New Lathe...Changed from PM 1127-VF To a PM1236

[Tekno_Cowboy]

Thanks for the idea of using a lever for the lock instead of a hex bolt. Now I've got more things to buy

I've also replaced the compound lock screws with hex cap screws (on my 8x12), but I used square nuts instead of making special nuts.

This is a little off topic, I suppose, but I've been looking at getting a PM 1127-VF myself as an upgrade to my HF 8x12. I'm wondering, other than the increased size, what made you decide on the 1236 over the 1127-VF?

 

[darkzero]

Thanks for the idea of using a lever for the lock instead of a hex bolt. Now I've got more things to buy

I've also replaced the compound lock screws with hex cap screws (on my 8x12), but I used square nuts instead of making special nuts.

This is a little off topic, I suppose, but I've been looking at getting a PM 1127-VF myself as an upgrade to my HF 8x12. I'm wondering, other than the increased size, what made you decide on the 1236 over the 1127-VF?

I think you did mention the square nuts & I looked for some but couldn't find an appropiate size. I wanted to keep the bolts metric so I didn't have to keep another wrench by the lathe. Same hex key used for the carriage lock was used for the compound screws, same case on the 12X36.

There was a high res picture of the gearbox chart on Quality Machine Tool's site for the 1127-VF (in their image directory). Although it had a quick change gearbox it wasn't as fully changeable as the 12X36 (the 12X36 requires some gear changes too). It was the combination of threads that weren't accessible by changing levers is why I changed my mind. I was tired of changing gears & I wasn't going to buy another lathe where I had to do the same thing for the thread pitch & feed rates I commonly use.

It also has a German spindle mount that is not common in the US. Matt stated he had back plates available for it but there was not one available for a Set Tru & I did not want to have one made. I didn't want to deal with having to get an adapter made everytime I wanted to add another chuck. Alfter playing with American Spindle Nose & Camlock mounts I knew that's what I wanted rather than having to unbolt the chuck.

Those were the main two things that changed my mind. BXA wouldn't fit on it which was no big deal but with BXA now there's a bit more options for tooling available without having to modify holders & tools. Quick release tailstock was a plus, another wrench not needed. And the foot brake is also a nice feature which I'm glad I have now. There are also many variations of the 12X36 so parts & accessories should never be an issue. If I'm going to spend that much on a lathe I might as well get something that I would be happy with.

 

[Tekno_Cowboy]

I've been debating between saving up for the 12x36, or getting the 11x27 and saving up for a bigger lathe.

The 11x27 should be big enough for what I've been doing, and I have access to a sheldon at work that's much bigger if I have need of something bigger while I save up for something in the 14-16" swing range.

On the other hand, for the same money I suppose I might be able to find a used larger lathe in good condition. A very nice clausing just sold for $2200 at an estate sale not far from here.

Thanks for letting me know what made you change your mind, it will really help me with my decision.

 

[precisionworks]

for the same money I suppose I might be able to find a used larger lathe in good condition

A heavily built 14" can be a decent choice, especially if it has a decent low speed (around 50 rpm) and a good top speed (around 2000 rpm). You also get a head stock bore big enough to swallow a D size Mag with room to spare.

The big machine is a royal PITA to horse into the shop, and I wouldn't want to do that again - ever. Wait & get the biggest one that will fit into your shop.

 

[Tekno_Cowboy]

The big machine is a royal PITA to horse into the shop, and I wouldn't want to do that again - ever. Wait & get the biggest one that will fit into your shop.

This brings to mind another big point that I didn't think of earlier. My shop is in my basement, and the biggest lathe I can put down there, even in pieces, is probably a 12x36, due to the weight and not-so-strong stairs. I moved a new 400lb appliance down there about 6 months ago, and it really got the stairs creaking, so I'd rather not push it too much.

What I'll probably do is get the PM 1127-VF (or something very similar) as it's a quite an upgrade over my 8x12, and it requires no improvements to my current work area to use.. As long as it can switch between turning and 20tpi threading without changing any belts or gears manually, it would hold me over for quite a while.

After I get my ground level workshop finished(looking like about 3-5 years down the road at my current pace) I can upgrade to a much larger lathe for the long term, maybe even a CNC machine, if I can justify the cost.

Are there some other good lathes in the $2000 range that would be worth looking at?

 

[alexmin]

I got mine from Fixture Works. They have listed much more of the Kipp products than anyone else.

What is the part number?

Thanks,
Alex

 

[darkzero]

This brings to mind another big point that I didn't think of earlier. My shop is in my basement, and the biggest lathe I can put down there, even in pieces, is probably a 12x36, due to the weight and not-so-strong stairs. I moved a new 400lb appliance down there about 6 months ago, and it really got the stairs creaking, so I'd rather not push it too much.

What I'll probably do is get the PM 1127-VF (or something very similar) as it's a quite an upgrade over my 8x12, and it requires no improvements to my current work area to use.. As long as it can switch between turning and 20tpi threading without changing any belts or gears manually, it would hold me over for quite a while.

After I get my ground level workshop finished(looking like about 3-5 years down the road at my current pace) I can upgrade to a much larger lathe for the long term, maybe even a CNC machine, if I can justify the cost.

Are there some other good lathes in the $2000 range that would be worth looking at?

Into basement, well in that case a 12x36 may be out of the question. It's a 1200lb lathe & even removing components to bring down the weight you may still have a hard time if even possible. I know I wouldn't try. I wouldn't dare try to move this lathe with man power, I used an engine hoist.

For that price new, I think the 1127-VF would still be the best value. I think that's why most people decide to go with Precision Matthews. I did a lot of searching before I made my purchase & nothing beats the value you get for your money for a new lathe & Matt's service is above excellent. I've heard about his great service & I also got it. never had that great of service from any vendor for anything.

What is the part number?

Thanks,
Alex

I used 06430-3103X55 but you may want to check your measurements on your lathe & compare to the part as there may be variances between our lathes even though they are the same model. My lathe has quite of few differences from Will's (wquiles).

 

[Tekno_Cowboy]

After a call to Matt, I found out that, while I'd be getting a big upgrade going to the 1127-VF, it doesn't have quite as good a gearbox as I thought. The one feature I absolutely require on any new lathe I buy will be the ability to change from turning to threading without manually changing gears, and that's just not possible with the 1127-VF.

After careful consideration, I think I should be able to get the 12x36 into the basement, though I'll pretty much have to completely tear it apart to do it. Even then the base will be pretty heavy, so I plan to use a winch and skids to get it down the stairs. (the stairs line up straight with the door to the garage)

I don't suppose anyone has a breakout diagram of the PM 12x36 that could give me an idea of what could or couldn't be removed?

 

[Davo J]

Hi,
The link below might be helpful, we recomended to him not to take the headstock off, which I also recomend it to you.
http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=84377
Dave

 

[65535]

It's tempting to rip the headstock off, the good solid cast iron ones weigh in at well over #100. but getting it realigned would be a nightmare.

 

[Tekno_Cowboy]

Hi,
The link below might be helpful, we recomended to him not to take the headstock off, which I also recomend it to you.
http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=84377
Dave

It's tempting to rip the headstock off, the good solid cast iron ones weigh in at well over #100. but getting it realigned would be a nightmare.

Thanks for the advice! I got the same from Matt

I should be able to get it down using a similar method to the ones in the link. I'm going to have plenty of time to plan for it, and it should go smoothly.

I've also noticed that just about everyone that has one recommends a DRO, and those who don't have one want one, so I'll have to save a bit extra for that. :devil:

 

[precisionworks]

but getting it realigned would be a nightmare.

Probably not

Once the lathe is where it's going to stay, precision level the bed at both ends so that they are within one bubble graduation on a 12" master level (.0005" graduations). Mount a round bar in the chuck, something roughly 2" diameter & easy to cut (1144 or 12L14 are great for this) - 6" needs to project past the chuck jaws, so the bar needs to be at least 8" overall. Don't support the far end of the bar in any way.

Take a clean up cut or two with what ever insert you like, then switch to a sharp, small radius, positive insert and take a skim cut no deeper than .010". Use the slowest feed available on your machine, something around .005" IPR. Mic the chuck end & mic the far end - if the readings are identical the head stock is parallel to the bed.

If the readings differ, set up a dial test indicator on the far end of the bar, loosen the head stock clamping bolts, and set the far end of the bar over .001". Take another .010" deep cut over the 6" bar & mic both ends. Continue setting over the head stock until the bar shows equal readings at both ends.

Factories have all sorts of fancy equipment for this, but even the factory uses the 6" bar test to validate head stock parallelism. It isn't the fastest procedure in the world, but one time is all it takes - unless you pull the head stock again

Before pulling the head stock, scribe a witness mark that is easily found later. That will at least get the procedure started and get the adjustment in the ball park.

 

[Davo J]

Lot's of happy customers with these cheap Sino read outs. One of my DRO's is a Sino and works fine.
2 axis
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/SINO-2-axis-...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33569952c4
3 axis
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220496216879&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
Dave

 

[wquiles]

I've also noticed that just about everyone that has one recommends a DRO, and those who don't have one want one, so I'll have to save a bit extra for that. :devil:

I simply could not, would not, ever use a lathe again without a DRO. I don't think I could even remember how to read/adjust the dials anymore - I would be completely lost

 

[wquiles]

Lot's of happy customers with these cheap Sino read outs. One of my DRO's is a Sino and works fine.
2 axis
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/SINO-2-axis-...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33569952c4
3 axis
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220496216879&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
Dave

+1

My PM1236 lathe I ordered with the 2-axis SINO DRO and glass scales and it has been excellent so far after a year and 1/2 of above-average use for a hobby machine. I already bought, but I have not installed the 3-axis SINO DRO for my milling machine (8x30 Enco knee mill), but I would expect it to also be as nice/reliable, and gadget_lover (Daniel) has the same mill/SINO DRO and he is very happy with his setup.

 

[darkzero]

I simply could not, would not, ever use a lathe again without a DRO. I don't think I could even remember how to read/adjust the dials anymore - I would be completely lost

tsk tsk :tsk:

A machinist should never become to this & should be able to hold a tolerance without a DRO. What were you to do if you had to run another machine?

In shop class the BPs have Mitu DROs & none of the lathes have DROs. I never use the DROs so I can get the experience of jumping on any different brand machine, even with all the crazy backlash I can still turn out a decent part.

I'm just bitching cause I don't have my DRO yet, still saving up for the one I've got my eye on. I'm sure I may forget how to use dials too one day.

 

[65535]

I think you're right on tho Will, in any case a lot of the time with backlash and all that fun stuff taking light passes (milling or turning) and checking the part with a mic is a skill that need not be lost in the machinists world. God knows CNC equipment has been doing will eliminating a lot of machinists.

 

[Tom Anderson]

I'm just bitching cause I don't have my DRO yet, still saving up for the one I've got my eye on. I'm sure I may forget how to use dials too one day.

I thought you were soon going to say you also use a sundial on your wrist!

 

[darkzero]

I thought you were soon going to say you also use a sundial on your wrist!

Only digital I wear is a Xlander military but only on trips to Pismo, a TSAR is what I always wear. But... I was going to say if there's a TA Signature Series Ti Wrist Sundial with tritium markers then I'll take one! But I guess it still wouldn't work work at night. :laughing:

 

[Tom Anderson]

Yeah, you'd need a moon dial for that!

Seriously, I don't know what I'd do without digital electronic gages. My eyes are getting too old to read vernier scales.