M3 + M6 question

[CQB]

sorry if this is covered elsewhere, couldnt find the info.

I've been using my M6 on shift with lots of satisfaction. Been using the LOLA M3T bulb MN15 for extended runtime.

I just acquired the M3. I thought I could then configure the M3T when I wanted a slimmer light for whatever reason. I then placed the M3 bezel onto the M6 body, and used the HOLA MN11 and WOW! Instant SUN! (fyi the stock LOLA bulb for my M3 was DOA and this unit was new in box. @#$!)

Has anyone used either the MN10 or MN11 with the 6 cell M6 body? I am *hoping* this is ok wiht the bulbs and that I would get longer runtimes. From previous info I've read I thought the 6 cells in the M6 are configured in a *parallel* setup so thats why we're able to use the M3T bulbs with the 6 cell M6.

Anyway, yeah if anyone's used the M3 bulbs with the M6 body I'd be very interested to hear yoru experiences.

Cheers
CQB

ps. the wife commented that thsi config (M3 bezel + M6 body) looked like a (*ahem*) dildo. Wow.

 

[flash_bang]

ummmmmm, yeah…
One time I got that type of reply from one of my HS friends…
yeaaaaaaaaaah, we didn't talk much for a couple days after that :sigh:
anywho, sorry if this is more off topic than that above, but I was wondering how much more focused the beam is with the turbohead than with the I guess, "stock" head.
Thanks!
Flash

 

[CQB]

'HS friends' ?

no worries, the TurboHead (TH) puts out a really tight beam compared to the stock M3 head. The TH's beam gives a really tight hotspot with some spill while the stock head gives a larger hotspot, somewhat oval actually (which i dont mind) and therefore has less throw but more 'flood' qualities when used close-quarters and medium range. The stock head REALLY lights up a room when used indoors for instance, while the TH can throw a nice tight hotspot from my upstairs bedroom into the inside of my car parked outside.

from my experience, as always, the bestest lights for throw are true spotlights. But the TH's from SureFire, for example, are a nice substitute when we want a much smaller form factor than the larger spotlight. The TH's dont throw as well as a true spotlight of course, but they work in a pinch.

a very unscientific comparison is my shining both types of bezels at my ceiling from the same distance. The TH's hotspot (using LOLA MN15) is tighter than the larger hotspot of the stock M3 bezel (using HOLA MN11) which to my guestimation is about 5-6 times larger than the TH's hotspot. So for longer ranges the tighter TH hotspot is more precise while the stock beam is more broad at closer ranges. Sorry, no pics...

 

[flash_bang]

I see. "HS" stands for high school
anywho,
HAGO,
Flash

 

[Size15's]

Firstly, the MN10/MN11 lamp assemblies are not designed to be powered by the M6's six SF123A batteries. The MN11 may well work but there is no support from SureFire in the event it explodes (the same goes for the MN15/MN16 btw)

As for the difference the TurboHead makes:

MN11 ('M3' bezel)

MN16 ('M3T' "Millennium TurboHead" bezel)

And these photos by Shelby Chan show that the MN10 & MN15, and the MN11 & MN16 are the same bulbs.

 

[CQB]

much appreciated for your info Al! And thanks for the pics too!! I know its a risk using the config I'm asking about. And to be honest I am more fascinated with the 'looks' of the M3 bezel on the M6 body than anything else..! It just looks so *different* - definitely not a flashlight anyone at MY work has ever seen before!!

anyone else out there (brave/crazy enough to) have experience using the M3 with either the MN10,MN11 bulbs with the M6 body..?

 

[CQB]

here are pics of my M3 bezel on the M6 body...

in real life the M3 bezel doesnt look so narrow on the thick M6 body, it looks more balanced, IMO. And again, using the M3's HOLA MN11 I get a crazy amount of output for close to medium ranges - used with great success on night shifts to inspect vehicles and the driver & passengers, etc...

 

[mdocod]

The MN11 driven by an M6 pack would be darned bright, as you have already seen... But the bulb life would be hard to predict.....

The MN11 is about a 6.6V @ 2.5A (16.5W) ~375 bulb lumen lamp when driven on 3xCR123s. When driven by a M6 pack, it's seeing more like 7.3V @ 2.65A, (19.3W) ~500+ bulb lumen....

We routinely overdrive the P91, MN11, and MN16 in this manner when we run them on li-ion cells, and the lamps hold up pretty well... But on CR123s, I wouldn't want to do this... I'll *try* to explain why:

When driving SF HOLA lamps (running at 2.5A drain on a cell), CR123s all have one very predictable behavior: They IMMEDIATELY sag to about 2.25V, holding around that voltage for the first few minutes (sometimes as they heat up they might "spike" up to around 2.35V for a moment), then steadily begin to decline. Somewhere around 15-25 minutes they fall on their face... This CR123 behavior is what the HOLA lamps were designed around. They designed a lamp that would have a good long service life at 6.6V.

Now.... Here's where problems come into play.. When CR123s are delivering more "normal" loads. Like up to around 1.5A, they have a bizarre characteristic that has to be dealt with in bulb design. Rather than immediately sag to a particular voltage under a load, they tend to deliver darn near 3V per cell fresh out of the package for the first few seconds or so, then sag to about 2.5V. The problem with this, of course, is that rather than only overdriving to around ~7.3V, it's possible for the M6 pack to momentarily deliver more like 8.5+V to a MN11/MN16... It settles to about 2.5V per cell within a few seconds, but that initial spike has to be dealt with... LOLA lamps have to deal with that, so they have a design voltage of about 7.5V, but can handle overdrive momentarily up to around 9V without instakabooming.

The MN10 and MN15 are really more tolerant to being driven by an M6 pack, still being overdriven, but they are already designed to be able to tolerate the initial spikes.

 

[CQB]

thanks MDOCOD!! Although you lost me at "I'll try to explain why" =) I am taking your info seriously. Will change out the MN11 with a MN10 for the M3 bezel. I dont want a mishap to occur while on shift (or off shift for that matter!).

but yeah for what its worth we get CRAZY output from the MN11 powered by 6 x 123s..! =) Ah well....

is there another higher output bulb that could tolerate the power of 6 primary cells..? Maybe something from Lumens Factory..?

 

[mdocod]

The LumensFactory HO-M3, EO-M3, HO-M3T, and EO-M3T, should theoretically work on an M6 pack with a better survivability rating than the MN11/MN16... but bulb life will still be reduced... I think Mark@LumensFactory has sort-of informally given the go-ahead for these lamps to be used in the M6, but I don't think it is "supported" so to speak... so premature failures will be the responsibility of the buyer.

The HO-M3 in a M3 bezel would be about 30% brighter than a MN10, the EO-M3, about 60% brighter. The HO-M3T in the KT4 heat (M6 head) would as bright as the EO-M3, but more focused, and the EO-M3T would be really insane, nearly as intense as the MN11/MN16 in this overdriven application, but with a slightly better buffer zone of survivability (higher design voltage of 7.2V should allow it to survive the M6 pack a little better)...

The HO-M3 in a M3 bezel on the M6 would take the smallest "hit" in the bulb life area of the bunch. Still reduced, but probably the most reliable, Very similar bulb life as a MN10 or MN15 in this application...

Having said all that...

Have you considered converting to li-ion rechargeable cells..??

You could run the new LumensFactory HO-M6R lamp, which is a "13V" lamp (10.8V design voltage, 2.1A, 700 bulb lumen, 30 hour life)... It's designed to be run in an M6 loaded with RCR123s. It's brighter than an MN20, not quite as bright as a MN21, but a great compromise overall, about 30 minutes runtime.

 

[CQB]

li-ion rechargeable cells? as in R123's..? Six of them? I didnt know we could even DO that with the M6 battery magazine. Are the ones you recommend protected R123s or unprotected R123s? Any good online vendors for such cells?

Man the stuff we can do nowadays!! A rechargeable option for the M6..?!?! Shows me what I miss for not being around as often as before!

 

[cfromc]

AW sells R123s @ 750mAh and they should fit just fine. If I had an M6 I'd seriously consider doing that.

 

[mdocod]

yep, 6 R123s...

I ran an interest thread on a "13V" style lamp for SF turbo heads awhile back, had a fair number of respondents, Mark over at LumensFactory took the hint and went for it.... So now we have a bulb specifically designed for the M6 on R123s, also great for 3x17670 configurations in SF bodies with extenders, and 3x18650 configurations with bored bodies or a 3x18650 leefbody.

The nice thing about this new HO-M6R lamp, is that it *probably* lights up on *most* protected RCR123s in an M6 (draws about 1.05A per cell). But as it stands now, AW has the most favorable protection circuit for incandescent applications in his protected R123s; As they have a higher current threshold, so they don't require double-taps and such.

I always recommend protected cells and configurations that support them.

 

[batman]

As you know the MN10 is the SAME lamp assembly as the Mn15 only it's shorter. (cause it has to fit in regular SF M3 bezel.) The MN11 is the same as the MN16 only it too is shorter for use in the SF regular m3 bezel.
You probably should be using the MN15 in your setup so you'd then have the exact same setup as the X-LOLA , only you've got an M3 bezel on the M6 with output geared better for close, medium range work. I hope that clears it up. That's a good idea.