im sorry but this made me laugh puppy shoots man

[flashlight_widow]

LOL who finds a ferret on their porch! Apparently raggie! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[brightnorm]

Shooting is a violent death. For me the choice is clear between splattering my dog's brain or holding him while he peacefully passes.

Here's another view:

Brightnorm

 

[flashlight_widow]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif

 

[LifeNRA]

[ QUOTE ]
flashlight_widow said:



I guess that's another thing that bothers me. If such a person exists that they could actually bring themselves to shoot their own pet... I personally find that pretty disturbing.

And since I'm the devil's advocate and causing debate today, I should throw in that I'm also pro-choice. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Well you found one. I have shot my own pet before. Had a puppy who was so sick he was throwing up worms. Called the vet and he actually recommended putting it down instead of letting it suffer. So I put the poor thing out of its misery with a .22. How that could disturb you more than an unborn baby being *aborted* really disturbs me.

*Edited the graphic description I used for the sake of the thread.

 

[raggie33]

please bring in down a tad everyone, i certanly didnt want the thread to turn out this way. its the weekend lets all smile /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[flashlight_widow]

I'm very sorry to hear about your puppy. In a situation where the puppy is terribly ill and you have someone who is a decent shot, I guess I can't really find fault with that (although I personally don't think I could handle it). However, the type of person who shoots puppies because they "can't find homes" is a little different. I would guess that someone like yourself, who shoots their pet because they feel that they have to out of medical necessity, is probably 1 in 1 million compared to those who just do it because they are too lazy or ignorant to even attempt to find a solution.

I will not turn this into an abortion debate (I went back and edited my post to remove what I had said in favor of pro-choice, for raggie's sake) - but I stand by my feelings 150% and believe I am perfectly justified.

It's cool, raggie. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[MikeF]

[ QUOTE ]
Rothrandir said:
i've heard of keeping your guns away from your kids, but to keep them away from your dogs? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Many years ago, I was hunting with my grandfather. He was born in 1897, and I was blessed to be able to spend a lot of time with him, but he was definitely from a different time frame, and his ideas about gun safety left a lot to be desired.
We had just arrived at our hunting spot, a small canal on the property that he owned that had many geese and ducks. He took his shotgun (a beautiful 12 gauge Belgian Browning over and Under) out of my Wagoneer, and rested it, standing up along the right front fender. Carl, a friend of ours, just walked past his gun, a couple of feet away, and at the same time, the gun, that had been rather carelessly set against the car fell over and discharged, and just missed Carl!!! My grandfather had his loaded 12 gauge in the car for the 45 minute drive to our hunting spot, and probably it had been loaded in his house when we picked him up. I was shocked, and so thankfull that Carl wasn't hurt!

My father, who taught my firearms safety at a very early age, also was very upset when I told him later.

Another incident that happened with my grandfather, was after he and my grandmother had been out at the same property, and he had his shotgun in his pickup. Now this property was in a rural area, but my grandparents lived near the center of Denver, so his carrying his loaded shotgun into Denver was not a good idea. Anyway, upon their return home after visiting the property, when my grandmother was getting out of the truck, the button of her coat caught on the trigger of the 12 gauge and caused the gun to fire. Lucky for her the barrel was pointing towards the floor of the truck when it discharged. Imagine the sound of a 12 gauge shotgun firing in the cab of a truck, inside a garage!!! The discharge made a hole through the floorboard, bounced up from the concrete garage floor, hit a refrigerator and shop vac in the garage, and flattened the right front tire!!!!

I am so thankful to my father that even though I was raised with many firearms around, he taught me the proper, responsible way to handle firearms at an early age. After he heard about our hunting incident, my dad also told me to ALWAYS check my grandfathers guns whenever he had them out.

 

[James S]

Hey guys, chill out or I'm locking the thread.

This particular case was not a matter of someone killing a sick animal, which so far everyone agrees is sometimes the humane thing to do, but rather puppies that he didn't want. Or so I understood it after a cursory reading.

I would also undertake to shoot a very sick animal if I did not have access to an alternative. I'm not sure if thats more for me or for the animal though. Personally I'd rather have them fall asleep in my arms.

This thread has nothing I can conceivably (get it? Conceivably? !!) connect to abortion in any way shape or form. Add another description of what you consider that process to be like and I'll also close the thread. Take out your choice/anti arguments in the underground.

 

[flashlight_widow]

I don't participate in the underground (and have no interest in doing so), so as I said, I won't turn this into an abortion debate. I threw that statement into my earlier post because someone else had used abortion as a comparison.

Apologies if I've offended anyone, I just have *very* strong feelings regarding animal cruelty and this country's lack of sufficient punishment.

 

[LifeNRA]

flashlight widow,
Thank you for keeping it civil with your last post. I may be a bit emotional today and I apologize if I have offended anyone. But of course I have strong feelings about some matters just as everyone else does. I cannot apologize for my feelings or beliefs. Truce? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

Raggie,
Enough said, you are right. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gifI'm smiling.

 

[McGizmo]

Re: im sorry but this made me laugh puppy shoots m

I see I opened a can of worms! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif I guess my comment was more in suggesting that although on the face of it, the guy sounds like an uncaring idiot and I would certainly not condone or be party to what he was up to, however, there may be some considerations, background or extenuating circumstances beyond the scope of the article that could possibly show the situation in a different light. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif I won't bother listing some that come to mind. Either this guy is a complete uncaring slob or he took upon himself a task that most of us could not do! Even within our own country, we need to bear in mind, IMHO, that we can be guilty of being ethnocentric or possibly quick to judge without all of the facts. I had a friend who had a great dog that he had picked up in China when it was a pup. He bought it from an outdoor stall where it was being sold for dinner. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif Yes, *it* was to be dinner.

What can I say? I think life is precious at all levels and if a life is to be taken, I can only hope that the reasons, whatever they may be, are justified.

 

[flashlight_widow]

It's cool, NRA. I *do* understand the situation you were in with your dog - in fact, my husband was there once with one of our cats and had to do something similar. But like I said, I think people who act in those situations are probably a small percentage compared to those like the person this whole thread is about - shooting his puppies just because he couldn't find homes for them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif Again, I am sorry you had to go through that.

I'm just ready for the weekend and some ice cold beer. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[jhereg]

Re: im sorry but this made me laugh puppy shoots m

I think some of this debate comes from a city/country lifestyle. I know people who live on farms & the animals are property. If they have a problem they deal with it. They are used to putting animals down & don't really think twice about it if necessary. Animals are property to them. A lot of people from the city see the animals as people. They are horrified by the concept of shooting an animal if they can't find a home for it. It all depends on how you see the animals. Are they property, or are they people?

 

[NewBie]

Re: im sorry but this made me laugh puppy shoots m

I've worked on a farm and in a butcher shop, folks shoot animals all the time, even pets.

I don't really understand this city slicker stuff. I go to the city and see many hungry strays, which I feel is alot more cruel. When we go up into the mountains, as you are going in, it is rather common to see animals that were formerly pets, in some rather dire straights. Plus lots of dead or long dead ones, and skeletons. This is extremely cruel. Pets don't normally revert to wild animals (though I have seen large dogs take off to run with the coyotes, and seen packs with a number of formerly pets), normally I when see them alive, they look like walking skeletons, often with wounds from things that tried to eat them.

I do know a logger that got so upset that he started packing a pistol while working, so he could put them out of their misery.

 

[PhotonWrangler]

It is still more humane to euthanize an animal peacefully than to let it die in agonizing pain. That idiot got what he deserved.

 

[PhotonWrangler]

The vet recommended shooting it rather than euthanizing it? Please tell us his name so we can get his license revoked! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[LifeNRA]

[ QUOTE ]
PhotonWrangler said:
The vet recommended shooting it rather than euthanizing it? Please tell us his name so we can get his license revoked! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry Photon but not everyone lives or lived close to a town or vet. I have no idea how the stick of a needle hurts any less than a well placed shot. A well placed bullet kills instantly and there is no suffering that goes along with it as so many would lead you to believe. I have held a dog in my arms as the vet put it to sleep. It was my Grandpa's dog who was old and sick. That dog did not go into peaceful slumber. The vet and the needle and it knowing something was wrong made the last few minutes of that dog's life horrible. That dog moaned and howled and before it was over my Grandpa was in tears. That is the only time I ever saw my Grandpa cry. He swore from that day on that no dog of his would ever be put to sleep again. So lets see if one is more humane than the other one. I take a dog out in the woods who is used to being with me and around guns. The dog thinks there is nothing wrong and as he is looking around I shoot him and instantly kill him. Or I take him to the vet where he hates to be anyway and while he is scared to death, at least every dog I have ever had hates the vet, a vet sticks a needle in his leg. And do not tell me a needle does not hurt. I do not think everything can be as cut and dry as some people think it is.

 

[jhereg]

Re: im sorry but this made me laugh puppy shoots m

[ QUOTE ]
PhotonWrangler said:
It is still more humane to euthanize an animal peacefully than to let it die in agonizing pain. That idiot got what he deserved.

[/ QUOTE ]

Euthanize sounds so much better than kill doesn't it? Lots of healthy animals go nuts when you get close to the vet's office. I don't think either of these options is right for everybody. A well placed 22 to the head is sufficient to immediately kill everything from a mouse to a large cow. A well placed shot by a vet will kill the same animal, but takes longer. Make your own choice.

 

[flashlight_widow]

Re: im sorry but this made me laugh puppy shoots m

LifeNRA - I really think perhaps the vet who euthanized your grandfather's dog must have done something wrong, or perhaps methods have just changed since then. Regardless, I'm sorry your grandfather had to endure something traumatic like that. I've had to have a few cats put down and have never had any issues like that. They are always sedated first and very calm and peaceful - even those who despise the vet. Also, most vets will come to a person's home for an extremely minimal fee and perform the euthanasia there. The whole process takes maybe 2 minutes. Animals that freak out and panic at the vet generally have behavioral issues, so if you have a pet who is well-trained and accustomed to those things, it generally won't be in a panic-stricken state.

For the record, I grew up in an extremely rural area and I'm about as "country" as it gets - but I definitely don't share those attitudes and mindsets. I don't think that has so much to do with geography as with personal attitude, for whatever reason (upbringing, ignorance, etc.)

Regardless of my personal opinions, it sounds like this guy was a complete idiot. Who takes their litter of puppies out to shoot them because they couldn't find homes? Why wouldn't he have just had the dog spayed or neutered?

Newbie - Yes, I find dumping of animals like that to be extremely cruel. As I said, I grew up in a very, very rural area and people were constantly dumping their unwanted strays in our area. We always took them in and fed and cared for them, but I will never understand how people can be so heartless and ignorant. For some of those animals, yes, death probably would be a more humane choice - but, actually making something of an effort to find a home for the animal, or take it to the shelter even, would be a MUCH better option than simply shooting it or dumping it. Or gee, maybe think about getting your animals spayed and neutered as a form of population control to reduce the number of unwanted pets running around? Unfortunately, many people are just too lazy or ignorant to waste their precious time on something like that and would rather just dump the animal. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[LifeNRA]

Re: im sorry but this made me laugh puppy shoots m

flashlight widow,
I have been around dogs all my life. Everything from muts to $2,000 hunting dogs. I know dogs who obey not only verbal commands but also hand signals. No two dogs are alike. They each have their own unique traits or personalities. The owner of the company I work for who also happens to be a good friend has a brittany. She is the best bird dog I have ever seen. She travels all over the United States on hunting trips and is never a problem. But as soon as she goes to the vet it is a different story. She hates the vet. I honestly think it is because she associates him with pain. You know the shots and all. It is not true that all dogs who freak at the vets have behavioral issues. If that is the case then every dog I have ever had must have had behavioral issues.
Now on the issue of personal attitudes and mindsets. Yes I have my own attitudes and mindsets about this issue. Is it because of my upbringing? Probably a lot of it yes. Is it because I am ignorant? Not in my mind of course. I perfectly understand the difference between shooting a dog and putting it to sleep. I have done both. Well I held the dog while the vet put it to sleep. I have taken dogs to the vet all my life. I have seen how not only mine behave but I can hear the others howling and growling while I am in the waiting room. I have talked to other owners about how their pets behave at the vets. I have always taken my dogs, my moms dogs, and my grandmas dogs and cats to the vet every time they need anything (shots, checkups, etc...). I have done this for 15 years. So I have spent a lot of time in animal hospitals. So no I do not think I am ignorant about this issue. Not unless knowledge and experience = ignorance. Now I may write ignorant but that is a seperate issue.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif I really need to use the spellcheck button.
My bottom line on the whole thread. As far as the guy shooting his puppies. I think it was wrong if he did not try to give them away or take them to the pound so they would have a chance to survive. But I also think it is really none of my business what he did with them. I love dogs but what makes a dog getting shot any worse than a cow or a pig in a slaughter house? Maybe I feel that all animals are just that, animals. I have cried over many dogs that I have buried in the past and I will bury many more I am sure in the future. As much as I love animals I do not put them on the same emotional or spiritual level as a human being.