L4 + LiIon = voided warranty

[Ginseng]

I apologize if this has been covered already.

My L4 recently stopped working and I foolishly sent the whole light to SF for service. They junked the entire light, including my flat sided body, and sent me a replacement. The replacement works great, except that the inner bore is now 17.0 mm whereas it used to be closer to 17.2 mm. Doesn't sound like much but it's just enough to prevent the use of Pila cells in the L4 body.

Here is what the service department wrote back to me:

Dear Sir,

Because we replaced the whole light, you received the newest generation body. We do not recommend the use of rechargeable lithium ion batteries in the L4. This is what lead up to your light ceasing to function. Which does void your warranty. Unfortunately, all the old dimension bodies have been scrapped and sent for recycling, there are none left, all we have is the current generation, which you received back. It is the decision of the repair department to replace the whole light or just a portion of the light, in your case they replaced the entire light.

Don't get me wrong, I am grateful they replaced the light even though its use was outside of what was covered by warranty. SF has always gone above and beyond. Unfortunately, this slipstreamed change which makes SF123 cells less likely to rattle also renders it incapable of accommodating a common 2x123 replacement LiIon.

I've owned 5 different L4s since 2003 and none have just stopped working. IMO, the failure of this particular KL4 was due to whatever inside it started rattling around just prior to it going dark.

So, I guess I'm wondering if anyone else out there puts their L4 to hard use (2-3+ full LiIon cycles per week) and if their lights have failed in this manner.

What are our options? Is there a 2x123-sized LiIon cell that will fit in the new narrow bore bodies? I guess the other option is to get a machinist to take 0.2 mm out of the ID.

Wilkey

 

[Long John]

You can buy a 18650 body for it.

Best regards

____
Tom

 

[who]

We just bought two new L4s from Tacticalsupply.com. The unprotected Ultrafire 17670 fits perfectly.

I hope that helps.

 

[65535]

You can get someone here to bore it out for you. I would recommend buying a spare, because under warranty if they see the boring they may say no, but if you have a spare normal body you can send it in with the light.

 

[cy]

don't use 2x R123 li-ion or you will fry KL4 head again.

do use 17670 and your KL4 will be happy.. no clue if it will fit newer body?

I apologize if this has been covered already.

My L4 recently stopped working and I foolishly sent the whole light to SF for service. They junked the entire light, including my flat sided body, and sent me a replacement. The replacement works great, except that the inner bore is now 17.0 mm whereas it used to be closer to 17.2 mm. Doesn't sound like much but it's just enough to prevent the use of Pila cells in the L4 body.

Here is what the service department wrote back to me:

Don't get me wrong, I am grateful they replaced the light even though its use was outside of what was covered by warranty. SF has always gone above and beyond. Unfortunately, this slipstreamed change which makes SF123 cells less likely to rattle also renders it incapable of accommodating a common 2x123 replacement LiIon.

I've owned 5 different L4s since 2003 and none have just stopped working. IMO, the failure of this particular KL4 was due to whatever inside it started rattling around just prior to it going dark.

So, I guess I'm wondering if anyone else out there puts their L4 to hard use (2-3+ full LiIon cycles per week) and if their lights have failed in this manner.

What are our options? Is there a 2x123-sized LiIon cell that will fit in the new narrow bore bodies? I guess the other option is to get a machinist to take 0.2 mm out of the ID.

Wilkey

 

[Tuna]

AW' s Protected 14670 batteries should work. That is what I use for the narrow SF L2. Since his battery is smaller than the 17670 it will not last as long but it's still guilt free lumens. Hope that helps!

 

[Ginseng]

don't use 2x R123 li-ion or you will fry KL4 head again.

I've never used 2 x R123 in an L4. I know that this is a no-no from back when I was active here on CPF. I should have been more clear.

Long John,
Could you point me to where I can pick up an 18650 body? I went looking for the Aleph 2x123 body but the Sandwich Shoppe didn't have them last time I looked.

Who and Tuna,
Where can one get the 17670 and is the fact that they are unprotected a problem? I often ran my Pilas to the first sign of dimming and then throw them in the charger. In this case, I was counting on the circuitry to prevent overdischarge.

Thanks for the replies, guys.

Wilkey

 

[supes]

Yeah, 2 X RCR123a is a no-no. Instant hunk of useless metal. I've used AW 17670 protected cells in my L4 back to back and its still performing with no hiccups(knock on hard 4X4). For one month, I was switching out 17670 after 17670 in my L4 because I was using it so much. That week along made it worth it for rechargeables. I would have used up a whole box of SF CR123a batteries.

Thank god for rechargeables!

I think the 18650 bodies are about to be available by Mirage Man, I'm not sure of the status though. Can't wait! More runtime and guilt-free lumens! :rock:

 

[Long John]

Wilkey, member "Leef" or "Mirage Man" makes them.

Best regards

____
Tom

 

[Bullzeyebill]

Hi Wilkey, sorry to hear that L4's have been set up that way. PK should have given us a 'heads up". By all means do a search for Mirage Man. Sometimes you can find Tranquillity Base E series 18650 bodies on b/s/t, or custom sales. I ran them with my KL4 heads when I had KL4's. Your KL4 head should be pumping out prettty good lumens compared to your older model. Good luck.

Bill

 

[VWTim]

This drives me crazy too. I just bought an L4 a few weeks ago and it doesn't fit the AW 17670's. Luckily my E2E body barely fits them when the sticker label is removed. I am considering having a machinist buddy bore out the last ~10mm of the tube.

 

[Patriot]

So.........did you exceed 6.0 volts or not?

If Surefire is suggesting that a pair of 3.0 volt rechargeables led to the failure of your L4, that's silly.

Why don't they just say, "dear customer we're warranting these L4s by the hundreds and we're really not sure why it's happening.

My L4 started rattling and then died. My friend's L4 just died, and a guy's L4 at work is dimming to about 15 lumens with new surefire batteries. It took over 4 months for them to replace mine. My friend is still waiting after 3 months and my co-worker hasn't sent his in yet because of the wait I had to endure. It's his only flashlight and figures that 15 lumens is better than nothing. None of us have ever used rechargeables.

 

[Ginseng]

Supes,
I hear you. I've chewed through 4 of the Pila and TW 168S cells. Unfortunately, just bought three more anticipating usage in heavy rotation and, well, you know the rest.

Longjohn and Bill,
Thanks for the head's up on Mirage_Man. I'll see if I can hop on that build. The new KL4 head is amazing. I measured 2,400 lux against another very bright KL4 that hit only 1,680 lux. Brightness and tint are absolutely crushing compared to KL4 from 2 and 3 years ago even taking into account the lumen maintenance issue.

VWTim,
Going to a machinist would be a option. I'd know enough to only send in the head next time...if there is a next time. I don't suppose there'll be a four-die Cree LED like the LuxV. That would be totally mental.

Wilkey

 

[Ginseng]

LOL at their comment about rechargeable lithiums leading to failure. How stupid! Why don't they just say, "dear customer we're warranting these L4s by the hundreds and we're really not sure why it's happening. To suggest that you hurt it with rechargeables while L4s are dieing left and right is just silly.

My L4 started rattling and then died. My friend's L4 just died, and a guy's L4 at work is dimming to about 15 lumens with new surefire batteries. It took over 4 months for them to replace mine. My friend is still waiting after 3 months and my co-worker hasn't sent his in yet because of the wait I had to endure. It's his only flashlight and figures that 15 lumens is better than nothing. None of us have ever used rechargeables.

So.........did you exceed 6.0 volts or not?

If Surefire is suggesting that a pair of 3.0 volt rechargeables led to the failure of your L4, that's silly.

Why don't they just say, "dear customer we're warranting these L4s by the hundreds and we're really not sure why it's happening.

My L4 started rattling and then died. My friend's L4 just died, and a guy's L4 at work is dimming to about 15 lumens with new surefire batteries. It took over 4 months for them to replace mine. My friend is still waiting after 3 months and my co-worker hasn't sent his in yet because of the wait I had to endure. It's his only flashlight and figures that 15 lumens is better than nothing. None of us have ever used rechargeables.

Patriot,
That's shocking. Scandalous.

No 6V+. I've only ever used the SF123 or Pila 168S.

Funny how making something better for one condition can totally skunk it for another.

Wilkey

 

[Patriot]

I made a correction to my post above, so it's quoted incorrectly now Ginseng...oops.

But yeah, if you didn't exceed 6.0 volts then they shouldn't suggest that rechargeables alone wrecked your light. Just my opinion.

 

[cy]

wilkey, it'd be much easier to sell your new L4 body. then do a WTB old style L4 or E2E body. much easier than machining...

 

[who]

Here it is:

http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2572

The way you use it as described, I would not worry. These batteries have been great so far, in many flashlights, not just the L4s.

On a different note, the new L4s are definitely brighter than my older L4s. I would say closer to 120 lumens. The new L4 is brighter than all of my Cree lights (7 of them) and K2. I modified one light with a Seoul, driven at ~1A, and it is almost as bright as the new L4. You should be happy with your new L4.

 

[Ginseng]

Cy,

I'll try that. I do see that another ISO old style tube did not draw any responses.

Wilkey

 

[Heck]

I'm not surprised about this. If you look in the jeers section u can see my post on surefire, it regards a L4. I think CS also tells a bunch of crap in which I caught them doing that to me 3 times....

 

[Art Vandelay]

The newest Pila Cells will fit. They were put on a diet so they can fit in the new Surefires. Surefire probably gets lights back all the time that have been blown by two 3.7 rechargeables. The new thinner battery tubes make the new Surefires more "idiot proof".

I apologize if this has been covered already.

My L4 recently stopped working and I foolishly sent the whole light to SF for service. They junked the entire light, including my flat sided body, and sent me a replacement. The replacement works great, except that the inner bore is now 17.0 mm whereas it used to be closer to 17.2 mm. Doesn't sound like much but it's just enough to prevent the use of Pila cells in the L4 body.

Here is what the service department wrote back to me:

Don't get me wrong, I am grateful they replaced the light even though its use was outside of what was covered by warranty. SF has always gone above and beyond. Unfortunately, this slipstreamed change which makes SF123 cells less likely to rattle also renders it incapable of accommodating a common 2x123 replacement LiIon.

I've owned 5 different L4s since 2003 and none have just stopped working. IMO, the failure of this particular KL4 was due to whatever inside it started rattling around just prior to it going dark.

So, I guess I'm wondering if anyone else out there puts their L4 to hard use (2-3+ full LiIon cycles per week) and if their lights have failed in this manner.

What are our options? Is there a 2x123-sized LiIon cell that will fit in the new narrow bore bodies? I guess the other option is to get a machinist to take 0.2 mm out of the ID.

Wilkey