just bought an used knee mill ... photos!

wquiles

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Re: just bought an used knee mill ...

Nice catch, I can't tell from the pics if it looks like hell or like a diamond. Either way should be functional with some work.
 
Re: just bought an used knee mill ...

I guess you own that rotary table also???
It is in the picture!
 
Re: just bought an used knee mill ...

Nice catch, I can't tell from the pics if it looks like hell or like a diamond. Either way should be functional with some work.
I honestly don't know. Brand new, it was $4910 from Enco, back 10 years ago. It is considered a "light duty" knee mill - about 1000 pounds or so. I will post pics later on and we will see if it was worth the money or not :thumbsup:

I guess you own that rotary table also???
It is in the picture!
I don't know since it was not part of the description. It would certainly be a nice "bonus" if it does come with it ;)

Will
 
Re: just bought an used knee mill ...

Certainly looks like a beast for a garage shop. Congrats on the find! :twothumbs
 
Re: just bought an used knee mill ...

It looks like one of the cars are going to have to start sleeping outside to fit that in the garage/shop.
 
Re: just bought an used knee mill ...

It looks like one of the cars are going to have to start sleeping outside to fit that in the garage/shop.

The sacrifice we make for our beloved toys ... tools.
Nice Catch Will.
 
Re: just bought an used knee mill ...

Ah yes, that's a newer model of the same design I have... Mine is from 1978.

It's surpringly solid and works well once you tram it, adjust everything. Hogging out 6061-t6 3/4 deep with a 3/4 inch end mill is possible. :)

leaningMrWong.jpg


Daniel
 
Re: just bought an used knee mill ...

Ah yes, that's a newer model of the same design I have... Mine is from 1978.

It's surpringly solid and works well once you tram it, adjust everything. Hogging out 6061-t6 3/4 deep with a 3/4 inch end mill is possible. :)

leaningMrWong.jpg


Daniel

Cool - so you can then tell me all of the tricks to getting this beast adjusted :devil:

How much space does it take from the back to the front handwheel? I am trying to decide where to put it in my garage :eek:

So I guess the dude on the right is you? It is good to put a face to the name ;)

Will
 
Re: just bought an used knee mill ...

Good snag Will. That should work perfect for you.
 
Re: just bought an used knee mill ...

Will,

Did you notice that the nameplate on yours says "Made in Taiwan" ? My Enco mill also says that. At some later date, their manufacturing was moved to China, after Taiwan prices became too high. Rong Fu is currently made in Taiwan, which is why many people prefer the Rong Fu to the Chinese Enco.

If your mill doesn't already have leveling feet (like those you installed on the lathe), the perfect time to put them on is while you have the engine lift. Mill leveling is not critical like a lathe, but it is really handy to have the table close to perfectly level - that allows using an angle meter (under $20) for quick set ups:

BAM-2.jpg


all of the tricks to getting this beast adjusted
Daniel, your mill looks like a smaller version of a Bridgeport. If so, there are just a few things to fine tune. You'd think the instruction manual would help (Enco can provide one if you need it), but they are written in broken ChinGlish, and hard to understand:( They have a pdf of their similar knee mill, Model 100-5100, at: http://www.use-enco.com/Machinery/100-5100.pdf

If you Google Enco 100-5200, there's quite a bit of info available from different groups.

First is adjusting the saddle gibs that control the tightness of the ways on the table (X&Y movements). Next are the gibs that control knee tightness (Z movement).

The most important adjustment on any mill, whether it's a mill-drill or a knee mill, is the angular relationship of spindle to table, known as the tram. You want the angle to be 90.000° in both X & Y . Checking tram is easy, and is done by attaching an Indicol holder to the spindle, and using a dial test indicator (.0005" graduations) to touch off the table. When the spindle is in perfect alignment, the DTI will not move as it is rotated through a complete circle.


This photo shows how to check for tram, using a parallel.
jo-block.jpg


I don't use anything under the DTI, and prefer to touch directly off the table. The machine's motor belt must be loose, so it's easy to swing the DTI. If you want to be extra safe, unplug the machine before proceeding.

If you want, a shop built tramming bar is not hard to make (shown here touching a gage block):
tramming_bar.jpg


The problem with any fixture that uses either a collet or a drill chuck is that the runout of most drill chucks & R8 collets is substantial. Gripping on the spindle introduces the least amount of error.

It appears that the 100-5200 head will tilt left & right, which allows adjustment of the spindle to table in the X axis. It does not look like the head will nod up or down, so that adjustment is made by inserting very thin shim stock at the junction of the column to the head. Perfect tram is indicated when the DTI needle does not move when rotated in a complete circle, but reality is that +/- .0005" is acceptable.

(On the mill that many of us use, the head will not tilt or nod. Tram is adjusted by inserting thin shim stock at the junction of the column to the base.)
 
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Re: just bought an used knee mill ...

I've seen it referred to as a bridgeport clone, but I was not able to find a bridgport in this configuration. The head is not mounted on a ram of any kind, so it does not move in/out like the bridgports I've seen.

Daniel
 
Re: just bought an used knee mill ...

Barry,

Do you find your mill needs readjustment often?

How often should the tram be checked?
 
Re: just bought an used knee mill ...

Yes that is me on the left in the green.... Oooops , that's the mill. I'm the geeky guy on the right.

I adjusted the tram on mine once and have not had to readjust it yet. The mating surface for the head's pivot point is 6 inches in diameter with 3 (or is it 4) big bolts to hold it still. The column's pivot is over 7 inches and also has some big, hefty bolts.

I will be double checking the tram as I work on some new projects.


As for adjustments, the one that had me flummoxed for a while was the X axis leadscrew nut. I had a LOT of backlash. I traced it down to the nut but I could not figure out how to tighten the screw that holds the nut.

I eventually found a manual that had an exploded view of the machine. The nut is held by a screw that comes up from the bottom of the dovetail that makes up the saddle's ways. You have to back the table almost off the knee to get to that screw.

All in all, I've been happy with the machine so far. :) I'm sure Will will be too.

Daniel
 
Re: just bought an used knee mill ...

a bridgeport clone
It's closer than most small mills are to a Bpt.

The head is not mounted on a ram
I noticed that too. The ram on a Bpt (or clone) allows forward & backward head movement, which can be nice for some parts. The Bpt head/ram assembly can rotate up to 90° left or right, which is sometimes useful. And the Bpt head can nod down or up, which can save an angle plate set up ... but is most useful for tramming.

The head on both the Bpt & the Enco 100-5200 will tilt left & right, and some machinists use this feature so the part doesn't get double cut - but again, it makes tramming really easy.
 
Re: just bought an used knee mill ...

Do you find your mill needs readjustment often?
Because there is no nod or tilt adjustment, and no ram to move in or out, the alignment stays really consistent. Not so on a Bpt, where one good crash with a 2" face mill means an immediate resetting of (at least) the tilt, and often the nod.

My old boss, one of the best machinists I've ever known, had an incredible feel for mill operation. One time, I knocked the Bpt out of tram with (my favorite tool) a 2" face mill. But the shift was almost done, the part was almost done, and the needed tramming did not get done. The boss came in early the next morning & messed up a jig that was near completion, for which there was hell to pay:shakehead Guess who got to clean out the sump on the radial drill that day?

Even if adjustments stay pretty constant, it's always best to check tram before any critical job.
 
Re: just bought an used knee mill ...

Hey Will, What are the measurements on your new toy?

The picture shows a lot of air between the spindle and table, but I'm pretty sure that was done with camera angles. The PDF that Barry found is for the smaller version (100-5100) , which has only 7 inches of Z. I could not find a manual for the 100-5200. It looks similar to mine so should have about 15 inches.


Before I forget... Getting it home depends on which model you have. If it's really the 600 lb model, a pickup and engine hoist will do it. If it's the 1200 pound model, it might be easier to rent a liftgate truck. Lots of folks move them around with 1 inch black pipe as rollers.


Daniel
 
Re: just bought an used knee mill ...

I almost missed Will's question.

My mill takes up 48 inches front to back. That's to the edge of the handles.

It takes 60 inches side to side. Again to the outside of the handles.

You will , of course, need to be able to get to the belts to change speeds too. I blew it. I have to swing the DRO head out of the way to change the belts. :(

Daniel
 

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