M61HOT v2

etc

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Yes, the Hound dog can take it, but the hound dog is also MUCH bigger of a light. Due to size and weight they really aren't in the same category in my opinion.

The modlite is appealing because I can place it in my pocket and almost forget its there. I absolutely cannot do that with a hound dog. The hound dog (for me) is either a bed-side light for a bump in the night, or a truck light. But I'm not carrying that in my pocket or even on my belt for that matter.

Also, as far as sustainability goes, I have seen the modlite 18650 tested recently and it is able to sustain most of its output/lux for the first 5-7ish minutes from turning the light on. Once you hit the 10 minutes mark you are at about half the stated output, it seems to settle there, and is able to sustain that output for most of the remainder of the battery life. This is more then acceptable for me, because generally I'll use my light for about 3-5 minutes MAX before I turn it off and have my task accomplished.

Have you even seen the 18650 Hound Dog?
Gene is terrible with the naming convention but basically it's a MD2 (1x18650) with the full size Hound Dog head. Should have named it something else as it leads to confusion. It's not much bigger than Surefire 6P and yes you can EDC it. I did at one point until my posterity, being so impressed with it, wanted it for himself and took it. I already had 2 full size Hound Dogs and decided I don't need 2 18650 HD in the family. The MD4 Hound Dog is hard to EDC but the MD2 one disappears in the pocket. It's compact.
It's a thrower and the only light that evokes OMG ever time I use it. Made me realize anything P60 sized is dead.

Translation: Modlite like many cheaper lights which advertise xxxx lumens do not deliver because after a few minutes the output is dethrottled to sustainable levels. Therefore the stated figure is meaningless and cannot be compared to Malkoff numbers.
Surefire does it too with its Fury. Malkoff Hound Dogs, etc all sustain the stated output, because they are fully heat sinked and fully potted- that's why they are so heavy. I want heavy because I want a real heatsink. So to translate the above, a modlite is a 700 lumen light, if that given sustainable operation beyond 3 minutes because it's not properly heatsinked.
Not only that I will go on a limb here and state that long-term reliability will suffer as well. LEDs don't like heat.
Cheap chinesium lights with inflated lumens will deliver them for a few minutes with a reduced lifetime. That's how they sell them.
Frankly I do not even believe the advertised lumens anymore unless the source is reliable.
Let's not go into the return policy either.
Once you compare a disasembled SF next to a Malkoff, the above point becomes eye-opening.

Malkoff's lights are a performance bargain.
His lumens are at a sustainable performance level and he strikes just the right balance between output and runtime. There is now way to have a super high output device by any brand without paying a penalty in drastically reduced runtime.
There is no free lunch and it's just Physics 101.
If I want max throw, I will grab Hound Dog Super with 1400 lumens. It's runtime is not great with 2 cells but more reasonable with 3.
One of these Hound Dog is what I would take if my life depended on it.
 

Lights and Guns

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Have you even seen the 18650 Hound Dog?
Gene is terrible with the naming convention but basically it's a MD2 (1x18650) with the full size Hound Dog head. Should have named it something else as it leads to confusion. It's not much bigger than Surefire 6P and yes you can EDC it. I did at one point until my posterity, being so impressed with it, wanted it for himself and took it. I already had 2 full size Hound Dogs and decided I don't need 2 18650 HD in the family. The MD4 Hound Dog is hard to EDC but the MD2 one disappears in the pocket. It's compact.
It's a thrower and the only light that evokes OMG ever time I use it. Made me realize anything P60 sized is dead.

Translation: Modlite like many cheaper lights which advertise xxxx lumens do not deliver because after a few minutes the output is dethrottled to sustainable levels. Therefore the stated figure is meaningless and cannot be compared to Malkoff numbers.
Surefire does it too with its Fury. Malkoff Hound Dogs, etc all sustain the stated output, because they are fully heat sinked and fully potted- that's why they are so heavy. I want heavy because I want a real heatsink. So to translate the above, a modlite is a 700 lumen light, if that given sustainable operation beyond 3 minutes because it's not properly heatsinked.
Not only that I will go on a limb here and state that long-term reliability will suffer as well. LEDs don't like heat.
Cheap chinesium lights with inflated lumens will deliver them for a few minutes with a reduced lifetime. That's how they sell them.
Frankly I do not even believe the advertised lumens anymore unless the source is reliable.
Let's not go into the return policy either.
Once you compare a disasembled SF next to a Malkoff, the above point becomes eye-opening.

Malkoff's lights are a performance bargain.
His lumens are at a sustainable performance level and he strikes just the right balance between output and runtime. There is now way to have a super high output device by any brand without paying a penalty in drastically reduced runtime.
There is no free lunch and it's just Physics 101.
If I want max throw, I will grab Hound Dog Super with 1400 lumens. It's runtime is not great with 2 cells but more reasonable with 3.
One of these Hound Dog is what I would take if my life depended on it.
In response to a few of your points.
1) I do own a few malkoff lights, including the Hound Dog Super light. Which is big and zero chance of edcing with the 2x18650 config. (Even with a smaller body the head is just too big for edc) -- I know the other heads are smaller then this one, but still a bit too large for it to be comfortable to carry.
2) I totally agree with you when you say that malkoff sustains its stated output, hence why Gene rates his lights considerably lower than modlite rated their lights.
3) I disagree with you trying to say that modlite is a "cheap" brand of light, as they are fully potted, and quite honestly seem to be good quality or at least the ones I've been using have been holding up quite well. Also, their customer service is phenomenal. The lights are 100% covered for life, you don't even need to have proof of purchase for them to help you out.
4) I also disagree with you insinuating that the modlite LED is likely to burn out just because of the higher output level, that's been a non issue for me at least, I've been running a modlite at work for the past 4 years. It's been dropped, been left out in the elements, including rain and snow/ice and it keeps on working, and a sidenote I really don't baby my gear, these things are tools and I use them as such. Also, the company has been around for 5+ years now, and I'm decently active in the community, and have never heard or seen anybody posting about their LED burning out once. Has it happened? Possibly for sure, but I havn't seen it, meaning its not likely an issue in general.
5) I disagree with you saying the modlite steps down to 700 lumens, after 3 minutes. I've seen 2 charts from 2 different guys and It's more like after 5 1/2 -6 minutes that it settles at about 700 lumens. -- For my specific needs with a flashlight such as this, work related. I am 80-90% of the time done with my light within 3-5 minutes. -- So basically for all intensive purposes, and for my needs when I reach for my light I have 100% of it's capabilities for the duration that I need it for. So for me, this isn't a 700 lumen light, because 80-90% of the time I am finished with it before it starts stepping down. (This may not be the case for everyone obviously, but for myself it is) So I view this light as max output and stronger then most of whats on the market, for the entire duration of when I need it to light everything up for me. In a small as can be package. Without weighing myself down, or taking up too much space in my pockets or on my belt.
6) This is the biggest point I'll make. Lately I've been using the smaller 18650 Modlite head, attached to a HOG body (21700 battery) via an adapter modlite sell. This has been a game-changer and completely changes our conversation I believe as well.

--> Due to the fact that It's MARGINALLY larger then the 18650 version, but honestly barely noticeable in hand or in pocket. Upgrading to a 21700 from an 18650 allows my PLH-v2 to run for 5 hours instead of just 1 hour 15 minutes like with an 18650. (So thats a HUGE improvement alone). The 21700 battery running the smaller light head also means that it is actually sustaining the max output for a longer period of time then the 5 1/2 -6 minutes that the 18650 is able to sustain the max output for. I'm not 100% sure on when it starts stepping down with the 21700, and what it steps down too but I'll be working on finding that out.

--> Lastly, I have also noticed using the smaller head on the 21700 body the light gets significantly less hot (actually not hot at all) vs the 18650 which does get quite warm while running for extended period of time. Heat is a non-issue running it on the 21700 body.

All in all, I cant really see myself opting to carry the modlite with an 18650 body anymore. I haven't ever since receiving the 21700 body / adapter. This setup is perfect for my needs. I carry 1 addition battery in my bag at work, and have 10 hours worth of light which is far beyond what I need while working.
 

Lights and Guns

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I_do_not_believe_this.gif
Either number.
I agree, I also believe they are a bit exaggerated due to the marketing world. With that said, from what I've seen online (from guys who've tested the lights) They should be coming in around 1,000-1,050 lumens at turn on. Which is still solid.

I've been trying to figure out a way to get myself an output testing device setup at home. After delving down a rabbit hole it seems most available set-up's are quite inaccurate and not worth pursuing unless you have mega bucks to spend.

With all of that said. I do enjoy malkoff lights and am not knocking them in any way.

For my needs at work, over the past 3-4 years I've carried both modlite and malkoff. For all the reasons I mentioned above, the modlite seems to win out, and the malkoff generally stays in my bag as a back up, or at my bed side for bumps in the night.

With that said, I do love lights, and may go ahead and grab the hound dog set-up you are speaking of and see what I think of it in person!
Thanks for the idea. :)

***ETC: I shot you a PM, please take a look and let me know, thanks!***
 
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thermal guy

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In response to a few of your points.
1) I do own a few malkoff lights, including the Hound Dog Super light. Which is big and zero chance of edcing with the 2x18650 config. (Even with a smaller body the head is just too big for edc) -- I know the other heads are smaller then this one, but still a bit too large for it to be comfortable to carry.
2) I totally agree with you when you say that malkoff sustains its stated output, hence why Gene rates his lights considerably lower than modlite rated their lights.
3) I disagree with you trying to say that modlite is a "cheap" brand of light, as they are fully potted, and quite honestly seem to be good quality or at least the ones I've been using have been holding up quite well. Also, their customer service is phenomenal. The lights are 100% covered for life, you don't even need to have proof of purchase for them to help you out.
4) I also disagree with you insinuating that the modlite LED is likely to burn out just because of the higher output level, that's been a non issue for me at least, I've been running a modlite at work for the past 4 years. It's been dropped, been left out in the elements, including rain and snow/ice and it keeps on working, and a sidenote I really don't baby my gear, these things are tools and I use them as such. Also, the company has been around for 5+ years now, and I'm decently active in the community, and have never heard or seen anybody posting about their LED burning out once. Has it happened? Possibly for sure, but I havn't seen it, meaning its not likely an issue in general.
5) I disagree with you saying the modlite steps down to 700 lumens, after 3 minutes. I've seen 2 charts from 2 different guys and It's more like after 5 1/2 -6 minutes that it settles at about 700 lumens. -- For my specific needs with a flashlight such as this, work related. I am 80-90% of the time done with my light within 3-5 minutes. -- So basically for all intensive purposes, and for my needs when I reach for my light I have 100% of it's capabilities for the duration that I need it for. So for me, this isn't a 700 lumen light, because 80-90% of the time I am finished with it before it starts stepping down. (This may not be the case for everyone obviously, but for myself it is) So I view this light as max output and stronger then most of whats on the market, for the entire duration of when I need it to light everything up for me. In a small as can be package. Without weighing myself down, or taking up too much space in my pockets or on my belt.
6) This is the biggest point I'll make. Lately I've been using the smaller 18650 Modlite head, attached to a HOG body (21700 battery) via an adapter modlite sell. This has been a game-changer and completely changes our conversation I believe as well.

--> Due to the fact that It's MARGINALLY larger then the 18650 version, but honestly barely noticeable in hand or in pocket. Upgrading to a 21700 from an 18650 allows my PLH-v2 to run for 5 hours instead of just 1 hour 15 minutes like with an 18650. (So thats a HUGE improvement alone). The 21700 battery running the smaller light head also means that it is actually sustaining the max output for a longer period of time then the 5 1/2 -6 minutes that the 18650 is able to sustain the max output for. I'm not 100% sure on when it starts stepping down with the 21700, and what it steps down too but I'll be working on finding that out.

--> Lastly, I have also noticed using the smaller head on the 21700 body the light gets significantly less hot (actually not hot at all) vs the 18650 which does get quite warm while running for extended period of time. Heat is a non-issue running it on the 21700 body.

All in all, I cant really see myself opting to carry the modlite with an 18650 body anymore. I haven't ever since receiving the 21700 body / adapter. This setup is perfect for my needs. I carry 1 addition battery in my bag at work, and have 10 hours worth of light which is far beyond what I need while working.
"Upgrading to a 21700 from an 18650 allows my PLH-v2 to run for 5 hours instead of just 1 hour 15 minutes like with an 18650"
That doesnt sound possible. Going from a 3500 mah to a 5000 mah shouldn't make that much of a difference?
 

Lights and Guns

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"Upgrading to a 21700 from an 18650 allows my PLH-v2 to run for 5 hours instead of just 1 hour 15 minutes like with an 18650"
That doesnt sound possible. Going from a 3500 mah to a 5000 mah shouldn't make that much of a difference?

Honestly I agree with you and that was my thought exactly when I first read it.

I also should say that I havn't tested that myself.

With that said It's obviously not going to be anywhere near the max output for that duration. I also don't know what output it settles at for the majority of the battery life.

But as far as the website states, its 5 hours with the PLH-v2 head and 6 hour with the OKW head.

Also, even if it did fall short of the companies claims. Lets say by ... 2 hours even?

I'm still getting 3 hours of runtime instead of 1 hour 15 minutes. Still more then double, which I'd still be happy with, and it'd warrant the little extra size 21700 brings.
 

etc

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The era of the 18mm cell is slowly being replaced by the era of the 21mm Li-Ion cell, and once 21mm cells become common, bodies common and available I will transition to the 21mm cell bodies. 1, 2 and even 3 cell bodies are needed. Malkoff has 1x21mm body available but I am interested in the 2 cell body so I am waiting. Aftermarket needs to make bodies also. Much like FiveMega and Leef did 15 years ago.

A 21mm light is very marginally larger than a 18650 light but offers about 5,000 mAh capacity versus about 3,000 mAh capacity for 19mm cells. Not a huge increase but noticeable and in a 2-cell body it will become even more evident.
 

Lights and Guns

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I'm considering getting the larger body with the OKW head with adapter. Are there pocket clips that will work with the larger body?

Yes, they make the switchback in a larger size, so it fits the 21700 body. This is the clip. It's got the finger ring for retention… with that said if you didn't want the finger ring on it, it shouldn't take too long to get some tools out and modify it by making 1 cut at the top of the ring, and boom no more ring. (The bottom of the ring isn't fixed, it can come off without having to cut it off)

I wouldn't hesitate in buying the adapter and 21700 body. I love running the light this way. Very comfortable in hand, and also not too big / heavy.
 

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NH Lumens

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As you know Malkoff makes a 1-cell 21700 body, but the proprietary tailcap kills it for me. I would have preferred it equipped with the standard MDx/6P tailcap threading and change the cell by removing the head - just like the SF E-series lights.

At least for me, the tailcap design and switch operation is an important part of the overall ergonomics of the light, especially one intended primarily for SD applications.
 

thermal guy

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As you know Malkoff makes a 1-cell 21700 body, but the proprietary tailcap kills it for me. I would have preferred it equipped with the standard MDx/6P tailcap threading and change the cell by removing the head - just like the SF E-series lights.

At least for me, the tailcap design and switch operation is an important part of the overall ergonomics of the light, especially one intended primarily for SD applications.
The design of the switch/tail on the 21700 tube might be due to the fact that gene has commented that he is working on an extension for it to make it a 2X 21700. You ever notice how many threads there are on it. And fine threads as well. Here's to hoping.
 

NH Lumens

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M61HOT v.2 Run Time Test

The regulation in this module is quite good. Starting with a fully-charged Orbtronic H-IMR 18650 3500 mAh flat top cell reading 4.2 volts, the initial lux meter reading calculated out to 650 lumens.

Using 650 lumens as the starting output;
  • The module ran in regulation for over 40 minutes to 602 lumens, at which point output went into a steeper (but steady) decline
  • 20 minutes later at the one hour mark, the module was still producing 525 lumens, at which point the test ended
  • Ending cell voltage = 3.59
  • Maximum bezel temp reached = 124 degrees F.
So after 40 minutes of continuous use, the M61HOT v.2 was still producing over 92% of its initial output, and at one hour over 80% of its initial output on a single 18650.

Not bad!
 
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etc

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so it's brighter than M61 by about 200 lumens but not a quantum leap. Do you think the lux of SHO is higher than M61?
 
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