this case, so i'll keep buying Malkoffs.

I can certainly vouch for Gene's drop-ins. Not only do they already provide great heat spreading via all that brass, but the M60L and LL models are extremely energy and heat efficent. An M60LL would certainly suit a long running G2.

 

[Kestrel]

Thanks folks, I was at least somewhat content with my incan G2 residing in the car glovebox, but I guess I have to get the M60LL after reading this thread... sigh...

 

[RWT1405]

And how many catalogs are out there (seems to me I keep hearing people here "begging" for them, I certainly have not seen any of them available, anywhere) ? I have certainly NOT seen any such graph (by SF) anywhere else, such as their on-line catalog, any of the sales "sites" on line (that I have seen anyway), etc.. I sure widh I could say that I have, all I continue to see is

5.09 inches

6P® LED

Battery-powered LED. Compact (pocket sized) flashlight featuring a super-efficient, high-output, long-running LED for tactical, outdoor, and general use. A higher-output, longer-running LED version of our best-selling 6P® Original.

Max Output: 80 lumens
Runtime: 11 hours

Price: $85.00 | More info

I see NOTHING there about a decreasing level of light. Do you? My .02 FWIW

 

[matt0]

In the description of the 6PL it says "producing useful light levels for an impressive 11 hours" In other lights, they say 'tactical-level light output'.

While it's a debatable term, 'useful' to me goes down to about 3-5 lumens. Obviuosly, 5 lumens wouldn't do much for you in a tactical situation so on some of the lights that are geared more towards SWAT, LEO, Military, they seem to have the 'tactical' runtime rather than the 'useful' runtime.

If you look at the G3L, They explain how it has 9.4hrs of runtime. 5.8hrs of that runtime is at a tactical level.

Oh and the runtime graphs everyone is talking about is on page 47 of the online catalog

http://www.surefire.com/misc/2008-Illumination-Tools-Catalog.pdf

 

[Woods Walker]

Someplace on CPF I seen a chart showing longer but less lumen regulated output when the P60L was placed in a standard Plastic G2. I think the regulated output fell fast to 60 lumens but ran regulated for 4 hours. I could be wrong however. I ordered a Surefire P60L for my G2Z and should be getting it in a few days. I did this because of heat issues with the standard G2/G2Z and it is a Surefire product. So if anything goes wrong SF will take care of it forever.

I am certain that the other drop ins could work well in the Al lights but all I wanted to do is upgrade my G2Z and if the output is 60ish lumens for 2-4 times longer then the total burn of the standard lamp I will be happy. Any more non regulated output is just fine by me. The Surefire G2Z is nearly bomb proof and that is why I own the light. If I want more lumens and runtime then I will just use my L2D Q5. There are other factors then lumens to consider.

Just my 2 cents from someone that is not an expert.

 

[Woods Walker]

Ok I found the CPF post.


https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/176621


Semms to show that a P60L module in an aluminum-bodied Surefire (6P) is putting out between 75-80 lumens for a relatively flat span (the regulation) using Energizer batteries and then at about 170 minutes (2:48 hours) into things the regulation drops off and the light output begins to taper off. Same idea with the P60L module in the plastic-bodied Surefire (G2), except that due to the plastic head on the model tested the heat transfer from the LED is less, resulting in a longer runtime at a slightly lower output than the 6P model. I defer to the experts at CPF, but that's my understanding of the new Surefire LED modules. They run for quite a while in regulation, and then regulation cuts out and they drop in runtime, putting out less and less light until the 11 or 12 hours hits.

But again I am no expert and have not gotten my SF drop in yet so who knows.

 

[Yoda4561]

Yeah they're thermally and electronically regulated. It seems their electronic regulation is a wee bit inefficient compared to some other aftermarket drop-ins. If I recall the G2L graph looks like the G3L's but cuts off at 4 hours instead of 6

 

[roymail]

Matt0, thanks for the graph... that's the first one I've see.

The output and dropoff looks about like I expected.

 

[Woods Walker]

Anyone knows what LED is used in the standard P60L drop-in?

 

[Monocrom]

Anyone knows what LED is used in the standard P60L drop-in?

Seoul P4.

 

[ampdude]

Yeah.... The P61L.

I got sick & tired of waiting around for Surefire to release it. If it wasn't nearly ready for release to the Public, Surefire shouldn't have announced it so soon.

I ended up getting a Malkoff M60 for my Surefire C2. Unlike the M60LL, the M60 does heat up with continuous use on fresh cells, for the first 1.5 hours. One CPFer used an integrating sphere with his M60, and got 227 lumens out the front.

Translation: Surefire is still working on an LED drop-in for their lights that, at best, will be able to compete on the same level as Gene's M60. :shakehead

Like I said, I got tired of waiting and bought a Malkoff M60 drop-in, instead.

When the P61L comes out I'm pretty sure I'll be picking one up. I like the spring design vs. the drop-in module.

 

[dougie]

Surefire don't rely on physically removing heat from the LED but use a thermal sensor to limit the maximum temperature that the LED is exposed to thus ensuring its longevity. This is a pity as you would have thought that they could have come up with a better engineered solution which would have provided a more stable output. It will be interesting to see how they engineer the promised P61L. Unless they can find a new way to beat the laws of thermal dynamics it will have to rely on heat transfer in a better way than the P60L does. Otherwise Malkoff devices will maintain the premier position they currently hold for dropins?

 

[RWT1405]

Well said dougie, and I agree. I will also go as far as to say Malkoff WILL retain the position as the PREMIER P60 "drop-in" maker. Nothing SF has done recently really "does it" for me (sorry, I don't want/like/need a piddly little, needle point TIR beam) and I doubt anything they will put out in the next 6 mo. - 1 year will (I do hope they prove me wrong, but I doubt it).

Malkoff, on the other hand, is EVERYTHING that a P60 "drop-in" should be (as well as his Mag "drop-ins"). Now THAT'S what a light SHOULD be!

I realize not everyone will agree, but that's the way I see it.

My .02 FWIW YMMV

 

[lronchef]

QUESTION:
I too am considering one of Gene's drop-ins for my g2 nitrolon. I currently have a single mode q5 which is nice and bright for about an hour or so I think. I am now considering switching it to a m60L to get some life out of it, with a balance of a brighter light. If I'm not mistaken, it's at 140L (out front?) and goes about 4 hours? Then what? My question is, what happens when the voltage drops out of regulation? Does it slowly fade and shut off? And how long will it stay lit out of regulation?

Thanks.

Oooh, also...can G2's take 18650 batteries?

 

[roymail]

If I'm not mistaken, it's at 140L (out front?) and goes about 4 hours? Then what? My question is, what happens when the voltage drops out of regulation? Does it slowly fade and shut off? And how long will it stay lit out of regulation? Oooh, also...can G2's take 18650 batteries?

M60L runs in regulation for 4+ hrs or until voltage drops to 3.7v at which time it continues to provide decreasing output for a period of time. So I guess "slowly fade then shut off" is the answer.

18650's will not fit in Surefire lights since they are too big 18mm and the Surefire barrel is designed for 17mm cells. In a G2 I'd recommend 2x123 primaries or 2xrcr123's for a rechargeable setup. A single 17670 will work but will only provide 3.7v and the M60's are best driven with upwards to 9v. 6 volts works great in a G2 w/M60L... ask me how I know.

 

[lronchef]

Cool, thanks for that response! So if i use rcr123s, what kind of runtime do they get compared to primaries? I haven't studied graphs lately and don't recall what they put out.

 

[roymail]

Cool, thanks for that response! So if i use rcr123s, what kind of runtime do they get compared to primaries?

Since I only use primaries with my M60L, I can't say for sure. Since the voltage draw is 300-350ma with the M60L, someone like mdocod, LukeA or others here can do the math better than me.

I primarily use my G2 as a utility light around my house and garage. So primaries work best for me. This setup lasts a long time and is plenty bright enough for my needs. One day I hope to get either 2x17500's or 2x18500 setup for my M60L.

 

[matt0]

I think AW RCR123's are rated at ~700mAh. According to the Malkoff site, the M60L draws ~350mA @ 6V. At 8.4V, it should draw less current.

6V x 0.35mA = 2.1W

8.4V x 0.25mA = 2.1W

So, assuming the module runs at 2.1W regardless of voltage, 700mAh/250mA = 2.8h

If all the above is true, you should get 2.8 hours (165min) of output...

 

[Yoda4561]

Cool, thanks for that response! So if i use rcr123s, what kind of runtime do they get compared to primaries? I haven't studied graphs lately and don't recall what they put out.

Take note that if you use RCR123's the M60L will drain them past the safe "low voltage" since even dead (2.5 volts) a pair will still be high enough in voltage to keep the M60L in regulation. I think you can get an hour or so of runtime (don't quote me, just a guess), as long as you keep it under that and recharge daily it should be fine.