Is Surefire just really smart to stay out of the "ultra bright" led battle?

[WadeF]

Re: Is Surefire just really smart to stay out of the "ultra bright" led battle?

Thanks for clarifying. Must admit, bank vaultish is a great way of describing the light.

As for what's more likely to survive the type of fall mentioned, I honestly think the 6PL would stand a better chance than a P3D. The 6PL is overbuilt, the P3D isn't. Think of it this way, (in terms of accidents) which is better: A new car with crumple zones that's lighter than an older model. Or a car from the '70s that's heavy and built like a tank?

Actually crash tests show passengers receive worse injuries when two large and heavy cars collide, than if two small, lightweight cars collide. With the smaller and lighter cars there is less energy involved. Now obviously a large car hitting a small car would be another story, but we're not smashing Fenix's with Surefires here. A heavier flashlight falling will have more energy when it hits the ground which will tranfers to the inner workings of the flashlight, and have more potential to crack the lens, electronics, the body itself, etc.

Don't you remember the post with the Fenix that fell down some 14 stories (forget exactly how many floors) in an elevator shaft, occasionally banging off steam beams, etc. It was nicked up, but was still operating. If a Fenix light can survive that they are plenty tough, as the majority of users aren't going to have something that extreme happen to their lights. I've had my Fenix P2D fall 3-4 feet onto hard tile with nothing more than a small ding in the finish. If it was a Surefire the result may have been the same, but I may have had to replace a cracked floor tile.

 

[Bullzeyebill]

Re: Is Surefire just really smart to stay out of the "ultra bright" led battle?

I too miss communication with Surefire. When I joined CPF in 2003 Paul Kim was still posting on CPF, and at one point he responded to a PM I sent asking him a question about the differences between the new KL4 and the upcoming KL5 circuits. CPF was a gentler and more civilized place then, with more respectful, and less belligerent members. You folks that are rude and disdainful, you know who you are, please knock it off.

Bill

 

[Kiessling]

Re: Is Surefire just really smart to stay out of the "ultra bright" led battle?

I too miss communication with Surefire. When I joined CPF in 2003 Paul Kim was still posting on CPF, and at one point he responded to a PM I sent asking him a question about the differences between the new KL4 and the upcoming KL5 circuits. CPF was a gentler and more civilized place then, with more respectful, and less belligerent members. You folks that are rude and disdainful, you know who you are, please knock it off.

Bill

Dito. I miss the old times.

 

[jzmtl]

Re: Is Surefire just really smart to stay out of the "ultra bright" led battle?

Don't you remember the post with the Fenix that fell down some 14 stories (forget exactly how many floors) in an elevator shaft, occasionally banging off steam beams, etc. It was nicked up, but was still operating. If a Fenix light can survive that they are plenty tough, as the majority of users aren't going to have something that extreme happen to their lights. I've had my Fenix P2D fall 3-4 feet onto hard tile with nothing more than a small ding in the finish. If it was a Surefire the result may have been the same, but I may have had to replace a cracked floor tile.

My money is on if it didn't hit the pipes on the way down, it would've been broken. I really can't see any light survive a 14 floor straight drop to concrete, surefire or fenix.

 

[Monocrom]

Re: Is Surefire just really smart to stay out of the "ultra bright" led battle?

To: Wade-

Not sure how I missed the thread about the Fenix light that survived such a fall.... especially considering how horribly addicted I am to this site.

You raise some good points..... especially about not having to replace floor tile. LOL !
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To: Bullzeyebill -

I was surprised to learn PK even had an account here. The last time he posted was recently. In the thread about offering G2s in various colors. (Then again, that was a fun thread about Surefire that didn't deteriorate).

I hear you about how some Users treat each other. This was an incredibly friendly and courteous place when I first found it. Sadly less so now. (More threads about Users having bought a light and used it during an interesting situation, too).

 

[WadeF]

Re: Is Surefire just really smart to stay out of the "ultra bright" led battle?

Here's the topic about the Fenix:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/96573&highlight=fenix+drop

Pics on page 2.

I was wrong, it was dropped from between the 17th and 18th floors! The light worked on recover, but the next day it didn't. Turned out the one lead had come loose, the owner just soldered it back on, and continues o use the light. So it kind of survived.

 

[Monocrom]

Re: Is Surefire just really smart to stay out of the "ultra bright" led battle?

.... So it kind of survived.

LOL !

Couldn't have put it better myself. Thanks for the link Wade. I'll check out the thread since my curiosity has gotten the better of me.

 

[Patriot]

Re: Is Surefire just really smart to stay out of the "ultra bright" led battle?

I expect that in due course SureFire will once again turn their attention to high output options for LED flashlights. However, the largest market sectors are being dealt with first from a retail perspective.

Al

And I'm really looking forward to that. I remember when EDC sized incans were still outperforming LEDs. The main advantage for LED back then was the run-time. I remember boggling in amazement at my new KL1 head with 30 lumens and 4 hours of run-time. Then the LuxV arrived and Surefire made the jump to "tactical" LED lights. Nothing else could really compare to the L2 and L4 output to size ratio. I'd like to see them reincarnate that type of excitement in the next L2 and L4.

 

[Bullzeyebill]

Re: Is Surefire just really smart to stay out of the "ultra bright" led battle?

I bought one of the first KL1's and it was rated at 17 or so lumens much brighter than the 3 and 5mm leds I was playing around with in the 90's. Nice long runtime for that time. Yeah, leds were a novelity at first, it seemed. Now it seems they are a necessity.

Bill

 

[daveman]

Re: Is Surefire just really smart to stay out of the "ultra bright" led battle?

Here's the topic about the Fenix:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/96573&highlight=fenix+drop

Pics on page 2.

I was wrong, it was dropped from between the 17th and 18th floors! The light worked on recover, but the next day it didn't. Turned out the one lead had come loose, the owner just soldered it back on, and continues o use the light. So it kind of survived.

Not bad at all, not as impressive as that L4 surviving a snow blower a few years back, but certainly sufficient to silence the naysayers who like to pick on Fenix's durability.

 

[WadeF]

Re: Is Surefire just really smart to stay out of the "ultra bright" led battle?

Not bad at all, not as impressive as that L4 surviving a snow blower a few years back, but certainly sufficient to silence the naysayers who like to pick on Fenix's durability.

I think I'd be more concerned about my snowblower than the Surefire!

 

[turbodog]

Re: Is Surefire just really smart to stay out of the "ultra bright" led battle?

This is essentially what Mag is doing. Yet people kick them in the balls.

Brand worship.

Period.

 

[BentHeadTX]

Re: Is Surefire just really smart to stay out of the "ultra bright" led battle?

I like Surefires although I don't own any of them due to the batteries they use. As others have pointed out, Surefire uses the best bins they can buy and there is no big splashy announcements of the bin of the month.

Surefire has their market and sticks to it. They are too large to engage in the photon monster of the month contest and too specialized to use AA/AAA cells or make keychain lights. They don't want to spread themselves over too many markets as they lose their rep as a combat/police light.

Surefire makes "combat" lights not "green" or normally considered EDC lights for the average person. It seems to work for them so what the heck. Those government orders will keep streaming in until the war is over, a plane catches on fire from frag hitting the CR123 cells or they see an opportunity. Who knows? They probably have a Quad Cree monster running A123 Systems nano-phosphate batteries with variable dimming on the test bench.

 

[Monocrom]

Re: Is Surefire just really smart to stay out of the "ultra bright" led battle?

Surefire makes "combat" lights not "green" or normally considered EDC lights for the average person. It seems to work for them so what the heck. Those government orders will keep streaming in until the war is over, a plane catches on fire from frag hitting the CR123 cells or they see an opportunity. Who knows?

Oh, it's never going to end. Surefires are just too good to be stopped by peace!

No one told me I can't normally EDC my Surefires. Why didn't anyone tell me?! ..... I mean just because they have pocket-carry clips on so many of their models.
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To: daveman -

I'm sorry, but I couldn't help laugh at how you posted about Fenix durability, in the same post you talked about an L4 surviving a snowblower encounter.

That's like saying, "I proved to my wife I was a real man by not crying when I stubbed my toe. It was nice how a guy with a bleeding head wound stopped his car while driving himself to the hospital, just to ask if I was okay. Yes sir, my wife will never doubt my toughness again."
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To: Wade -

What kind of flashaholic are you??

I bet if it was your DBS under that blower, then you'd care! :lolsign:

 

[BentHeadTX]

Re: Is Surefire just really smart to stay out of the "ultra bright" led battle?

Oh, it's never going to end. Surefires are just too good to be stopped by peace!

No one told me I can't normally EDC my Surefires. Why didn't anyone tell me?! ..... I mean just because they have pocket-carry clips on so many of their models.

My point is Surefire is limiting their appeal to keep their perception as a tactical light. Makes a lot of sense to me!

My brother-in-law is presently in the Middle East, his Surefire is mounted on whatever weapon he is using. The game is to conserve the cells only when needed. His Streamlight rechargable sits on his belt and I forgot what he uses in low light. He is a cop normally with the Streamlight as his EDC, the Surefire sits in a box. I'll send him a NiteCore/Fenix/Peak type light to run on a single AA cell. Everything else he has runs on NiMH AA cells so it will be a natural. I'll throw in an 8-pack of Eneloops as they should perform better in his camera/radio/wireless mice etc.

I know when I go back over there, the lights and batteries that go in come back out with me. My little effort at being "green" as I wonder what happens to all those CR123A cells. Now that LSD Eneloops are available, I don't need any spare alkaline or lithium AA cells. Yes, I'll bring two chargers with me to abide by the law of survival.

Have the utmost respect for Surefire, they make good stuff! As always, there is always some quirk that sours me on certain things...for me, I use rechargables and like standardized cells/chargers. For me, I'll take a Fenix L2D Q5 or NiteCore Defender over a SF L1. I burn through a lot of batteries out there so knowing I can recharge my lighting systems eliminates another hassle I don't want to deal with.

Meanwhile, I wait for the rumored 2AA or 1AA Surefire light!

 

[WadeF]

Re: Is Surefire just really smart to stay out of the "ultra bright" led battle?

To: Wade -

What kind of flashaholic are you??
I bet if it was your DBS under that blower, then you'd care! :lolsign:

Sorry, I guess that went over your head. Saying I'd be more concerned about the snow blower was a compliment to Surefire, meaning, a Surefire is so tough and hardend I'd be more worried about it breaking the snow blower than the snow blower breaking the Surefire.

My argument isn't if a Surefire is tougher than a Fenix, obviously the are. My argument is, Fenix lights are tough enough for what most people will throw at them and there haven't been many examples to prove other wise. Surefire lights are built even tougher, but it doesn't mean Fenix lights aren't tough enough. Do you own a Fenix yet? Until you have some more experience with Fenix lights you may want to avoid writing them off so quickly.

 

[daveman]

Re: Is Surefire just really smart to stay out of the "ultra bright" led battle?

To: daveman -

I'm sorry, but I couldn't help laugh at how you posted about Fenix durability, in the same post you talked about an L4 surviving a snowblower encounter.

That's like saying, "I proved to my wife I was a real man by not crying when I stubbed my toe. It was nice how a guy with a bleeding head wound stopped his car while driving himself to the hospital, just to ask if I was okay. Yes sir, my wife will never doubt my toughness again."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Your sense of humour is above my comprehension.

 

[270winchester]

Re: Is Surefire just really smart to stay out of the "ultra bright" led battle?

I bought one of the first KL1's and it was rated at 17 or so lumens much brighter than the 3 and 5mm leds I was playing around with in the 90's. Nice long runtime for that time. Yeah, leds were a novelity at first, it seemed. Now it seems they are a necessity.

Bill

the new KX1s give out output twice that, and runs for 5-6 hours regulated at that level. It's my EDC among other great lights that are so much more than just 4 kinds of strobes and ____ lumens.

life is good.

 

[xiaowenzu]

Re: Is Surefire just really smart to stay out of the "ultra bright" led battle?

The 'Lumen count' between 'bright' vs 'ultrabright' LED flashlights today, isn't as important as it was 2-3 years ago. Most of the top lights are above par and provide more than enough illumination. It's now like the difference between a 210Mph Supercar and a 230Mph Supercar. When you have cars that exhibit slight difference at what is an already mind boggling speed, other factors become more important such as acceleration, quality of construction, steering, handling, durability etc. A Porsche might not be THE fastest car, but it's an awesome drive. Same with Surefires lights.:twothumbs

For general lighting purposes such as looking in and around the house, most Surefire, Novatac lights provide more than plenty of illumination. I actually find myself switching to their lower modes, because the HIGH is too bright! However if you're going to do some serious trekking in the woods, you'd really need at least 500+ lumens to make the most of it– such as customs flashlights with multiple LEDS or even HID.

 

[bondr006]

Re: Is Surefire just really smart to stay out of the "ultra bright" led battle?

I have a Lumens Factory 380 lumen incan drop-in in my 9P, and let me assure you that it is more than adequate for serious trekking in the woods. In fact, I like it much better in the woods for color rendition and depth perception than any of my LED's.....including my Milky modded L1 with TIR optic CREE Q4 pushing out 160+ lumens with a MadMax circuit, Tiablo A9S Q5, Wolf Eyes D2AX Defender CREE Q2, Dereelight CL1H V3.0 CREE Q2, and Novatac 120P. When I shine my LED's at the woods...it's like everything is flat and looks dead....the light just stops at the tree line. When I shine my incan's at the woods...it is totally different. The light actually penetrates in to the woods and shows depth, and everything looks alive....like the difference between the complexion of a corps and a living person.

However if you're going to do some serious trekking in the woods, you'd really need at least 500+ lumens to make the most of it– such as customs flashlights with multiple LEDS or even HID.